david lowery arrested??????

[phskate]

****

[butterfly]

With such a strong family and such caring, your son will be fine. I cried when I read your letter. Tell your son that he has saved many others from suffering.

[Little Bit]

Why are you posting this? What purpose does this serve, except to try to present yourself as such a wonderful, caring mother and asuage your conscience? Poor SON...no wonder he cant 'heal'

Draggin this out in front of strangers constantly your 'personal' letter to him...published for anyone to read such BS. But if he wont seek help, I have to wonder why you, as a mother, doesn't MAKE him go...honestly...the whole ALL needs counseling!

[dbny]

Originally posted by phskate
Just as available as I have tried to make support group numbers and therapists and every other form of help that I could find, but he has to choose to look at them or to talk to them. No matter how much I want him to, he has to be the one to reach out for the help or it will be no help at all.

I know from experience that this is not so. Find a therapist who specializes in helping teenagers who have been molested and insist that your son go. Therapy is difficult even for those with much smaller problems. Adults who have chosen to have therapy often rebel against it because it can be painful. Just as you do not give your children the option to leave school, you cannot give your son the option to refuse professional help.

[Little Bit]

Correction...the whole family need counseling

[butterfly]

Originally posted by Little Bit
Why are you posting this? What purpose does this serve, except to try to present yourself as such a wonderful, caring mother and asuage your conscience? Poor SON...no wonder he cant 'heal'

Draggin this out in front of strangers constantly your 'personal' letter to him...published for anyone to read such BS. But if he wont seek help, I have to wonder why you, as a mother, doesn't MAKE him go...honestly...the whole ALL needs counseling! How cruel you are and how insensitive. You certainly have no answers so why make judgements and give advice when you are obviously not a parent or if you are God bless your offspring. These people are suffering and you think some shrink can solve anything and everything...and oh yes, blame the victim one more time for not accepting counseling. With a lot of love, understanding, time and justice this family will recover. This young man WILL heal and it will be because he has a wonderful sensitive family not some $200 an hour doctor who listens to you talk. I for one am glad they dragged this in front of strangers. It is a lot more important, emotional issue than whether someone has great music for the nationals or who is Sasha Cohen's coach for the week. You owe this family an apology for being so thoughtless and insensitive. On second thought maybe you have loyalties for David Lowery...now there is someone who needs counseling. I would prefer he get it behind bars.

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by butterfly
How cruel you are and how insensitive. You certainly have no answers so why make judgements and give advice when you are obviously not a parent or if you are God bless your offspring. These people are suffering and you think some shrink can solve anything and everything...and oh yes, blame the victim one more time for not accepting counseling. With a lot of love, understanding, time and justice this family will recover. This young man WILL heal and it will be because he has a wonderful sensitive family not some $200 an hour doctor who listens to you talk. I for one am glad they dragged this in front of strangers. It is a lot more important, emotional issue than whether someone has great music for the nationals or who is Sasha Cohen's coach for the week. You owe this family an apology for being so thoughtless and insensitive. On second thought maybe you have loyalties for David Lowery...now there is someone who needs counseling. I would prefer he get it behind bars.

Although this is a very important issue, some things are better left in the family. I fail to see how defending yourself or family on an internet board where all identities are hidden helps this young man get one with his life. It is obvious that many here are friends with PH. Perhaps you all should help her and her family privately rather than bashing anyone who does not agree to prejudge the case.

I, too, have wondered how these emotional posts can help? If PH needs someone to talk to, and many of you are her friends, that talk can be helpful. But some of the responses to anyone not willing to hang and stone the accused has been hateful and it can't possibly be theraputic for PH to read them all. Yet the numbers of readers to this thread is unbelievable!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Our opinions are just that..they are neither right or wrong. I just don't see where these hate emails are helpful. And people don't deserve to be hung over their opinion or have their board membership suspended because of an opinion. Even in Iraq now, people can express their opinion without being crucified!

Now for the record, I do not know either the accused or accuser. I have no reason to defend either position. And I have not defended either side. I just see posts about one side of the story. I've yet to see the other side posted so I cannot form a fair opinion. So I await all information before making up my mind. This board has offered only one side of the story. Now I know many of you will post or pm me about this. But please rememeber, that I am entitled to my opinion too. I'll await the trial and outcome before hanging anyone.

PH, this is a difficult situation for you. I encourage you to get help in real life for you and your son so that you may heal. In February or whenever the trial ends because it's been my experience with the courts that these cases drag on forever, life will go on. Regardless of the ruling, you and your family will have to go on with life. If the decision is guilt, you will still have to put this in perspective and teach your son not let this ruin his life. If the decision does not go as you want it to, you will have to decide what the next step will be. The only thing for certain about this case is that after it is resolved in all courts of law, life for all involved will continue. Life's too short to waste it.

Get help. Yes, counseling is often expensive, but there are many opportunities for help that is free or low cost. Most insurance companies will pay for counseling. Cathlic Social Services provides it on a sliding scale and it is not religious based counseling. Many local government agencies also provide free or sliding scale counseling. Please get professional help for you and your family so you can prepare for the future which will come regardless of the trial outcome.

Good luck to all involved in this case personally.

For the rest of us, though this is a very emotional and important topic, please remember that your words are affecting real people. Even though we may not know who that are in real life, they are real. Please be kind in your posts. We all live on the same earth. As Rodney said, "Can't we all just get along?"

[phskate]

Why? I am not sure. Perhaps I was wrong in posting the letter. Perhaps I have been wrong about many things. I am human. I am mother. I am in pain, and watching my son’s pain. On this board I have been both uplifted and bashed. Perhaps the uplifting is so rare and special that it is enough to make me risk the bashing.
For the record, my son and daughter have seen a therapist, many times. Currently that is not something my son is willing to do. The subject is much more complicated than you realize, but contrary to public opinion, I do not put “everything” on this board.
Yes “we all need counseling”, as does anyone in this situation. I totally agree. It was the second thing that I did after finding out about this situation; take my son to a therapist, less than 24 hours later.
I am not defending myself or my family on this board. I have nothing to defend myself or my son for. He is the ‘victim’, and we have done nothing wrong, other than try to navigate ourselves through this mess. Sure we have made mistakes as we went along. Anyone out there who wishes to critique our actions or our words, walk a mile in my shoes and then see if you still wish to cast stones. It isn’t an easy road and there aren’t any sign posts of etiquette along the way.
The first thread that was opened I didn’t even know about until it was eight pages long. I posted the following on that thread when I found it. I still feel the same way. So I post it here again….

******Webe has emailed to me some of your supportive and positive responses. For which I am eternally greatful. So tonight, I went in search of this forum to read what else was here. This was a forum I didn't even know existed, prior to this situation. I was stunned to see 8 pages of posts about my son's situation. This is, and continues to be a horrible ordeal, which I hope none of you ever have to experience first hand.
I read every post from beginning to end. Some of the comments were painful and some uplifting. I found some disturbing, but for the most part, they were all from people interested in helping. Some of the help was directed toward a coach that they felt might be innocent, some to a skater that might be traumatized, some to family members caught in the fallout, and some to Webe.
What ever your reason for responding I thank you for caring enough to respond. Apathy and lack of concern is what fertilizes the ground from which such perversion and evil springs.
Yes I have done everything that I should have done, in the right order, with the right amount of official action. I continue to work within the system that is in place for everyone to access.*****

For those who have given me kind responses and have been neutral but supportive, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. For those of you who feel a need to lash out at me, and my words, and actions, I apologize if I have offended you in any way. I ask you to think carefully before you type a response, just as you would think carefully if I were in person, standing in front of you.
I have deleted the post of the letter.

[Little Bit]

PH - I am speaking from experience as a mother and a survivor of this same situation. I am not bashing just asking.

[WeBeEducated]

I know the accused(Lowery) extremly well, and the accuser fairly well.
I have seen them both under pressure, in good times and bad.
I have interacted with them at the rink, at special events, and at home.
There is alot more to this story than phskate has ever posted, and some of it is the most hurtful, and most difficult to deal with.

Prior to the allegations I heard only very positive comments about the young man and his family. He was considered friendly, kind, easy going, and intelligent. How odd then, how bizarre that when the allegations became public so many rushed to protect a man they had frequently called "arrogant and deceiving" while doubting the credibility of a young man they had called "friend".
Once he told his story he watched in horror as friends at the rink and parents of skaters turned on him viciously. It was the single most cowardly betrayal I have ever witnessed in my entire life.
In disbelief I heard them attack his character; sarcastically, mockingly, cruelly they invented motives, methods, and means by which he planned to "ruin" the lives of the Lowerys.
Never once did they voice a word of concern or compassion for this young man. The entire group (except for one family) portrayed him suddenly as the enemy, the troublemaker in their pretentious world of skating. He had simply inconvenienced their skating plans, and regardless of what he had endured, he wasnt worthy of their support in that case.
He had done what we all (online)advised him to do! He took a risk, and reported Lowery to the USFSA,and the police. I dont think he ever imagined that he and his family would immediately become outcasts at the rink, but that is exactly what happened.
It was, and continues to be, a shocking emotional assault.
The depth of anger against the young man is equalled by the total acceptance of Lowery's defense:
("the boy is lying")
This enormous loss, this abandonement by friends, is probably more difficult to "heal".
I think it accounts for the lingering depression as much as the physical assault.
I certainly hope that phskate isnt brushed away here by those who are uncomfortable with the raw emotions. She has trusted us with her feelings, not details of her story. I feel honored.

[dbny]

Without saying anything about either party, as I know neither, I have seen firsthand how seemingly level headed people can become vicious and blind to reality when the integrity or motives of a "much needed" coach is questioned. Coaches can wield an inordinate power over their students and students' parents.

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by Little Bit
Why are you posting this? What purpose does this serve, except to try to present yourself as such a wonderful, caring mother and asuage your conscience? Poor SON...no wonder he cant 'heal'

Draggin this out in front of strangers constantly your 'personal' letter to him...published for anyone to read such BS. But if he wont seek help, I have to wonder why you, as a mother, doesn't MAKE him go...honestly...the whole ALL needs counseling!

Originally posted by Little Bit
PH - I am speaking from experience as a mother and a survivor of this same situation. I am not bashing just asking.

I don't usually (and in fact I don't believe I have ever) commented on the nature of someone's post (ok, once - but that was in defense of a bash on me). However, your first post was insensitive and cruel. It also shows a lack of understanding and knowledge of what has been happening in this thread, and the original thread as well. It didn't seem like you were "just asking" to me.

I would suggest that before you open your mouth, so to speak, that you take the time to think about what you are saying. Sure you can have differing opinions - I disagree with several posters here on a variety of issues, however neither I nor they have ever been as insulting in their tone as you were to PH. You have few posts here on this site, and before you post again, you need to realize that a majority of us do not treat each other this way. Please - I hope that you will refrain from further nasty posts and instead try to contribute something worthwhile to this board.

[Little Bit]

My point was made. A post to the boy from his mother in an open forum like this is unnecessary. How can that help him in any way? It will not, it was simply for the mother to gain additional support with such words. She should have been telling him instead of posting where the world could see. When something as terrible as this happens, it needs to be discussed and talked about with the correct people, not the entire free world. The boy will never heal while this is going on. How does this help the him?

I offer no support to the Lowerys, I only offer support for the boy.

[sachelle]

I saw this several times and never read the thread. I assumed it was about someone molesting a child. I read a few of the comments.

I want to tell people firsthand that children very seldom lie about this. No one wants to believe that a parent, brother, teacher, priest,
coach is dysfunctional in a sexual way. Most people can't discuss the subject at all. Imagine when incest is involved?

If Monica had not kept the blue dress, she would have been labeled a liar and a ho, instead of just a ho. I would always take the word of a child over an adult in a case like this. I don't know PH and I'm new to this board, but the fact that she has been traumatized by "telling" as have her children, would make her wish to communicate with anyone and everyone. It is the healthy reaction, rather than bottle it up like many have had to do. Or drinking to ease the pain.

I know someone very ill who was molested by a doctor and other doctors who cared for her said don't tell, you'll get treated like Monica Lewinsky. As is was, this person was a victim of childhood sexual abuse which was buried in her memory til her 20's.

I salute this family for standing up, reporting what a son experienced and backing it up through the courts to get some justice or recognition or money to pay the therapy bills. Many times people are too sick, without health, or family support and $ to see this type or ordeal through. I pray for all the children and adults who will face this trauma.

It is the most under-reported crime, and the APA estimates every 1 in 4 women are molested as children. I know of no studies, tho there could be some about the abuse rates at skating rinks. But all child abuse needs to be punished. I hope God Blesses all the victims of this heinous crime, and that the pedophiles receive justice in due term.

[Little Bit]

If someone was behaving badly.... Momma would say
Do not lower yourself to their level!
Just Consider the source.
Then Kill EM with Kindness

[sachelle]

well?

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by Little Bit
My point was made. A post to the boy from his mother in an open forum like this is unnecessary. How can that help him in any way? It will not, it was simply for the mother to gain additional support with such words. She should have been telling him instead of posting where the world could see. When something as terrible as this happens, it needs to be discussed and talked about with the correct people, not the entire free world. The boy will never heal while this is going on. How does this help the him?

I offer no support to the Lowerys, I only offer support for the boy.

Umm, interesting thought! Mom wanting attention? Perhaps. This not helping the boy? Good chance that's right on.

Which was my point yesterday. This is a terrible situation. I offer no support to anyone abusing anyone, particularly a teenager or a child. (I am correct in thinking the young man in question here is an older teenager and not a small child?)

But at this point, I see one side of the story only. And that is from people who are determined to try this case on the internet. But folks, I doubt the jury will read these posts! I still have no clue if it's true or not true. Time will tell. But if it is true, surely this cannot be helpful to the young man involved.

PH, I read your post about getting help. Get more! You and your son would be much better served that way than by dealing with the emotions of this board. From the volumns of posts from certain people here, you seem to have several friends who are very good at feeding this frenzy. Ask them to help you in real life and time instead of through the facade of the internet. I hope things settle down for you both.

And I hope they close this thread soon! Some of you are just using it to further keep the arguments going. It's so obvious!

[dooobedooo]

1. The best therapy - taking time to organise alternative training and coaching in the area

These skaters need to get together and sort out their skating and coaching requirements asap. It seems the Lowery's are exceptionally good business people, to run their own ice time and build up such a strong user base; not just once, but several times. Someone now needs to focus on getting a similar service up and running so that the skaters have an alternative. Do you have any other rinks/coaches in the area, or could you pursuade the management to let you organise your own training ice time? The best therapy for kids and parents will be to get involved in constructively building a new training framework.


2. Difficulties of taking a stand on moral issues

This thread reminds me just how difficult and perilous it can be, to take a high moral stand on issues. Sometimes the innocent can end up suffering more than the guilty. Some time ago, I was involved in a situation involving serious bullying at work; eventually, we succeeded in exposing the bully, but she was so ingenious and unprincipled at playing off people and situations, that there was an enormous amount of backflow as a result, which was quite damaging to other parties. Unfortunately, this is why so many witnesses dodge such issues, and refuse to confront them, preferring instead the easier route of "voting with their feet" and going elsewhere.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by Little Bit
My point was made. A post to the boy from his mother in an open forum like this is unnecessary. How can that help him in any way? It will not, it was simply for the mother to gain additional support with such words. She should have been telling him instead of posting where the world could see. When something as terrible as this happens, it needs to be discussed and talked about with the correct people, not the entire free world. The boy will never heal while this is going on. How does this help the him?

I offer no support to the Lowerys, I only offer support for the boy.
You may know what helped your child, but you do not know what is helpful to this boy & what is not. Your post was full of presumptions. Some of us have instead chosen to give the benefit of the doubt & be accepting of different preferences in this situation. For instance, I might not post such a letter myself, just as I do not like sappy Hallmark cards with pages of poetry about feelings. But it doesn't mean these things are invalid or can't serve a purpose. Although it wouldn't necessarily be meaningful to me personally, some people are helped by such things. The presumption that it is not in anyway helpful may apply to you personally, but not to phskate or others. Maybe it will be very helpful to him (if not now, 10 yrs from now) to know he got the word out to others & broke the cycle. Maybe it won't. But perhaps that should be his decision, not yours.

SkateFan123, many of us don't know phskate but are familiar with some of the others involved & that's how we arrived at our opinions. We don't need phskate to update the same "proof" you may feel is needed to make a convincing case. There are people from many different backgrounds at skatingforums besides fans & people who know phskate; & not everyone has developed their opinion based only according to what has been posted here in this topic. This is not to say proof is not a good idea, but just to let you know why some of us don't need to see it all in black & white in this particular thread in order to carry on a discussion.

[Poohsk8s2]

I only hope that when all is said and done, that what has been shared by this courageous family registers with some of the more "cavalier" posters on this thread.

This is real life, not just words, not a game to see who can be right. This family has shared the depth of their hurt with those of us who have an interest in the sport. They let us know that there can be horrid people beyond the glitz and glitter, and they have shared the depth of their wounds. They have let us know that this is a crime so distasteful, that friends will turn on friend to deny it's existance.

What a gift this forum has been for all of us who have followed this thread. What a gift to have insight to the raw emotion the family has shared with us... because it is through their courage that we can take their offering and remain vigilant that these crimes will not be tolerated EVER! ... isn't that the purpose of quoting A. Hitler?

Thank-you phSkates and WeBe for educating us, for sharing with us such a difficult experience. I only wish that this thread never HAD to exist. All my prayers are with your families.

[Little Bit]

Originally posted by Poohsk8s2
... isn't that the purpose of quoting A. Hitler?

Actually the point of quoting A. Hitler is for people to notice that
That is the way our country is headed with our present government. The quote sounds like many political leaders in our government and their cabinet members, religious leaders etc.

No matter where or who you are, it is a bad situation, for the family and all involved. I hope everyone here agrees on that.

[jkl]

I saw David Lowery working in Rita's booth in Atlanta. They had some beautifu things but I couldn't bring myself to give them my money.

[peaches]

Originally posted by SkateFan123
Umm, interesting thought! Mom wanting attention? Perhaps. This not helping the boy? Good chance that's right on.

Which was my point yesterday. This is a terrible situation. I offer no support to anyone abusing anyone, particularly a teenager or a child. (I am correct in thinking the young man in question here is an older teenager and not a small child?)

But at this point, I see one side of the story only. And that is from people who are determined to try this case on the internet. But folks, I doubt the jury will read these posts! I still have no clue if it's true or not true. Time will tell. But if it is true, surely this cannot be helpful to the young man involved.

PH, I read your post about getting help. Get more! You and your son would be much better served that way than by dealing with the emotions of this board. From the volumns of posts from certain people here, you seem to have several friends who are very good at feeding this frenzy. Ask them to help you in real life and time instead of through the facade of the internet. I hope things settle down for you both.

And I hope they close this thread soon! Some of you are just using it to further keep the arguments going. It's so obvious!

ITA!! Good post!

[iskater13]

I too saw David Lowery at Nationals and was surprised to see him there.

Oprah had a show on children that were abused by coaches yesterday. Mostly it was about the physical abuse (hitting), good one to catch when they play the reruns.

[backspin]

Also interesting: got my new PSA membership book the other day---he's still listed. :?: :?:

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by backspin
Also interesting: got my new PSA membership book the other day---he's still listed. :?: :?:

We only shoot, hang and behead people in this country AFTER conviction! Why shouldn't he be listed at this point? He's still a USFS member too. As long as he is paying his dues and has not been banned due to a relative conviction he should be eligible for membership.

He is, however, not allowed to be around kids until this case is decided. And given the seriousness of these accusations, that's fair until the case is settled.

Kobe is still walking around and the NBA even allows him to work while awaiting trial. I put his alleged crime right up there with child abuse and support neither but do support his right and this coaches right to live their lives until trial.

And I thank God I live in a country where I can state an opinion without penalty of death. (Although expressing an opinion here puts you at risk for being kicked off the boards.)

PH, time for trial is rapidly approaching. (Unless there's another delay and I hope there isn't.) I hope you and your family are holding up well. Court trials are stressful, to say the least. I think the waiting is a very difficult part of this process. Hang in there!

Edited to add this:
http://www.courtclerk.org/EKASH/rad9E677.pdf

Continuance filed. Don't know if it was granted.

[iskater13]

He is, however, not allowed to be around kids until this case is decided. And given the seriousness of these accusations, that's fair until the case is settled.
If this statement is true, then why was Mr. Lowery working at his skating collectibles booth for days at Nationals 2004. There were hundreds of children at that event and he had direct contact with them by working with Rita selling collectibles.

Thank you for the link to the court document it should be interesting in the next few weeks. I hope all is well with the families that are directly involved and wish you the very best!

[Little Bit]

Possible not working with them means on a one on one basis. Lowery was not alone with the children, he was supervised at the booth at Nationals. His wife Rita was there! I wish I would have had a chance to speak with him..... but I did not attend.

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by iskater13
If this statement is true, then why was Mr. Lowery working at his skating collectibles booth for days at Nationals 2004. There were hundreds of children at that event and he had direct contact with them by working with Rita selling collectibles.

Thank you for the link to the court document it should be interesting in the next few weeks. I hope all is well with the families that are directly involved and wish you the very best!

Since I am not an attorney or involved with any party in this case, all I know is what I read. Since there is an order stating Mr. Lowery can leave the jurisdiction of the court with prior notification to the district attorney, I assume the district attorney was aware that he was in Atlanta. Otherwise, I'm sure that someone would have reported him to the authorities for being out of the area illegally and he'd be facing charges for that too.

I took the order to mean he could not have close contact with children. I doubt many children were alone with him to buy collectibles. Reason and commom sense tell me that anyone walking the streets, malls, going to a movie, restaurant, etc is in some proximity of children. But that is totally different from working closely with children. But who knows what the intent of an order is without asking the judge himself. And I'm certainly not going to do that.

You're welcome for the link but I got it from someone else who posted it awhile back.

[Little Bit]

Originally posted by SkateFan123
.....I doubt many children were alone with him to buy collectibles. Reason and commom sense tell me that anyone walking the streets, malls, going to a movie, restaurant, etc is in some proximity of children. But that is totally different from working closely with children. But who knows what the intent of an order is without asking the judge himself. And I'm certainly not going to do that.

Thank you SkateFan123

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by Little Bit
Thank you SkateFan123

You're welcome. Actually went to read the bond motion.

http://www.courtclerk.org/EKASH/rad6FFEE.pdf

It's language is interesting. The accused was released on his own recognance and is not allowed around children without the present of the child's family member excluding his own family members. I provided the link if you want to see it. So I stand corrected. I previously stated he was not allow around children and that is incorrect.

[phskate]

It's language is interesting. The accused was released on his own recognance and is not allowed around children without the present of the child's family member excluding his own family members. I provided the link if you want to see it. So I stand corrected. I previously stated he was not allow around children and that is incorrect.

Your interpretation is not exactly correct.
The exact wording is as follows:
Defendant shall have no contact with juveniles, except family members. Contact with juvenile family members may take place in the presence of another adult family member.

[IceKween]

I know this seems like a dumb question, but I don't quite understand how a 17 y/o young man can be sexually assaulted by a 72 year old senior citizen? Just using logic I would think that a 17 y/o man could fight off the advances of an elderly man. In most states 17 is the legal consenting age anyway. I would like to really know the facts of this case, unfortunately on this thread we are only getting the 17 y/o young man's side and are villifying this elderly man.

PH are there other family issues here that are now just coming to the surface? I would hope that an elderly man is not going to suffer because of a dysfunctional family's underlying problems.

I am serious and not trying to be nasty, but right now this seems odd to me and I would think any person on a jury in this case. Surely others must be wondering what else is up in this situation.

[dbny]

I've been wondering the same thing too. What I've been thinking is that it is not an equal relationship, as the coach (teacher, boss, etc) can have a significant amout of influence over the student (employee, etc), and it is the influence rather than physical force that would have been used to unfair advantage. It's also possible that the charges stem from actions which started before the student attained a legal age.

[Little Bit]

Originally posted by IceKween
I know this seems like a dumb question, but I don't quite understand how a 17 y/o young man can be sexually assaulted by a 72 year old senior citizen? Just using logic I would think that a 17 y/o man could fight off the advances of an elderly man. In most states 17 is the legal consenting age anyway. I would like to really know the facts of this case, unfortunately on this thread we are only getting the 17 y/o young man's side and are villifying this elderly man.

PH are there other family issues here that are now just coming to the surface? I would hope that an elderly man is not going to suffer because of a dysfunctional family's underlying problems.

I am serious and not trying to be nasty, but right now this seems odd to me and I would think any person on a jury in this case. Surely others must be wondering what else is up in this situation.

IceKween - have an exact account of this family!

[IceKween]

I was not trying to put down the family at all. Other questions I wonder about. Is this young man gay or undecided about his sexuality? What would make a 17 y/o man engage in any kind of sexual activity with an elderly man in his 70s? Physical force doesn't seem to be the reason. "Emotional" force? What kind of family background does the child come from where he would feel "emotionally forced" to do these things with an elderly man? How did this whole situation arise? Was he caught doing these things with Lowery or did he come forward on his own?
I've read numerous teary posts from the mother and to my eyes it seems that PH is a bit of a borderline personality. There is a disconnect for me at least concerning what actually happened versus her seemingly overemotional response to it.

Again, I have no connection to this case on either side, but I am just a bystander having alot of doubts as to what we have been presented here. I am definitely sure that if we were dealing with a teenager and a younger coach, let's say less than 50, I'd be more concerned. But something seems totally off in this case.

I'm not sure that PH's teary overemotional posts here are helping me either. Again, I'm just playing the role of a jury member, devil's advocate if you will. Obviously this has resulted in a great deal of emotional distress and I am sorry for all the parties involved.

[Skatewind]

IceKween, maybe you should review the Ohio law in regard to the abuse of power by a person in a position of influence such as coach, teacher, etc. & you would clearly understand why this person has been charged. The law has nothing to do with the emotional posts by phskate. It's the law. It was enacted for a reason, as was USFSA's policy in this area.

There are very likely some "elderly senior citizens" who have been charged under laws like these who have been preying on those under their influence since long before they ever became senior citizens. The age of the boy may be more significant if he was under age during any of this, but I'm not sure why you believe the age of the defendant would be relevant based on the law.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by phskate
The exact wording is as follows:
Defendant shall have no contact with juveniles, except family members. Contact with juvenile family members may take place in the presence of another adult family member.
That is what I read too. SkateFan123, where did you get your version?

[IceKween]

Skatewind, I have seen Mr. Lowery at several skating events. I suppose the problem I am having is that I do not see him as any kind of physical threat to a grown 17 y/o young man or woman. So maybe Lowery's age doesn't make this whole situation odd to you, but it does to me.
I also think that PH's cries that no one else at the rink is standing up for her or her son is very telling. Maybe they also think something is not right with this picture here. I can't believe that any skate-parents would tolerate wanton sexual assault by a coach with any of the kids. That would never fly at my rink or any other rink I have skated at, and it makes me doubt the validity of PH's posts. From PH's posts I am led to believe that the other parents/skaters don't want to be politically involved for fear of harm to their skaters' careers. I don't buy that. This is a small(ish) town, and these skaters aren't heading to the Olympics. I just don't think the town is that amoral that they would look the other way while children are being sexually assaulted (for the sake of their children's skating careers). I don't buy it.

Something is not right with this whole thread, and I feel that it's because the other side hasn't had it's day.

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by IceKween
I was not trying to put down the family at all. Other questions I wonder about. Is this young man gay or undecided about his sexuality? What would make a 17 y/o man engage in any kind of sexual activity with an elderly man in his 70s? Physical force doesn't seem to be the reason. "Emotional" force? What kind of family background does the child come from where he would feel "emotionally forced" to do these things with an elderly man? How did this whole situation arise? Was he caught doing these things with Lowery or did he come forward on his own?

Talk about blame the victim mentality. Do you think all rape victims were asking for it too? :roll:

Yeah, I know, Lowery hasn't been proven guilty, but he hasn't been proven innocent either. To try and place the blame on the young man before the case has come to trial is, IMO, abhorent. And what relevance does anyone's sexuality have on the case? No wonder people don't want to come forward with legitimate sexual abuse claims.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by IceKween
Something is not right with this whole thread, and I feel that it's because the other side hasn't had it's day.
You can have whatever opinion you want about what is going on at this rink, but it has nothing to do with the law or why this person was charged, or whether there is validity to the law or policy irregardless if the perpetrator is 30 years old or 70 years old. Frankly, I find your posts as speculative as anything else's written here. Like I said previously, if you are questioning why an "elderly man" was charged & is being "villified" (which I thought was your original inquiry), you need go no further than to read & understand the law.

[IceKween]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sk8er1964
>[B]Talk about blame the victim mentality. Do you think all rape >victims were asking for it too? :roll:

Uh, no. I'm sorry you don't find anything odd with a grown 17 y/o man charging some 72 y/o with rape/sexual assault. I do. Especially when this man is not what I envision as a physical threat. What I'm reading here is essentially a huge outcry of "Hang the *******" when all the facts aren't out there and I think that it is wrong.

>Yeah, I know, Lowery hasn't been proven guilty, but he hasn't been >proven innocent either. To try and place the blame on the young man >before the case has come to trial is, IMO, abhorent.

I'm not placing blame on anyone. It takes two people to have sex.

>And what relevance does anyone's sexuality have on the case?

Plenty. Is this young man struggling with his sexuality? Was this a case of a young man confused sexually and making a bad decision that he is now regretting? All of us have made some bad decisions when we were that age. If this man is heterosexual, could he be overly sensitive to being touched by an effeminate elderly man? Is he homophobic? Is he that afraid to be perceived as gay that he would accuse someone of this? Believe me, his sexuality is quite relevant.

>No wonder people don't want to come forward with legitimate sexual abuse claims.

I don't know how to respond to that. I hope that every person who was truly sexually abused comes forward so the perpetrators can be stopped if they feel it is right for them. But I also hope that a jury is open-minded enough to look at the evidence and situation and not pre-judge. Which is what I am seeing here.

I am not one either side, but I am concerned over the tenor of this whole thread. I'm not going to hang the guy just because some people are upset. Sorry.

[Skatewind]

Not everyone here is being emotional & there is quite a bit of objective information available for those who choose to wade through & read it. When people are still asking how this man could be charged with this 15 pages later, it doesn't sound like everyone has been reading the resources like court documents, laws, policies that are available. Dismissing the validity of the boy's complaint based on an emotional response from one parent is certainly as bad as the other extreme.

[phskate]

Yes, there are many questions here, that the posters seem to want answered. The best way these questions can be answered is to go to trial and let a jury hear the story. Our side, would like nothing better than to have our day in court. If the "old man" is so innocent why do they continue to ask for continuances and delay the trial coming. Perhaps they are not so confident that he will be found innocent. Perhaps they have the answers to the questions you ask and they know that they are condemning and he will not be found innocent.
I have no intention of posting details of the crime or details of why I know that the man is guilty. That is left for the jury to hear. If my emotional posts haven't "helped" you, then it was because they were not meant to "help" you. I, and my family, have had many emotional moments in the last nine months, and some of mine have spilled forth onto this board, if they bother you, don't read them.
I have information and evidence that none of you do. I am more than willing to have it heard by a jury. I look forward to it. We stand strong and committed to seeing this through to the end. We only want justice for a crime that was committed. Whether or not the posters, with only tiny pieces of information think the case is valid or not, makes me no difference. What a jury thinks, who hears ALL of the evidence, is what matters.
I would never have believed people's reactions before it happened to me either. You would have to walk a mile in my shoes before you could believe any of the things that have happened to us as a result of this situation but I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

[kckd]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IceKween
"Uh, no. I'm sorry you don't find anything odd with a grown 17 y/o man.."

Since when is a 17 y/o boy a man? Don't most states use the age of 18 to determine adult status (i.e. a man)?



"I'm not placing blame on anyone. It takes two people to have sex."

Really? You appear to be blaming the 17 y/o for not being able to avoid this situation. I'm sure a lot of rape victims whose attackers say it was sex would disagree.



"No wonder people don't want to come forward with legitimate sexual abuse claims.

I don't know how to respond to that. I hope that every person who was truly sexually abused comes forward so the perpetrators can be stopped if they feel it is right for them..."

"Truly sexually abused"??? Do you have some special information that the rest of us don't? You appear to make the assumption that this boy was not 'truly sexually abused' when none of us, aside from the boy and Mr. Lowery have actual knowledge of this.



"I am not one either side, but I am concerned over the tenor of this whole thread. I'm not going to hang the guy just because some people are upset. Sorry."

You most definitely appear to be on a side. By your own logic you should not 'hang' the boy either.

[IceKween]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kckd

>Since when is a 17 y/o boy a man? Don't most states use the age of >18 to determine adult status (i.e. a man)?

Actually 17 is the legal age of consent in most states. That would be my definition of being a "man". I don't view a 17 y/o man as a "boy".

>Really? You appear to be blaming the 17 y/o for not being able to avoid this situation. I'm sure a lot of rape victims whose attackers say it was sex would disagree.

Okay, then explain how a 72 y/o man can overtake a 17 y/o man? This is not a case of rape apparently, but due to some Ohio law that forbids coaches from sleeping with their students, which also includes college level. I'm not sure I agree with that. When should a person start accepting the consequences of their actions? I certainly think that legal age of consent is the time. Eventually you have to take personal responsibility for your actions.

>"Truly sexually abused"??? Do you have some special information that the rest of us don't? You appear to make the assumption that this boy was not 'truly sexually abused' when none of us, aside from the boy and Mr. Lowery have actual knowledge of this.

I have no knowledge, I was speaking from a devil's advocate standpoint.

>You most definitely appear to be on a side. By your own logic you should not 'hang' the boy either.

I am not "hanging" the young man. Apparently if Lowery had any kind of sexual contact with this young man even though he was of legal consenting age, then he broke the law and Ohio is prosecuting him. Same as if Ohio decided to prosecute a consenting man and woman who engaged in oral sex, since that is also illegal. I'm not ready to villify Lowery, sorry. If that appears that I am on his side, well, that's how it goes. I'm not.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by IceKween
When should a person start accepting the consequences of their actions?
Well, if he's found guilty, perhaps this coach will finally do so in his seventies. This is not limited to Ohio law, but can now also be found in the policies of many sports governing bodies today.

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by Skatewind
That is what I read too. SkateFan123, where did you get your version?

I did not state my wording was an exact quote, I paraphrased it and included the link for the exact wording which you and PH rewrote.

[SkateFan123]

But I also hope that a jury is open-minded enough to look at the evidence and situation and not pre-judge. Which is what I am seeing here.

I am not one either side, but I am concerned over the tenor of this whole thread. I'm not going to hang the guy just because some people are upset. Sorry. [/B]

Well said, but it will never happen. I've stated that, others have stated that, but many here don't want to wait for the jury trial, they just want the old guy hung.

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by Skatewind
Not everyone here is being emotional & there is quite a bit of objective information available for those who choose to wade through & read it. When people are still asking how this man could be charged with this 15 pages later, it doesn't sound like everyone has been reading the resources like court documents, laws, policies that are available. Dismissing the validity of the boy's complaint based on an emotional response from one parent is certainly as bad as the other extreme.

And I do agree with your last statement. Obviously, if the state filed the charges they feel there might be some validity to the claim.

Like in the Bryant case, the victim says one thing, the accused says another. At this point in both cases, the court documents state charges and other legal issues. Specific details will come out in the case and won't be made readily public. Someone has to request the transcript (for a fee usually) for that to be made public otherwise the only detials you'll get are heresay. In the Bryant case, the newsmedia is reporting what they heard in court only and in this case, PH is reporting what she heard from her son.

The details from the victim and accused will be told in court and a jury will decide. Regardless of how the jury decides, many will be upset.

If the decision is guilt, the accused should be sentenced to the extent Ohio law allows and the victim will have to find a way to move forward in life. If the accused is not guilty, his reputation will have been severly scarred and the victim will still have to move forward in life.

I hope the victim and his family are prepared to accept any decision rendered by the jury and move forward with their lives because that is what they will have to do regardless of what the jury decides. I wish them well in doing that.

Until then, in each case, I'm neutral.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by SkateFan123
I did not state my wording was an exact quote, I paraphrased it and included the link for the exact wording which you and PH rewrote.
What is says is he's not supposed to be around children, except family members with proper supervision. He is not supposed to be around unrelated children whether there is supervision or not. "The accused was released on his own recognance and is not allowed around children without the present of the child's family member excluding his own family members" indicates that he can be around unrelated children if supervised, so that was why I pointed it out.

[WeBeEducated]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IceKween
[B]I know this seems like a dumb question, but I don't quite understand how a 17 y/o young man can be sexually assaulted by a 72 year old senior citizen? Just using logic I would think that a 17 y/o man could fight off the advances of an elderly man. In most states 17 is the legal consenting age anyway. I would like to really know the facts of this case, unfortunately on this thread we are only getting the 17 y/o young man's side and are villifying this elderly man.

Icekween, if you read the informative posts on this subject you will see that violent force was Never attributed to this case.
Nobody has suggested that the coach at age 68 was forcibly holding down a well built 16 year old.
From everything that I know and have read on pedophiles they rarely have to resort to violence.
Years of experience help them recognize a potential victim . If the child or teen is lonely or struggling with parents' rules/decisions, financially disadvantaged, or perhaps somewhat emotionally unsophisticated they become easy prey for a clever adult to manipulate.
Investing private time , significant amounts of money and real emotional
support (ala Michael Jackson at the far end of the spectrum and the "gentle" priests at the other end) it doesnt require violence for a pedophile to become sexually suggestive with the victim.
But lets pretend that the teenage victim in this case wanted a physical relationship with a pot bellied, skinny legged, bald man...it is still the responsibility of the ADULT to refuse to engage in ANY kind of sexual relationship with a minor.
It is illegal.
To most of us, it is immoral.
And to the USFSA and the PSA it is regarded as irresponsible and unprofessional in the very least.
Is the teen who was coached by this man a perfect person with a perfect family? No
But he related details that were seen and heard by others before him , that reflected a pattern of which he and his family had been entirely unaware of.
But since he wasnt a young child, many many local skating families preferred to ignore it. They dont actually disbelieve it, as much as they dont care since most of them have daughters who they think wont suffer any similar risk at the rink.
:roll:

[Little Bit]

So PH and Webe....... ant new news?

[iskater13]

Does anyone know if the case was delayed????????

[WeBeEducated]

Lowery's team sought yet another delay.
He sure hasnt been in any hurry to face a jury, has he?:roll:

[what?meworry?]

this is not surprising. it is as much of a mind game targeting the victim as a defense tactic to drag out the time span so memories fade.

i have no doubt that the strategy is to wear down the resolve of the boy---they can read this thread and the many posts about how badly this has affected him.

also, the older the kid looks (boys do tend to grow and mature pretty fast around this age), the less likely a jury may be the see him as a very vulnerable youth. this is speculation on my part.

i've developed a healthy disrespect for defense attorneys from following some of the recent "public" procedings starting with oj.

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
this is not surprising. it is as much of a mind game targeting the victim as a defense tactic to drag out the time span so memories fade.

i have no doubt that the strategy is to wear down the resolve of the boy---they can read this thread and the many posts about how badly this has affected him.

also, the older the kid looks (boys do tend to grow and mature pretty fast around this age), the less likely a jury may be the see him as a very vulnerable youth. this is speculation on my part.

i've developed a healthy disrespect for defense attorneys from following some of the recent "public" procedings starting with oj.

The continuance was filed 1/21 and reported here previously. It was granted on the 28th. How is it a mind game if his attorney is out of the area due to another trial? The alternative to the continuance would be to seek other counsel which would also cause further delay the trial. The judge choose the continuance rather than to have the trial furthered delayed.

While I too have little respect for court games played out in all recent high profile cases, I don't see this on that level. However, just because this is not a high profile news media windfall does not mean it's not an important case.

If the events the young man is stating are true, I doubt he'll forget them as time goes by. (I am not suggesting that the young man is not being truthful.) In the end, it will all work out as it is supposed to.

I am a little confused by the entry of the continuance. It states the next hearing is March 4, 2004 for the purpose of entering a plea or setting a trial date. The October 9th entry said the February 2nd hearing (for which the recent continuance was granted) was for a jury trial. Any explainations or clarifications on that from the "in" crowd? Or is it just a clerical error?

[WeBeEducated]

Yes, it has been in fact an intentional series of delays, not simply one. Lowery asked for at least 4 continuances, offered to settle for $$$$$$$$ if a much reduced plea would be accepted, fired one attorney, hired another, asked for continuances again, waited til almost the trial date and
low and behold his new attorney needed to be out of town!

I know this, if I was innocent, confident, untouchable, I would want this over as soon as possible...wouldnt you??
but if I was guilty, I would do everything I could to delay, manipulate, and avoid a trial.
I invite you to read between the lines!;)

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by SkateFan123
The continuance was filed 1/21 and reported here previously. It was granted on the 28th. How is it a mind game if his attorney is out of the area due to another trial?

so the attorney didn't know the court date? why not file for a continuance for the other trial? this one has been pushed and pushed.

you don't think this is tough on the kid? and you don't think that's part of the "break 'em down" strategy?

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
so the attorney didn't know the court date? why not file for a continuance for the other trial? this one has been pushed and pushed.

you don't think this is tough on the kid? and you don't think that's part of the "break 'em down" strategy?

The motion stated the other defendant is in jail without bond making the timeliness of his trial more urgent while the defendant in this case was not. Additionally, the other trial is out-of-town, involves two defendants and has a "speedy trial" issue. States only have so long to keep someone in jail for trial. If they exceed that timeframe, they must drop the charges. (The coach in this case had to waive his rights to a speedy trial due to the continuance request, by the way.) It's in the motion file if you want to read it.

I was involved in a 10 year custody battle with my stepson. From personal experience, there were numerous continuances. Several after we travelled 1200 miles for court hearing to be told there was a last minute continuance. (At our expense, I might add.) Thankfully, the child turning 18 and the court battles ended. It is very frustrating to wait to know what the courts will decide. Now my stepson is 34 and still doesn't speak to his mother because of all of the upset in his life over the custody issue. It's very sad.

I don't think it was part of the "break 'em down" strategy. If the attorney didn't have another hearing on the same day, there would probably not have been a continuance. Attorney's frequently have scheduling issues.

Unfortunately, patience is needed when dealing with the courts. I always figured that attorneys and judges have no sense of urgency in a case because it does not affect their lives personally.

These delays do affect victims and defendants and their families and friends lives significantly. The fear of the unknown is one of the worst fears we have to cope with.

Just hope there are no more continuances to deal with so the trial part of the case can more forward. That is only half the battle. PH and her family will have to find a way to move forward in life regardless of the outcome. I wish them well in their journey.

[what?meworry?]

and just how much would you wish to wager that the next date also is delayed for just such another "more urgent" or "illness" or, or, or...bet?

[iskater13]

Does anyone have any new info regarding a court date or another continuance....thanks

[phskate]

Hearing scheduled for March 4th. Lowery must either take a plea or set for trial...probably in April. No other news.

[Little Bit]

No more child support so now a civil suit against Lowery! I guess this makes sense.

[phskate]

????????????????? civil suit?

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by Little Bit
No more child support so now a civil suit against Lowery! I guess this makes sense.

Child support??? What do you mean?

[what?meworry?]

it is my understanding that this is a criminal court case, not a civil suit.

i take it you are trying to impune the motives of phskate by making reference to child support.

the tactics employed by lowery friends and interested parties to break down their will is truely amazing. especially as the put up or shut up date arrives for lowery.

of course i'm just guessing, just like the the person making that snide comment.

[Little Bit]

According to the PI, who is working this case PH has also filed a civil suit against Lowery for money. As anyone who knows PH & this crew know that is what this is about that. Now people all over the country are talking. The horror is if the "boy" was actually harmed he will never heal, he doesn't have the tools. I don't think the "boy"is being given any. Then if he wasn't harmed then its even worse. To tell a lie and not know the differance is just as hard to recover from when it is something like this.

[what?meworry?]

the criminal case is set to go. that will take care of the basics. but who will pay the costs of relocation, therapy, etc.? why should a civil suite not follow?

if i were a parent and someone molested my kid, i'd seek any and all forms of revenge. i admire phskate's restraint thus far.

[Little Bit]

Why does the family have to relocate? They don't, many there outside of the skating people probably have no idea who they are. Unless they want to be known.

[what?meworry?]

like, give the kids a shot at returning to skating instead of being driven out of it! like think about the kids in the family and how they perceive themselves in the skating community that obviously is polarized. if this guy is guilty, you bet he should be held financially responsible for the burdens he laid on this family.

your snotty, catty little comment really steamed me. i can't stand this kind of manipulative girly game---just like the vicious office gossipesses backbiting their coworkers and destroying businesses from the inside out. my recommendations include a good housecleaning when i find this kind of nasty behavior turning a previously healthy office environment sick.

[Little Bit]

what me worry funny how you assume you know what that gets you....

[phskate]

I don't need to assume anything Little Bit....I know, and you have been misinformed.

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by Little Bit
According to the PI, who is working this case PH has also filed a civil suit against Lowery for money. As anyone who knows PH & this crew know that is what this is about that.

How do you know about a personal investigator? (I assume that's what a "PI" is.) So you do know "PH & this crew"? I'm guessing you are a player in this case (or a friend or former student of one of the players) so that's why your posts have been so, I don't know the word to use, so biased. You have had your claws out from your first post.

Just an opinion. Meow.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Little Bit
what me worry funny how you assume you know what that gets you....

please translate this into a coherent phrase...i have no idea what you mean.

and good for you, sk8er1964, for picking up on the "private investigator" thing. i'll bet the lowery crowd is desperately trying to dig up every bit of dirt, real or insinuated, they can use to trash the kid and his family. slimy. but not unprecidented in the legal defense game. needless to say i think attorneys are lower than pond scum. and if they aren't tricky, coniving bas---ds, they're probably not very successful.

but, perhaps that's a bit inflamatory.

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by Little Bit
Why does the family have to relocate? They don't, many there outside of the skating people probably have no idea who they are. Unless they want to be known.

Actually relocating after this is over is a great idea, regardless of the outcome. Getting a fresh start will make it easier for the family to put this behind them and move forward towards a productive life. I'm sure this has taken a bit toll on the family and their friends. If they moved away, it would enable them to get a fresh start. They'll never forget the events of this case but at least might have a more enjoyable life in the aftermath.

I still have no clue as to the guilt or innocence in this case at all. I'm sure if the defendent and his friends were posting, the arguments would be just as heated as the current ones.

I just hope the trial phase ends quickly and that they all can get one with their lives. Life's to short to be so consumed by any event. A doctor once told me it takes twice as long as an event like this has lasted to put it in perspective and move on successfully. I hope that's not true for all involved in this case.

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
.....needless to say i think attorneys are lower than pond scum. and if they aren't tricky, coniving bas---ds, they're probably not very successful.


Amen to that!!!

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by Little Bit
Why does the family have to relocate?
A better question might be why did Lowery relocate so many times over the years? Some coaches who incur complaints like this, are constantly on the move every 2 or 3 years, & that might be a good thing to investigate further.

[iskater13]

A better question might be why did Lowery relocate so many times over the years? Some coaches who incur complaints like this, are constantly on the move every 2 or 3 years, & that might be a good thing to investigate further

I totally agree with this statement. I am confused about the fact that the Lowery's have moved every 2-3 years. I cannot possibly belive that the students would root themselves up and follow them across the nation. Whatever happened to the students that would pay the coach room and board to stay with them, while their parents live in another state.

Also, there have been some actual facts discussed here in the last day that make a lot of sense as well.

As for the civil suit, where did the person get his or her info. Even if there is a civil suit, i say you need to do what you have to do.
Good Luck PHSKATE!!!!!!!!!! I wish the best for you and your family:0)

[WeBeEducated]

I hope there is a civil suit as well as a criminal suit. I would seek justice in every way. And that is what PHSkate is seeking - justice. If money was the motivating factor she would have settled a long time ago when the offers were made!
And believe me, they were made right away.
And she gave her son the tools to fight this and to move forward but he must be willing to do so. He is a young adult, not a child, and it will have to be his call that determines now how he will proceed.

She has done what any mother would do: believed her son, helped him, guided him. He was fairly new to skating and to this area but he had been enjoying both very much. Why would he want to create a situation that immersed his family in emotional pain? He wouldnt!!! Money?? Of course not. All his needs were being taken care of. His mother has a masters degree in a lucrative field. Money wasnt an issue. But even to suggest that if a victim is perceived as being "poor" then they are telling lies against a coach is so unfair and elitist. Lowery is the one by the way with no education.

[Little Bit]

If money was not a problem then why did the family leave there previous state owing many people money? Who Coaches, people who befriended them etc. If all his needs were being met then why did he not get the help he needed emotionally.

[peaches]

Originally posted by what?meworry?

i'll bet the lowery crowd is desperately trying to dig up every bit of dirt, real or insinuated, they can use to trash the kid and his family.

I sincerely hope so. After all, the other side has certainly been involved in the same game all along. Tit for tat.

[peaches]

Originally posted by iskater13
I cannot possibly belive that the students would root themselves up and follow them across the nation.

Sure they did. Three skaters relocated to Atlanta when Dave and Rita came down to run a skating school here. It's no different than moving across the nation to go to a different coach.

[dbny]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
And she gave her son the tools to fight this and to move forward but he must be willing to do so. He is a young adult, not a child, and it will have to be his call that determines now how he will proceed.


Without taking sides, I just want to point out that up until now, he has been a "child", but is now, suddenly "a young adult, not a child". I'm one of those who feel that a teenager generally knows what he/she is doing. The law certainly goes that way when prosecuting them.

To be fair, I also understand the pressure any person in authority can bring to bear on almost any one under them in the chain of command.

[jillegal]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
...needless to say i think attorneys are lower than pond scum. and if they aren't tricky, coniving bas---ds, they're probably not very successful.

Does that opinion apply to both defence AND prosecuting attorneys?

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by jillegal
Does that opinion apply to both defence AND prosecuting attorneys?

It does in my book! But prosectuing attorneys have more leverage in many ways. They hold the pressure of jail over a defendants head all the time.

Peaches, you are right about skaters moving for coaches all the time. Todd moved when Richard moved, Scottie moved when Don moved, need I go on. It's very common for students to relocated to go to a coach and skaters to move to follow a coach. Nothing odd about it at all.

[WeBeEducated]

Originally posted by dbny
Without taking sides, I just want to point out that up until now, he has been a "child", but is now, suddenly "a young adult, not a child". I'm one of those who feel that a teenager generally knows what he/she is doing. The law certainly goes that way when prosecuting them.

To be fair, I also understand the pressure any person in authority can bring to bear on almost any one under them in the chain of command.

He was a minor (child) when the abuse took place. He is now 18 years old, which is considered a young adult.
However, I totally disagree that teens "know what they are doing".
In that case I suppose you feel Elizabeth Smart, a 14 year old teen at the time of her abduction, knew just what to do and decided to stay for the fun of it with 2 crazies!
Teens make some of the most illogical and irresponsible decisions. They confuse love for sex, attention for care and concern, etc. Just ask the mother of any teenage girl. Emotionally they are often unsophisticated and are easy to manipulate since they are at the stage of seperation with their parents. They have a stronger desire for cash than a young child which makes them easier to "buy". But they are still minors, and if an adult uses that minor to illegally pursue sexual games and gratification then the adult is 100% responsible for the situation, legally and morally. Just like in the case with the coach in Texas, Gordie M., who "dated" a very successful skater who was as beautiful as she was talented, He was the one who was banned by the USFSA for life because he was the adult who enticed her into a relationship. Adults will be taken to court any time this happens if they have a good support system. I applaud PHskate and her family for not turning the other way. Therapists were offered to their son. Attornies. Comfort. Love. What more could anyone expect from her?????
As for them "owing money" well, I guess they are no different than me and millions of Americans who owe money to banks, credit cards, colleges, auto loan companies, and on and on. In other words, everybody owes money to someone for something, so who cares if it is for skating related costs or for a car? I dont think that is relevant. And it has nothing to do with the victims innocence. He was a happy person enjoying his hobby and his new friends. He thought Lowery was fun, interesting, caring . During phase one of his plan he always is!

[manleywoman]

Originally posted by IceKween
I can't believe that any skate-parents would tolerate wanton sexual assault by a coach with any of the kids. That would never fly at my rink or any other rink I have skated at, and it makes me doubt the validity of PH's posts. From PH's posts I am led to believe that the other parents/skaters don't want to be politically involved for fear of harm to their skaters' careers. I don't buy that. ... I just don't think the town is that amoral that they would look the other way while children are being sexually assaulted (for the sake of their children's skating careers). I don't buy it.


I can buy it.

Parents will do lots of crazy things for the desire of a gold medal. And rightly or wrongly, will keep their mouths shut in protection of their kid's careers.

Actually, I can think of another prominent coach who has been accused numerous times of dalliances with young boys but has never been pinned down and taken to court. But that doesn't stop parents from sending new students to him all the time. They're all female students, but I find it interesting that these girls' parents don't seem to have a problem with his shady past. When I was a kid and he was director at my rink, my mother made sure he never got near me. He has also moved every few years or so, and had some students follow him.

(And no, I'm not going to name him, so don't ask)

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by jillegal
Does that opinion apply to both defence AND prosecuting attorneys?
no.
and i actually know some respectable attorneys.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by Little Bit
If money was not a problem then why did the family leave there previous state owing many people money? Who Coaches, people who befriended them etc. If all his needs were being met then why did he not get the help he needed emotionally.
If that's the case, why was Lowery teaching the young man? Because according to the professional etiquette, a coach is not supposed to take on a new student without following up with the previous coach first to confirm the situation & ensure all previous coaching bills have been paid. Is Lowery a long time coach who worked for years with PSA but doesn't follow the established guidelines?

[sonora]

There is actually scientific research that suggests that teenagers, specifically boys, have immature amygdalas (part of the brain) that prevent them from making sound decisions until they are older teens and/or young adults.

Many jurisdictions are now moving away from the trend to try younger and younger teens as adults. It is a difficult thing to deal with and we certainly have not perfected our handling of it. The US Supreme Court, as conservative as it is right now, is starting I think to reconsider hasty punishment of young and/or impaired individuals.

Just as diificult are situations such as these, where a trusted older person in a position of coach or teacher or elder relative is accused of betraying the trust.

I too would like to see the delays stop and the fact finding begin.

[Little Bit]

....many back in Texas have wondered that same thing. In fact, from my understanding, the money was paid to the coach here only AFTER he threatened the family that he would contact Lowery and the Club and tell them that there was money owed to him.

Actually, since Lowery DIDNT contact the coach or club or the boy's expartner/family and ask for any clarification, he was held in less regard. Everyone here just figured that some story was concocted and that the coaches there were 'fooled'. Or, that he was not 'playing by the rules' and deserved what he would get from them.

quote If that's the case, why was Lowery teaching the young man? Because according to the professional etiquette, a coach is not supposed to take on a new student without following up with the previous coach first to confirm the situation & ensure all previous coaching bills have been paid. Is Lowery a long time coach who worked for years with PSA but doesn't follow the established guidelines?

[phskate]

....many back in Texas have wondered that same thing. In fact, from my understanding, the money was paid to the coach here only AFTER he threatened the family that he would contact Lowery and the Club and tell them that there was money owed to him.

That is a complete fabrication and completely untrue and I have no intention of getting into an argument with you on this board but if your supposed "information" is true, why do you present yourself as two different people Little Bit. Since you were on this forum last as sk8ingmom?

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by Little Bit
Actually, since Lowery DIDNT contact the coach or club or the boy's expartner/family and ask for any clarification, he was held in less regard. Everyone here just figured that some story was concocted and that the coaches there were 'fooled'. Or, that he was not 'playing by the rules' and deserved what he would get from them.
Why would it be Lowery's responsibility to contact either the former club or the boy's ex-partner/family? The protocol calls for him to contact the coach. A healthy dose of skepticism about the whole thing is in order if you do not know the procedures yourself.

[WeBeEducated]

Now this is pretty sad when someone tries to discredit a young man by attacking his parent's finances. I dont think it is relevant. It is a fact however, that the mother is a highly experienced, educated woman with a masters degree. Her earning potential is much greater than mine. But it isnt about her.
It is about a young man who trusted a coach, was not aware of the common predatory nature of many coaches in skating, and was manipulated so effectively that he became hurt, confused, and abused.
His mother wasnt even the first to get hints about what was going on. She wasnt aware of the situation, and she ceretainly didnt react with an "oh goody, now we can get money!" response when she learned the truth!!
She was devastated. She was outraged.
But I know for a fact that she went into action to PROTECT her son immediately, and to offer him legal and emotional help.
Little bit, (aka sk8ingmom?), has an obvious personal vendetta against Ph...I'm not taking it seriously and I know it is small town politics, but it doesnt relate to Lowery or the victim in this case. it is just a distraction.
Let's face it, what can a person say who has been indicted on several counts of sexual abuse with a minor? Can they try to blame the minor? nope
So they say the minor is telling a lie. that is about all they can come up with
and it just doesnt fly in this case

[dbny]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
...not aware of the common predatory nature of many coaches in skating,

Yikes! If you are saying that it is common for skating coaches to be sexually predatory, I must emphatically disagree!

[Little Bit]

Originally posted by phskate
That is a complete fabrication and completely untrue and I have no intention of getting into an argument with you on this board but if your supposed "information" is true, why do you present yourself as two different people Little Bit. Since you were on this forum last as sk8ingmom?

PH and WeBe....

Just because I know of you and your family PH does NOT mean that I am sk8ingmom! There are others in Texas who know all about you and your family. However, I do tend to agree with some of sk8ingmom's past post. Though she was much more lenient and she has sympathy for you and your family as I do not.

[peaches]

Originally posted by dbny
Yikes! If you are saying that it is common for skating coaches to be sexually predatory, I must emphatically disagree!

I must disagree as well and would like to ask how WeBe defines "many coaches"?

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Little Bit
PH and WeBe....

Just because I know of you and your family PH does NOT mean that I am sk8ingmom! There are others in Texas who know all about you and your family. However, I do tend to agree with some of sk8ingmom's past post. Though she was much more lenient and she has sympathy for you and your family as I do not.

wow. so many nasties! between here and unseen, the list of looneypseuds from tx just gets longer and longer. must be sumthin' in the water---or is it just that loco weed that sprouts up around zamboni droppings?

"they" do almost sound the same but there is really no way to tell the way the new pseuds keep popping up often saying the basically the same things, any one can make like a crowd. wouldn't be surprised to see sk8ingmom return and post side by side with bit! i've seen some amaging conversations a poster has had with her/himself.

of course, that can work for the opposite side of the "coin" as well.

[iskater13]

Just because I know of you and your family PH does NOT mean that I am sk8ingmom! There are others in Texas who know all about you and your family. However, I do tend to agree with some of sk8ingmom's past post. Though she was much more lenient and she has sympathy for you and your family as I do not.

I am not too impressed with the way this person is handling him or herself on this board. It is almost like this person has a personal agenda with their posts and it is not an honest agenda.

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by iskater13
I am not too impressed with the way this person is handling him or herself on this board. It is almost like this person has a personal agenda with their posts and it is not an honest agenda.

Do you think most people who post here do have an honest agenda? Get real.

There are many here who post to antagonize this thread and all the closed related threads. There are many that bash those who try to listen to all sides (of course that's difficult since this is such a one-sided thread). And they do it in the name of "helping the family". While the intent of the threads may have been to help the family, they have all turned into threads that bash the defendent before those of us not on the inside have had the opportunity to hear that side of the case.

Unlike many that post here regularly, I do not know the family involved or the coach. I hate the thought of child abuse like evryone else. I have no inside information and direct interest in the case on either side.

I'm still awaiting the outcome of the information put forth before the jury. If the verdict is guilt, the coach deserves the strongest penalty allowed by law. If it's not guilty, I'm sure many will post that the lawyers or jury are corrupt and didn't give weight to the testimony presented in court. Either way, there will be no winners in this case, those on both sides are the losers.

Hopefully, this case will end soon. And hopefully the young man involved and his family will find a way to productive life outside this thread.

(edited to fix a typo)

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by iskater13
I am not too impressed with the way this person is handling him or herself on this board. It is almost like this person has a personal agenda with their posts and it is not an honest agenda.

ITA, and I've felt that way from his/her first post.

Oh, in response to SkateFan123, I do think that a majority of those of us who post have honest agendas - to talk about skating and to consider skating-related issues (like this one). If I thought a majority of posters had some kind of bone to pick, I wouldn't stick around.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by sk8er1964
Oh, in response to SkateFan123, I do think that a majority of those of us who post have honest agendas - to talk about skating and to consider skating-related issues (like this one).
I agree & I believe a lot of people are very interested in the resolution of cases such as this since the USFSA has implemented the new rules & there are actually procedures in place to address grievances like this one. Because of that, there is also interest about how the criminal matter & the grievance policy will be interrelated in reference to these charges. This is a relatively new area in USFSA policy so it is not unusual that there are people watching it every step of the way. If this is a dishonest agenda by most people & "Get real" is the best assessment to be made about it, then someone might want to take his or her own advice.

OTOH, predatory coaching misbehavior is NOT the norm in skating, so I strongly disagree with WeBeEducated on that issue. It is the exception in the scheme of things, as I'm sure any formal research (rather than off the cuff remarks) would indicate. The problem is not that it is prevalent, but that it has gone unregulated, & skating leadership has only recently begun to show a pattern of decisive action in this area in the past few years. The good news is that it is now being addressed on a regular basis when grievances are initiated under the new policy.

[Little Bit]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
Little bit, (aka sk8ingmom?), has an obvious personal vendetta against Ph...

No personal vendetta..........just prior history. All is not what you think it is WeBe..........My question for you is you befriend someone, then you would not expect that person or their children, when they too are a "friend" to go and talk trash about you or your daughter or son would you? Well, that is exactly what they (the boy) have done to you. Of course you will say no, never. One day you will learn the truth and see things for what they are. Till then I know you will "stick" by your friend PH, but don't expect everyone else who reads these boards and knows the family sit by and not express views that oppose your and hers.

[phskate]

No personal vendetta..........just prior history. All is not what you think it is WeBe..........My question for you is you befriend someone, then you would not expect that person or their children, when they too are a "friend" to go and talk trash about you or your daughter or son would you? Well, that is exactly what they (the boy) have done to you.

If you have something to say to me why don't you say it. You seem to know me so well, give me a call and lets talk, don't hide behind screen names on a forum and make jabs, come out in the open. But don't even dare begin to insinuate that I have ever said anything against Webe or her family. They have been there for me when everyone else turned their back and forgot about us completely. I have never said anything against them and I would stand up for them against anyone that tried to hurt them or say anything about them. So watch out Little Bit, you are treading on dangerous ground.

[peaches]

Originally posted by phskate
So watch out Little Bit, you are treading on dangerous ground.

Sounds like someone is afraid of something if they have to issue threats. ;)

The fact that people involved in this scandal are posting about it on an internet message board, to me, shows how far they'll go and how low they'll stoop.

[phskate]

Sounds like someone is afraid of something if they have to issue threats. The fact that people involved in this scandal are posting about it on an internet message board, to me, shows how far they'll go and how low they'll stoop.

Yes I am afraid of something alright, ignorance, and petty small minded people with nothing better to do than stir up trouble.

As to "he people involved in this scandal posting on this message board", this is a free country, with freedom of speech. I have not said anything on this board that is an untruth. I have not set out to do anything on this board except initially to gather information about what to do and where to go. I have posted updates when asked for them by interested people on the board and on a couple of occasions I have gotten overly emotional. Hopefully Peaches, this will never happen to anyone close to you. Don't throw stones until you have walked a mile in my shoes.

[peaches]

Originally posted by phskate
I have not said anything on this board that is an untruth.

We don't know that! Why should we take what you say at face value? And why do you get so mad when we don't?

[phskate]

We don't know that!

No you don't. So why say "how low they'll stoop". If you don't know if I am telling the truth or not, how can you assume that I am taking the "low" road. It is just as possible that everything that has been said here is true. So if you are so unbiased, why am I the one who is stooping low? Sounds like to me you are taking a side as well.

[phskate]

I am not mad when you don't. Your entitled to what ever opinion you want. I have only gotten mad at little bit who is lying out right about me. And I should know if that is true or not.

[peaches]

Originally posted by phskate
I am not mad when you don't. Your entitled to what ever opinion you want. I have only gotten mad at little bit who is lying out right about me. And I should know if that is true or not.

But we don't know that little bit is lying, now do we? ;)

[phskate]

Look....I am not going to argue here. You have caught me on a bad night. I am tierd and irritated with other things and I shouldn't even be posting. I had said that I would not post anymore because it was accomplishing nothing. This is certainly not going anywhere. You are entitled to believe what ever you want. Little Bit can say what ever she wants. Goodevening, enjoy yourselves.

[popeye]

I have read this thread and not commented. I am not the judge or the jury but please here is a mother that has poured her heart out and I cannot believe the lack of empathy and the cady comments being made. People should always remember-what goes around, comes around.

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by popeye
I have read this thread and not commented. I am not the judge or the jury but please here is a mother that has poured her heart out and I cannot believe the lack of empathy and the cady comments being made. People should always remember-what goes around, comes around.

And I expect it will get worse before the trial ends which is why it is my believe that this thread should be closed as the others related to this topic have been.

Popeye, there's lots of empathy here and lots of cady comments because some don't accept the word of internet posters as true. It is a two sided sword.

Some believe the defendent is guilty and some believe he is not and some don't have a clue as to what is true. Most posts are one-sided towards guilty because the defendent has not chosen to post here. (And I am not suggesting he should post here.) It's difficult to maintain a level playing field.

I sure hope this trial ends soon!

[iskater13]

I have not formed any opinion whether or not anyone here is guilty or not guilty.
We have done good so far with keeping this thread open. For the time being, maybe all of us should not post. It worked for a few months, then the pot is stirred again.

If only factual info is posted then there is no need to slose the thread.

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by iskater13
I have not formed any opinion whether or not anyone here is guilty or not guilty.
We have done good so far with keeping this thread open. For the time being, maybe all of us should not post. It worked for a few months, then the pot is stirred again.

If only factual info is posted then there is no need to slose the thread.

And who determines what is factual? I'm sure that many who have argued guilt or innocence think their arguments are factual. Or that many who have inside information or claim to have inside information think that their posts are factual too.

I think everyone agrees that child abuse is criminal and deserves punishment. Discussing that without directing it to any particular case is positive. However, putting blame on one defendent causes people to defend that person and is probably not to healthy for those involved in that case.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by SkateFan123
Most posts are one-sided towards guilty because the defendent has not chosen to post here.
This is certainly a good example of something that is not factual.

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by Skatewind
This is certainly a good example of something that is not factual.

You don't think most people that post believe the defendent is guilty or that the defendent doesn't post here? Which part is not true?

[dobiesk8r]

Originally posted by Little Bit
So PH and Webe....... ant new news?

Why on earth is this poster asking this question when all he/she wants to do is follow it up with comments like this:

m- o-n-e-y money
No more child support so now a civil suit against Lowery! I guess this makes sense

and this:

According to the PI, who is working this case PH has also filed a civil suit against Lowery for money. As anyone who knows PH & this crew know that is what this is about that. Now people all over the country are talking. The horror is if the "boy" was actually harmed he will never heal, he doesn't have the tools. I don't think the "boy"is being given any. Then if he wasn't harmed then its even worse. To tell a lie and not know the differance is just as hard to recover from when it is something like this.

and this:

If money was not a problem then why did the family leave there previous state owing many people money? Who Coaches, people who befriended them etc. If all his needs were being met then why did he not get the help he needed emotionally.

and finally:

PH and WeBe....

Just because I know of you and your family PH does NOT mean that I am sk8ingmom! There are others in Texas who know all about you and your family. However, I do tend to agree with some of sk8ingmom's past post. Though she was much more lenient and she has sympathy for you and your family as I do not..

Now I do not know the principals involved in this case, but I can certainly understand why phskate is irritated with this poster. I would be. Talk about having an axe to grind...

I hope this trial ends very soon.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by SkateFan123
You don't think most people that post believe the defendent is guilty or that the defendent doesn't post here? Which part is not true?
"Most" people do not think the defendant is guilty -because- the defendant has chosen not to post here. It's purely speculative since it presumes you know how everyone arrived at such a decision or that it would be different based on the inclusion of information on this topic from the defendant.

I do believe, however, there are people who believe Lowery is capable of inappropriate conduct for a variety of other reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with his choice to post or not post on this topic, or even necessarily based on the incident with this particular student.

[WeBeEducated]

I know the entire episode has been a learning experience for me. I was inspired to not look away from this in the beginning by responses from posters on this skating forum. Many have been so incredibly helpful, and trusting.
Yes, in my experience in the skating world I have seen quite a few examples of unethical behavior, often predatory, by old school male coaches. It no longer shocked me. That's how "common" it had become around us. Until recently there was very little reason for it to even be hidden! I have been in skating circles where other parents and I saw it, lamented it, but did nothing more than say "glad it's not my kid".
I too was in that zone of acceptance for years because I didnt want to mess up anything for my own skaters. And that is what happened here in this case, and it is a typical reaction.
If I have changed, and offered solidarity to PH then it's the least I could do. Little bit, I dont expect PH to "love" me simply because I finally decided to do the right thing! I am not blindly "on her side" and she knows that. I am on the side of any minor who comes to me or my family, distraught, recounting details of events that were almost word for word similar to ones I had witnessed before in the days when I chose to look away.
It would have been easier for me and my family to turn away from this. There were direct and immediate consequences. But that is even more true for the victim's family, who never had any clue(the way I did) that this could occur. It is very unfortunate for all involved. Lowery's lost some of their favorite students I can assure you, and we all lost a friendship with David and Rita, who can be charming and delightful. Nobody would ever choose to go down this road frivolously!
May God be with Ph and her family this week. Trust her, and keep her in your prayers.

[sk8er1964]

Are they setting the trial date tomorrow? I hope the trial is soon.....

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by sk8er1964
Are they setting the trial date tomorrow? I hope the trial is soon.....

I'm still confused about that. According to the Clerks website, the Oct entry says the Feb 2 date was for a jury trial. The Jan 28 entry is the granting of the date change and it says the Mar 4 date is for plea or trial setting. I don't know why moving the date changes the event. I'm hoping that is a clerical error and the 3/4 date is for trial. I'm sure sooner is better.

Anyone know for sure?

[phskate]

The Feb 2 date was for trial. Lowery's attorney couldn't make that one because of another trial. Although they had had that trial date set since October of last year. They were discussing a plea bargain...so the judge set today as a hearing, so that Lowery could either plead or set for trial.

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by phskate
The Feb 2 date was for trial. Lowery's attorney couldn't make that one because of another trial. Although they had had that trial date set since October of last year. They were discussing a plea bargain...so the judge set today as a hearing, so that Lowery could either plead or set for trial.

Thanks for the info, PH. Good luck tomorrow. I'm sure the waiting is the worst!

[iskater13]

The defendant was going to plead or set a trial date yesterday, did this happen????? Thanks for the info!

[phskate]

trial date set, March 15th or 18th...the person leaving the message said they had to double check....but it is one of those

[skatepixie]

we'll all be thinking of you!

[Meredith]

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

[WeBeEducated]

Originally posted by phskate
trial date set, March 15th or 18th...the person leaving the message said they had to double check....but it is one of those
Sending prayers and positve thoughts to the young man .

[sk8er1964]

My thoughts are with the family as they enter into a very difficult time.

[Little Bit]

Now that the 18th has passed is there anymore news? What happened at the trial so far? What evidence did the prosecution have and what did the defense have? Is this information available yet? :?: :?:

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by Little Bit
Now that the 18th has passed is there anymore news? What happened at the trial so far? What evidence did the prosecution have and what did the defense have? Is this information available yet? :?: :?:

Usually, they have to select a jury. It takes time. Unless there was a plea and I'm sure if that happened, this thread would have been hit very hard with news about it. Be patient.

[Skatewind]

The document from March 4 was filed & is now available for review online. It actually says it's for a continuance at the request of the defendant, until March 18th, for a plea or trial setting. Here's the link:

http://www.courtclerk.org/aps/ttl/lns/cociw002.asp?B0305539

[what?meworry?]

webe, have you heard anything?

[Schmeck]

Notice that no reason was given for the request...

[SkateFan123]

Notice that no reason was given for the request...
The 1/28 document was a request for a delay in the Feb. trial due to the defense attorney being involved in an out-of-town trial. 3/4 document approved that request, set 3/4 for plea or trial. An early post stated that the results of that 3/4 date, trial was set for the 18th. I don't know those involved personally so I have no clue where things stand now or what happend on the 18th.

Perhaps those on the inside track of this case could report on that.

[Schmeck]

Thanks for the clarification.

Any news?

[WeBeEducated]

News...

postponed til April

[sk8er1964]

News...

postponed til April

:roll: The wheels of justice grind slowly.... :roll:

[SkateFan123]

News...

postponed til April
How come?

(Adding this because "how come?" is too short and it told me to lengthen my message. Go figure. I wonder if the new format will complain if the message is too long???)

[USA]

I am sorry, but I just don't want to look through all 16 pages to find the answer for myself. :)

I think this was posted earlier, if not please disregard, but I was wondering who the poster was that had someone directly involved with this incident?

[LittleBitSk8er]

PHSKATE son is the one involved in the case.

My orginal name on skating forums is Little Bit. I am having problems with my computer and the skating forums program. That is why I have reregistered with the name LittleBitSk8er. I will use LittleBitSk8er until the problem is corrected. :frus:

[USA]

Thank you.

Is PHSKATE the one pressing charges against this coach? And how is WeBeEducated involved again?

[LittleBitSk8er]

Thank you.

Is PHSKATE the one pressing charges against this coach? And how is WeBeEducated involved again?

I would think with the age of the "boy" he would be the one pressing charges. I believe his mother is the one behind the charges. WeBe is a friend of the family who originally posted the situation on the skating forums. If you want more complete information I would suggest that you send PHSkate a private message. (PM) I am sure she would rather you ask her directly.

[Skatewind]

This is a case involving a felony charge. The local authorities press the charges, not the individuals. If you go back & review the information, you will see it has already gone before a grand jury. Where are you getting your information from that individuals pursue things like this?

[SkateFan123]

This is a case involving a felony charge. The local authorities press the charges, not the individuals. If you go back & review the information, you will see it has already gone before a grand jury. Where are you getting your information from that individuals pursue things like this?
Actually, it's the State of Ohio that filed the charges.

Individuals can only pursue civil lawsuits, not criminal charges. Individuals can make the State's Attorney aware of crimes, however.

[Skatewind]

Actually, it's the State of Ohio that filed the charges.

Right. It is the government, not the individual, that pursue felony charges. Most major cities have a local state office that handles the cases for their area. They prosecute the accused on behalf of the People, not one individual.

[USA]

Thank you everyone for all your help.

I didn't mean to start anything over my questions. Sorry.

[LittleBitSk8er]

Thank you everyone for all your help.

I didn't mean to start anything over my questions. Sorry.
USA - Unfortunately it is not hard to "start" something on this thread!:halo: I think the family can only file a civil case as someone has mentioned. I am waiting to hear the court findings. I hope they come soon.

[SkateFan123]

USA - Unfortunately it is not hard to "start" something on this thread!:halo: I think the family can only file a civil case as someone has mentioned. I am waiting to hear the court findings. I hope they come soon.http://www.courtclerk.org/EKASH/rad19B78.pdf

Here's the link to the latest court document. There has been a continuance at the request of the defendent until April 22. (edited to fix typo on the date)

So you'll be waiting a little longer for court findings. If they set a trial date, there may be pretrial motions and jury selection first. The wheels of justice turn very slowly to make sure that no details are left unturned.

[SK8sMom]

I believe if you re-read the document, it will be April 22 when this whole thing resumes.

(The reason I checked is I remembered that April 4 is Palm Sunday...and I wondered if the court had pulled a boo-boo and scheduled a court date on a Sunday! nothing is impossible...lol)

[SkateFan123]

I believe if you re-read the document, it will be April 22 when this whole thing resumes.

(The reason I checked is I remembered that April 4 is Palm Sunday...and I wondered if the court had pulled a boo-boo and scheduled a court date on a Sunday! nothing is impossible...lol)
Thanks, I fixed it. Either a typo or an early morning "looked at the date wrong" thing...sorry.

[Angels54]

I have known the Lowery's for over 17 years and find this very hard to believe. Does everyone on this forum believe he is guilty without giving him a chance to prove he is innocent. I sympathize with the boys family if this is true, but my my heart and prayers also go out to the Lowerys if it is not.

[peaches]

I have known the Lowery's for over 17 years and find this very hard to believe. Does everyone on this forum believe he is guilty without giving him a chance to prove he is innocent. I sympathize with the boys family if this is true, but my my heart and prayers also go out to the Lowerys if it is not.No, not everyone thinks he's guilty. There a several of us who are anxiously awaiting this trial before passing judgements.

[valuvsmk]

No, not everyone thinks he's guilty. There a several of us who are anxiously awaiting this trial before passing judgements.

peaches, there is apparently a group of posters here who would make terrible jurors according to legal standards (not to mention the Constitution). Those posters might feel more comfortable in 17th century Salem, Massachusetts - accordingly, would those of you matching this description please read Arthur Miller's "The Crucible" (before you decide to post about that which could be considered 21st century witchhunts).

To be frank, I have no idea regarding as to Mr. Lowery's guilt or innocence, because I have no access to the evidence regarding same - but, for some odd reason, determining guilt or innocence, based on just the evidence, is what I thought a trial was intended to do (at least in the USA in which I grew up circa 1960's-1970's).

[Meredith]

Along with a lot of people, I have been watching this thread very closely. There are a few things that need to be mentioned, even though they probably have been in the past:

People who prey on children usually look pretty normal. They look and usually act like your best friend, neighbor, favorite aunt or uncle.
They choose to involve themselves with children.
They are often very popular (because of their involvement with children).gregarious, helpful, interested and are often treated as "members of the family." Some ARE members of the family. :(
People who act on their impulse to prey on children AND teenagers are NOT sick; they are criminals.
It has to be really tough for those who know Lowery and his family. Please keep in mind that, although you feel you know him, you may not know his dark side.

Let's let the courts sort it out. It's unusual that a victim come fourth in this manner, and this thread indicates why.

Meredith, who would make a terrible juror as well

[Angels54]

I totally agree that preying on children is terrible. If this is true and it will come out in the trial if it is or isn't. The David Lowery I know would never do this and I know that is what everyone says when someone they care about and trust is brought up on this kind of charge. I know of a case in the midwest where 2 high school girls accused a teacher of this, he lost his job, his family and the respect from the community. It was after he took his own life that the truth came out. The girls made it all up because they didn't like their teacher. How sad for all involved. Children should report sexual abuse to their parents and the authorities no matter who it is. If Mr. Lowery is found guilty I will be totally surprised. I like the rest of you will be waiting for the outcome.

[Skatewind]

valuvsmk, I'm sure there are people who probably also perceive the McKellen, Mero, & Young grievances as a "witchhunt", while others see it as a housecleaning, & still others see it as not enough or nothing being done. The heated words & rhetoric from both sides, rather than reasonable analysis, aren't helping much. Though I do appreciate the fact that people from different levels of the skating community are coming together to discuss & address these issues. Especially considering 20 years ago such sordid actions by skating coaches would have been considered business as usual.

[peaches]

It has to be really tough for those who know Lowery and his family. Please keep in mind that, although you feel you know him, you may not know his dark side.

Let's let the courts sort it out.Even if I didn't know him, I'd hold the same opinion - That we should not be swayed by family of the alleged victim and that, indeed, it is for the courts, real courts, not the court of public opinion, to sort out.

[celtic]

Even if I didn't know him, I'd hold the same opinion - That we should not be swayed by family of the alleged victim and that, indeed, it is for the courts, real courts, not the court of public opinion, to sort out.

But we're not trying him -- this is a discussion board only. No one is asking anyone to be swayed by the (alleged) victim's family, and at the same time, we shouldn't be swayed by your posts about Mr. Lowery.

I do feel that his moving from state to state, rink to rink, and from Canada to U.S. is a fairly typical pattern for predators, which makes me suspicious.

A grand jury has already indicted Lowery. Trial juries return a verdict, which may not be consistent with guilt or innocence, but does convict or aquit. A grand jury, however, looks at facts and decides to return a true bill or not. That is what influences me to a great degree.

[Skatewind]

Other than the felony charges, it is not only all about finding him guilty in the court system. Since it is an issue that can also be pursued civilly as well as through the various related organizations, & each will have different criteria. Just like the abusing priests in the Catholic Church, cases about abuse of children in church, school, sports, etc. do not only affect the two sides involved, & they impact a multitude of areas, not just the court system.

[peaches]

I do feel that his moving from state to state, rink to rink, and from Canada to U.S. is a fairly typical pattern for predators, which makes me suspicious.
It's a pattern of coaches in general, predators or not.

[celtic]

Other than the felony charges, it is not only all about finding him guilty in the court system. Since it is an issue that can also be pursued civilly as well as through the various related organizations, & each will have different criteria. Just like the abusing priests in the Catholic Church, cases about abuse of children in church, school, sports, etc. do not only affect the two sides involved, & they impact a multitude of areas, not just the court system.

Yes, and civil cases are just based on a preponderance of the evidence, not "beyond a reasonable doubt", isn't that correct? I recall the O.J. Simpson acquittal on criminal charges, but his wife's family was able to prevail in a civil suit.
- - - - - -
Yes, Peaches, a lot of coaches move around a lot, but not all do. Look at so many, many coaches who stay in one place for years, even decades. Mr. Lowery has stayed on the move, which of course does not make him guilty of anything, but coupled with the charges, the indictment, and the rumors, adds up to make the entire situation slightly suspicious with me personally.

[SkateFan123]

Yes, and civil cases are just based on a preponderance of the evidence, not "beyond a reasonable doubt", isn't that correct? I recall the O.J. Simpson acquittal on criminal charges, but his wife's family was able to prevail in a civil suit.
- - - - - -
Yes, Peaches, a lot of coaches move around a lot, but not all do. Look at so many, many coaches who stay in one place for years, even decades. Mr. Lowery has stayed on the move, which of course does not make him guilty of anything, but coupled with the charges, the indictment, and the rumors, adds up to make the entire situation slightly suspicious with me personally.
Peaches, I agree with your earlier comments about patiently awaiting the results of the trial. If the comments here were not so one sided, perhaps I could form an objective opinion.

Celtic, sorry, but moving doesn't make one guilty. You are correct there! If your mind is suspicious of people who move, perhaps it's just your nature to be suspicious. I have lived in 9 states in my nearly 60 years of life. I'm not running from a thing nor am I guilty of any crime! I just moved to better my career. Life is not like in the old days where people live in the same town all their lives. Lots of perfectly innocent people move.

However, I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about a civil suit and used the OJ comparison. I think my opinion might just be swaying to the side that believes this case might have money involved as the number one motive. What a pity if that is the case!

If the defendent in this case is found guilty, he should face the most severe penalities allowed. Child abuse is dead wrong in any form. Physical, verbal, and emotional abuse is wrong at any age.

But if the courts don't find guilt and this case becomes motivated by money in the form of a civil suit, it will join the ranks of all the others who have just filed charges in the hopes of getting big bucks. That would be a crime!

[SkateFan123]

It's a pattern of coaches in general, predators or not.
Of course, people move for jobs all the time. There's absolutely no crime in that!

[SkateFan123]

But we're not trying him -- this is a discussion board only. No one is asking anyone to be swayed by the (alleged) victim's family, and at the same time, we shouldn't be swayed by your posts about Mr. Lowery.

I do feel that his moving from state to state, rink to rink, and from Canada to U.S. is a fairly typical pattern for predators, which makes me suspicious.

A grand jury has already indicted Lowery. Trial juries return a verdict, which may not be consistent with guilt or innocence, but does convict or aquit. A grand jury, however, looks at facts and decides to return a true bill or not. That is what influences me to a great degree.
The Grand Jury I severed on once only heard evidents presented by the State. The Defense presented nothing. Don't they all work that way? I just assumed they did. Any attorneys out there??

[celtic]

Of course people move a lot!!! Is that what you want to debate? I pointed out that coupled with all else it is suspicious. Predators DO move around, though, and THAT is what I pointed out. Don't jump to judge ME based on that observation. Some of you are being wayyyy too emotional about this.

I don't think this victim and his family are after money -- you have made a judgment in your posts to that effect. A civil suit is one form of retribution which is available to victims. It happens all the time. IF this minor is a victime, it sure is one route to take and I would not hesitate to do that, too.

[AnnM]

Attorney chiming in to answer the two legal procedure questions:

1.) Yes, grand juries only consider evidence that is presented by the State. The defense not only does not present any evidence or testimony, defendants and defense attorneys do not have any right to be present while the grand jury is convened. The reason is that a grand jury is used prior to the actual filing of a case -- to see whether there is enough evidence gathered thus far to validate a case being filed. Whether or not a case is filed is solely in the discretion of the Distirct Attorney or Attorney General -- the defense side is not involved at all because in theory there is no case yet.

2.) The standard in a civil case is a preponderance of the evidence or what's also referred to the 51% rule. It is a much much much lower standard than "beyond a reasonable doubt", which is used in criminal trials. The key word in the phrase is reasonable , which a lot of jurors have difficulty with.

[celtic]

Ann M, thanks for the explanation.

[Angels54]

I know alot of coaches in all different states and they do move around alot. That is not unusual or make them guilty of any crimes. Just as if a person in another profession moved, nobody would think anything of it. I'm hoping this allegation is not motivated by money either. That would be a crime in itself. Alot of lives are being affected by this. Anyone that abuses a child in anyway should be punished and made accountable. False allegations should be punished also. I hope Mr. Lowery is the man I've known all these years and not a monster like he has been accused of. I still believe a person is innocent until proven guilty. Has anyone heard his side.

[peaches]

Predators DO move around, though, and THAT is what I pointed out. I know this is OT, but some predators don't move a lot. Was it John Wayne Gacy, or perhaps it was another serial killer, that lived in one place the entire time and had something like 50 or more bodies buried in the crawl space under his house. Just a thought, though I do understand what you're getting at, Celtic.

[peaches]

Anyone that abuses a child in anyway should be punished and made accountable. That's the one thing we're actually all in agreement on.

[WeBeEducated]

valuvsmk, I'm sure there are people who probably also perceive the McKellen, Mero, & Young grievances as a "witchhunt", while others see it as a housecleaning, & still others see it as not enough or nothing being done. The heated words & rhetoric from both sides, rather than reasonable analysis, aren't helping much. Though I do appreciate the fact that people from different levels of the skating community are coming together to discuss & address these issues. Especially considering 20 years ago such sordid actions by skating coaches would have been considered business as usual.

Five years ago (not just 20 years ago)it was considered "business as usual" and even today many in the skating world prefer to ignore and accept it.
Several USFSA coaches told us to "let it pass" even though they said they had "known a long time ago" about the coach currently in question. We were warned by a few USFSA coaches to "keep quiet" so certain judges wouldnt retaliate. Not one coach familiar with the coach involved and the alledged charges cried out in anguish"oh, it cant be true!".
Just, well, keep it quiet, "that's the skating world" etc, "dont get involved or you might suffer a backlash from old school judges" etc.
The atmosphere was heavily on the side of overlooking it, covering it up, and keeping quiet .
I have often wondered if they were right. Is it simply a coincidence that my 2 skaters received significantly lower placements this year than ever before in their competitive history?? It crossed our minds for sure.
Also, I did hear with my own ears parents of skaters from Ann Arbor speaking directly to me and saying that the Mero case should have been overlooked. It caused their skaters some inconvenience and seemed too harsh to them for what they termed "private business" of Jackie Mero. I assume everyone knows the details of that little drama.
Locally, it did not benefit anyone to have Lowery charged .
Nobody was gleefully planning this.
The victim had much to lose by telling his story. He was encouraged to do so by myself and the teens he had confided in. I am sure his mom was NOT the first to get hints about what in the world was going on. When she was told she was in total shock and disbelief and took a neutral witness to Lowerys house and confronted him. The witness had to give a statement.

To even suggest that anyone made this up out of the blue is seriously unbelievable.
Interesting that those not willing to form an opinion about Lowery though are quite willing to label the teen as "guilty" of lies, slander, and blackmail!
Although a grand jury heard the charges, cried when they heard the victim's testimony, and felt the evidence warrented a trial, you insist on implying this young man is an incredible liar who must be surely fooling everyone on the grand jury, as well as the prosecuting attorney. There is no "wait and see what the court says" when it comes to the victim's assertions??
As for the girl who was responsible for getting Young banned, she settled for money...but in no way do I think she was motivated by money, nor do I believe she was making it up. Read her poignant story on the Silent Edge website. Everyone within 1000 miles knew it was all true, and for years tolerated it. The quiet acceptance does not mean Young was innocent, it just means that people didnt care(and still dont)After this girl left the rink, he moved in on another skater who everyone knows all about. ( and of course her skating career was left in a shambles too)
Same with Gordie...he was banned, everyone knew what was going on for years, and today parents still hire him. No trial in court proved him guilty.
but we all know he was guilty, and that is why the USFSA banned him.
In the very least, the USFSA has heard both sides of the Lowery case and I believe that with that information Lowery will be banned.

[Skatewind]

However, I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about a civil suit and used the OJ comparison. I think my opinion might just be swaying to the side that believes this case might have money involved as the number one motive. What a pity if that is the case!
There is a limit of liability regarding the amount of claim that can be filed against his coaching insurance for sexual abuse. Generally the claim a victim could file against that insurance policy would perhaps pay for 12-18 months or so of therapy. So unless the Lowerys are extremely wealthy (which last I heard they weren't), where are the deep pockets for true financial gain? I do tend to think victims who have been emotionally scarred & damaged will pursue something like this civilly in order to leave a permanent record & help them heal so they can move on in their lives, not to make a million bucks. Often even if they are awarded a big dollar settlement, they don't end up getting it.

[Angels54]

I totally agree with what you said. How can a man Mr. Lowerys age be a threat to any 16 or 17 year old? At 16 or 17 boys or girls know what is appropriate behavoir and what is not. At our rink if this was believed to be true about a coach and student, the other parents would stand 100% behind the victim. Maybe these other parents and students know something we don't.It just doesn't add up. If this is true I'll be the first to say I was wrong

[oldtimersk8s]

Angels, you must be kidding. Why wouldn't a 16 or 17 year old be obediant to a father figure/ mentor? Sometimes when a younger person is so involved with a mentor they are approached and fall into things that they later realize are/could be wrong. They are intimidated into it They are actually afraid to say no. I have known teens to go along with other things with adults where they see nothing wrong at the time - a simple thing like drinking liquor from an adults house with that adult.

[WeBeEducated]

I totally agree with what you said. How can a man Mr. Lowerys age be a threat to any 16 or 17 year old? At 16 or 17 boys or girls know what is appropriate behavoir and what is not. At our rink if this was believed to be true about a coach and student, the other parents would stand 100% behind the victim. Maybe these other parents and students know something we don't.It just doesn't add up. If this is true I'll be the first to say I was wrong
He is not being charged with violent rape!
Is that what you thought???
Is that your only concept of sexual abuse?
If so, let me fill you in on the facts.
Manipulation and coercion are used by authority figures(coaches/teachers/priests) who hope to use a minor for sexual gratification. It works very well if the predator is friendly, thoughtful, attentive, and generous.
Honey is the bait, not physical force!
Did you think all the priests accused of sexual abuse with minors had attacked their victims?
On the contrary, they usually are good listeners, sympathetic, caring.
In skating they offer "extra" attention, "special" arrangements, indulgent support and approval. They know which ones are approachable and which are not. The victim does indeed go along with it sometimes, but the crime is sexual gratification with a minor who should not be manipulated into that position with an adult who the minor has been encouraged to respect and even obey.
Sometimes the minor doesnt even want to press charges...does that make it legal? NO
Sometimes the minor "falls in love" with the teacher/coach/pastor, etc...does that mean the adult is not guilty? NO
Nobody has ever suggested that Lowery physically and violently overpowered a reluctant victim. That did not happen.
Before an adult can coerce a minor into an illegal act there usually is a long period of "grooming" the minor into becoming a pliable victim, closely linked to the adult and dependent on emotional support, friendship, financial support, or in the case of skating, coaching and skating related perks.

[Poohsk8s2]

You hit the nail on the head WeBe... and I would like to add just one thing.
Angels54 you are only assuming that parents and skaters will stand behind a victim... I can tell you that this is the farthest thing from the truth. The victim and the family become the pariah of the micro-society that is the "rink." I can only speculate why: the act is so distasteful that there is denial... no-one wants to think they are that blind or naive... or worst of all the threat of compromising skater success. The apathy in these situations is beyond words.

The young lady that went through this at our rink was villified in the papers, whispered about in the rink. pegged a Lolita, and endured punishment far worse than the "proven" guilty coach. Meanwhile, although the coach has been banned for life, he continues to coach and his team was enveloped by the USFSA.

I think it is admirable that there are posters taking the "innocent until proven guilty" stand on behalf of Mr. Lowery... but don't do this with deaf ears. It is imperative that situations like this be brought to light and remember no-one wins when the victims are are made to endure further pain. It is an enormously brave thing that they are doing. It was because of the public treatment of our "skater victim" that others would not come forward. Quite a few talented skaters left the sport before realizing their potential because of the perverbial monster that lurked in our rink.

[dr.frog]

Regarding the Bob Young situation.... when he was based in Simsbury I skated there from time to time myself, and I did have suspicions (based on my own observations and the gossip I heard) that there was something ikky going on between him and the young woman who eventually brought the lawsuit against him. But she was well over 18 at the time, and however "ikky" I thought their behavior might be (hers as well as his), I figured they were consenting adults and it was none of my business. When I heard rumors Young was messing around with minors, too, that *did* concern me a great deal, but you can't turn someone in if all you have are rumors and no eyewitness knowledge of inappropriate conduct. Maybe some of the people who had professional relationships with Young felt that they could take no action against him because they had no hard evidence of wrongdoing, either. My own reaction was to stop going to that rink because I felt so uncomfortable there. In any event, what it takes to get these people out of the sport is first of all people who are willing to speak up in public when they have been victimized, and that is not an easy thing to do.

[Flatfoote]

In any event, what it takes to get these people out of the sport is first of all people who are willing to speak up in public when they have been victimized, and that is not an easy thing to do.
The main reason its not easy to do is because other people will then pipe up and vilify the accuser, calling them liars or attention seekers. Or, as in this thread, make suggestive comments that the motive if financially based.

I too am willing to give Lowrey the benefit of the doubt. But I also firmly support the family of the victim. I can only pray that the justice system works, and the guilty party is served the punishment deserved to the highest.

[Skatewind]

Perhaps those who think it is financially motivated can provide a better analysis as to why they believe it is so. If there are limits of liability to the coaching insurance & because the state is pursuing formal charges in the matter, if there is a guilty verdict, it is surely going to severely impact his employment opportunities (at least in plying his regular trade).

For the ones who used the O.J. Simpson civil suit as an example of money crazed litigation, the current PEOPLE magazine (30 Years of PEOPLE) can be referenced to update you that the victims' families were awarded a judgement against him, but they've not gotten money, & don't really expect any. For some of them, it certainly doesn't seem like it's about the money. For others I'm sure it's all about the money, but in those cases I don't think the plaintiff would be seeking to impact the regular livelihood of the defendant.

[celtic]

I'm one of the posters who referred to the OJ Simpson civil suit, BUT ONLY to show an alternative to criminal action and to point out the different degrees of doubt in a civil v. a criminal suit. I certainly did not refer to a civil suit as a way to bring in money, just as an avenue that could be used. Many, many judgments in civil suits are apparently never paid. I still would not hesitate to go after someone civilly, and by no means would it be for revenge or financial gain, but as a (1) deterrent, (2) punishment -- money does talk, and (3) one way to pay for any counseling needed, and (4) to establish a legal paper trail against someone such as an abuser.

[Skatewind]

I agree with you celtic. What I was actually wondering about was the rationale as to why others believe "this case might have money involved as the number one motive". If it's only all about the money, isn't it seriously undermining the effort to testify against that person in a felony case & file a grievance with the USFSA which can impact the livelihood of that person? Especially when from reading about the O.J. case, it's apparent that certain properties & incomes can be protected against civil attachments. It seems like would be in the best interests of whoever "only wants the money" to make sure the person has a free flowing supply via employment opportunities, which isn't going to happen (at least when it comes to coaching) if Lowery is convicted of a felony.

[valuvsmk]

Edited to focus on a single statement:
In the very least, the USFSA has heard both sides of the Lowery case and I believe that with that information Lowery will be banned.

Really - has there been some sort of administrative hearing where both parties presented evidence or testimony? I have not seen any mention of this anywhere other than the excerpt above from your post.

[chatterbox]

I would also like WeBeEducated to answer the previous poster (valuvsmk). Has the USFSA had a meeting with both parties and come to a decision on this matter - yes or no? If so where can we see the results of the USFSA decision?

[celtic]

I would also like WeBeEducated to answer the previous poster (valuvsmk). Has the USFSA had a meeting with both parties and come to a decision on this matter - yes or no? If so where can we see the results of the USFSA decision?

I can't answer for WeBe, but can tell you that IF, and I repeat IF, the USFSA has had a hearing, it is confidential until they publish the findings, which would be in Skating magazine. I believe this happens after all the parties have first been notified of the findings.

[peaches]

I can't answer for WeBe, but can tell you that IF, and I repeat IF, the USFSA has had a hearing, it is confidential until they publish the findings, which would be in Skating magazine. I believe this happens after all the parties have first been notified of the findings.Well according to WeBe it's already happened, so he/she/it's spilling CONFIDENTIAL info out on the net. Lovely. :roll:

[celtic]

Well according to WeBe it's already happened, so he/she/it's spilling CONFIDENTIAL info out on the net. Lovely. :roll:

When I posted earlier "it is confidential" I was referring to the findings of the hearing. I have no idea if there has been a hearing or not. WeBe has not posted any confidential findings, she has simply stated the USFSA has heard sides, which I assume means there was some type of hearing or meeting.

On the USFS website under 2004 Governing Council link, you can access notices and statements of the various committees. If you access admin/legal (I think that is the name) you can read the Ethics and Grievance statements, which mention the number of grievances and hearings, but NOT the specifics or names. So we at least know how many were filed, dismissed, and how many hearings were held last year. This is general info and all I know.

[WeBeEducated]

Well according to WeBe it's already happened, so he/she/it's spilling CONFIDENTIAL info out on the net. Lovely. :roll:

Calm down peaches, you are getting way ahead of yourself.


What I said was that the USFSA will hear both sides.
When a victim files a grievance they must supply a detailed written statement and any supporting evidence, etc.
The USFSA then notifies the accused, informs them of the nature of the grievance, and who is filing it.
That person may then respond with their side.
Then the USFSA decides if a hearing is warrented, or if it should be dropped, etc.
I think that is the basic idea.
Both sides can tell their story.

For example, Lowery can write to them and say the young man is telling a lie and wants to get money, if that is his "defense" :roll:

[valuvsmk]

Calm down peaches, you are getting way ahead of yourself.


What I said was that the USFSA will hear both sides.
When a victim files a grievance they must supply a detailed written statement and any supporting evidence, etc.
The USFSA then notifies the accused, informs them of the nature of the grievance, and who is filing it.
That person may then respond with their side.
Then the USFSA decides if a hearing is warrented, or if it should be dropped, etc.
I think that is the basic idea.
Both sides can tell their story.

For example, Lowery can write to them and say the young man is telling a lie and wants to get money, if that is his "defense" :roll:

What you WROTE and I quote AGAIN:

"In the very least, the USFSA has heard both sides of the Lowery case and I believe that with that information Lowery will be banned."

"Has heard both sides". Past tense.

[peaches]

VA, you're right and I think WeBe is now practicing what we call CYA. Mmmmhmmmm. Interesting. ;) He clearly said they "have heard both sides", not that they will hear, no, he said HEARD. So....he was either bluffing or he said something he knows he shouldn't have. Either way, doesn't matter, he can't backpeddle now.

[celtic]

VA, you're right and I think WeBe is now practicing what we call CYA. Mmmmhmmmm. Interesting. ;) He clearly said they "have heard both sides", not that they will hear, no, he said HEARD. So....he was either bluffing or he said something he knows he shouldn't have. Either way, doesn't matter, he can't backpeddle now.

They way I interpreted this was simply that both parties had presented their sides to USFSA and thus USFSA has both sides available. This would be information-gathering, which is necessary to determine if there will be a hearing. Maybe nothing further has happened and this MAY be one of the matters that is pending further action by USFSA criminal or civil litigation in the courts.

[Skatewind]

USFSA would have access to both sides of the story through reading the documents, etc submitted by the person filing the grievance as well as the response from the respondent & any research they undertake on their own regarding the situation. That is not the same thing though, as an officially scheduled hearing.

It really sounds like you are grasping at straws over the use in a sentence of one word, "heard", which can also mean read (I mix up read & hear all the time when I'm writing & don't proofread), talked to a committee chair on the phone, any number of other things besides a formal hearing. I personally didn't get the impression that there had been a formal hearing yet from the what was posted by that poster & wonder why you are so willing to micromanage one word yet at the same time have been so unwilling to do the same with the Lowery information that has been available about this whole scandal.

More realistically & reasonably, after reading the committee report, I would presume this is one of the grievances that is on hold pending the legal action. Since I'm sure the USFSA has reviewed the information that Lowery cannot teach children during this time, it is obviously in the best interests of the organization to wait for the outcome of the pending legal action. If he ends up being convicted of a felony for a crime like this, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that they can take action accordingly regarding his membership & coaching privileges with the organization. It could be done with a conference call meeting with the parties involved. If he's vindicated, they will then know they need to decide if, when & how they will proceed with their own grievance procedures.

[leafericson]

This is the actual usfsa Policy www.frogsonice.com/skateweb/articles/usfsa-abuse-policy.shtml
This is very interesting!

[leafericson]

Sorry wrong thread...

[Skatewind]

Disregard this post. Sorry.

[WeBeEducated]

USFSA would have access to both sides of the story through reading the documents, etc submitted by the person filing the grievance as well as the response from the respondent & any research they undertake on their own regarding the situation. That is not the same thing though, as an officially scheduled hearing.

It really sounds like you are grasping at straws over the use in a sentence of one word, "heard", which can also mean read (I mix up read & hear all the time when I'm writing & don't proofread), talked to a committee chair on the phone, any number of other things besides a formal hearing. I personally didn't get the impression that there had been a formal hearing yet from the what was posted by that poster & wonder why you are so willing to micromanage one word yet at the same time have been so unwilling to do the same with the Lowery information that has been available about this whole scandal.

More realistically & reasonably, after reading the committee report, I would presume this is one of the grievances that is on hold pending the legal action. Since I'm sure the USFSA has reviewed the information that Lowery cannot teach children during this time, it is obviously in the best interests of the organization to wait for the outcome of the pending legal action. If he ends up being convicted of a felony for a crime like this, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that they can take action accordingly regarding his membership & coaching privileges with the organization. It could be done with a conference call meeting with the parties involved. If he's vindicated, they will then know they need to decide if, when & how they will proceed with their own grievance procedures.

Skatewind, Celtic, you are correct.
I simply meant that I know the USFSA has received a grievance, and that Lowery was allowed to respond to the grievance.
I did not refer to a hearing, and in fact, the USFSA will probably wait til the legal issues are finalized before they take any action.
However, as you know, a coach can be banned without being convicted of a crime, based on the supporting testimony/evidence associated with the filing of a grievance.
Peaches,that fact is what I was alluding to when I said that in the very least I believe there is enough information out there about his unethical behavior to result in a ban from the USFSA. That is just my opinion of course, and I am not privy to any confidential info.
By the way people, every time I try to respond to a PM my computer freezes :frus: , so I apologize to those who wonder why I havnt replied.

[leafericson]

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/06/22/loc_amrep22.html

This small article is about the club's decision on what to do.
There is actually another article but I can't bring it up into a link. DO an exact search / advanced search through the search section of the wcpo on his name and it should come up.

[SkateFan123]

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/06/22/loc_amrep22.html

This small article is about the club's decision on what to do.
There is actually another article but I can't bring it up into a link. DO an exact search / advanced search through the search section of the wcpo on his name and it should come up.The article referenced is from June 22, 2003. A search done today yeilds nothing new.

[leafericson]

Any time I have seen accusations made by children or adults alike, things usually get dropped unless there is some weight to their story.(I have seen MANY in my line of work) I don't believe any one teenager could manipulate the, parents, rink management, coach, law, media, and usfsa, club, because of a falsified allogation. When testimonies are taken the questioning attornies and law ask so many questions to the perpetrator and the victim that the child making a false allogation usually breaks down. There are obvious loop holes in the story, no witnesses, and of course a little pressure leaning towards the perpetrator couldn't do it attitude. In todays world a false allogation that makes it this far on sexual misconduct, pediophiles, abuse, etc. RARELY RARELY HAPPENS.

[leafericson]

Skate fan I understand that it is an old article I just thought there was some confusion on what the club was going to do. Sorry.

[Skatewind]

Don't be sorry about it. It's a good idea to post as many links as possible directly to the related news & information.

[skatepixie]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/ce/multi/0,1329,1130860_10946,00.html

Against Richard Callaghan? Tara's coach? Jenny Kirk's coach? Divakawa's old coach? What?!

[Skatewind]

That article was written before the current USFSA policy went into effect. The significant difference between that case & the Lowery grievance, as far as having it heard, is that USFSA determined the individual waited too long to file the complaint.

[WeBeEducated]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/ce/multi/0,1329,1130860_10946,00.html

Against Richard Callaghan? Tara's coach? Jenny Kirk's coach? Divakawa's old coach? What?!

wow I have read that sportsline article several times over the past few years, and each time I am in shock at the obvious deception that was going on within the USFSA.
It is also mind boggling to think that in 1999 the USFSA still had never addressed the issues of unethical coaches and sexual impropriety, and that Disbrow's attitude was considered acceptable.
Maurizi had statements from other skaters and all of it was discarded, bascially because it made Disbrow and Co. uncomfortable.
I would love to know more about the things Hazen witnessed. Is he still associated with the USFSA or did their little backroom politics do him in?

[skatepixie]

It seems a little odd to me. The RC thing, I mean. Apparently it didnt bother Mauritzi enough to not work with him, and in fact he became RC's assistant. The relationship didnt start til after the age of consent. If it happened at all. Thats just my 2 cents based on the article...

[celtic]

It seems a little odd to me. The RC thing, I mean. Apparently it didnt bother Mauritzi enough to not work with him, and in fact he became RC's assistant. The relationship didnt start til after the age of consent. If it happened at all. Thats just my 2 cents based on the article...

Is this the first you have heard of this???? You sound skeptical, but read the entire history and more than just this article before you reach a conclusion. The relationship started when Maurizi was a young teen-ager, I believe. And what does age of consent have to do with these situations? It's been pointed out again and again that these are not consensual relationships between equals, but a student and a person in a position of authority and trust. It's just a shame Maurizi waited so long to come forward, and an equal shame that Disbrow was USFSA president at the time.

[iskater13]

It is also a coincidence that both of these coaches coached at the detroit skating club in the 70's and 80's at the same time. Richard left DSC and is now teaching at the rochester onyx rink.

[Angels54]

I haven't seen any posts since the beginning of April, Has the trial been postponed?

[dr.frog]

I haven't seen any posts since the beginning of April, Has the trial been postponed?

It looks like the court date has now been postponed until mid-June. If I counted correctly, the court date has now been postponed *10* times.

I must say that if I were an innocent person wrongly accused of a crime and confident that the charges against me had no merit, I would be asserting my right to a speedy trial to clear my name rather than trying to postpone it as long as possible. YMMV.

[SkateFan123]

It looks like the court date has now been postponed until mid-June. If I counted correctly, the court date has now been postponed *10* times.

I must say that if I were an innocent person wrongly accused of a crime and confident that the charges against me had no merit, I would be asserting my right to a speedy trial to clear my name rather than trying to postpone it as long as possible. YMMV.
What was the reason for the continuance? The court web site does not have this posted. I couldn't find this in the local papers either.

[LittleBitSk8er]

[QUOTE=skatepixie]It's just a shame Maurizi waited so long to come forward, and an equal shame that Disbrow was USFSA president at the time.
Isn't that the truth! I do understand that it is hard for the abused to come forward, and it takes many painful nights of soul searching to do so. Craig is an incredible man and coach, I wish him peace, understanding and guidance. I had no idea of this until it was posted here.

May Craig have many wonderful years in the skating world ahead.

[leafericson]

If they keep postponing the court date( past PSA, and Governing Council meetings maybe the victim will just go away, and then D. Lowery won't get convicted of anything. So... according to some people, if he isn't convicted, he didn't do anything wrong. Which means he can move on and teach at a buddy's rink!

[leafericson]

If they keep ...copied over by mistake somehow.

[SkateFan123]

If they keep postponing the court date( past PSA, and Governing Council meetings maybe the victim will just go away, they can drop the case,and then D. Lowery won't get convicted of anything. So... according to some people, if he isn't convicted, he didn't do anything wrong. Which means he can move on and teach at a buddy's rink!
Is that a fair statement? I have no clue when this latest was granted. Do you? The Clerk of Courts website does not list a reason. Perhaps there is another reason that trying to postpone the court date until after Governing Council.

[Skatewind]

I'm sure Governing Council doesn't have anything to do with it. It's not like he's on the agenda for any business they will be conducting. However, I do agree with dr. frog.

[Dragonheart]

Can someone tell me what this man did to this boy?

[Skatewind]

You may want to review this link for further information:

http://www.courtclerk.org/EKASH/rad8670F.pdf

Here is the link again to the court filings so you don't have to page back through all the other comments:

http://www.courtclerk.org/aps/ttl/lns/cociw002.asp?B0305539

[oldtimersk8s]

Does anyone think that D. Lowery is trying to post pone this to avoid Gossip at these two events?

[Skatewind]

Here is one of the original articles that is still available on line (for Dragonheart):

http://www.cincypost.com/2003/06/21/lowery062103.html

The article in the first post of the topic can no longer be accessed.

[Skatewind]

See the latest entry:

http://www.courtclerk.org/EKASH/rad888BA.pdf

[WeBeEducated]

It is my understanding that Lowery desperately wants to settle, not go to trial.
I can imagine why.

[celtic]

It is my understanding that Lowery desperately wants to settle, not go to trial.
I can imagine why.

From reading the docket entry, that plea negotiations are progressing, I agree. So I guess at the next court appearance he will plead to some charge, probably a reduced charge? Is that how it usually happens?

[Lurker]

It is my understanding that Lowery desperately wants to settle, not go to trial.
I can imagine why.

It is my understanding that the victim and his family are very anxious to settle and avoid a trial and having to testify. Very iteresting that our information is so contradictory, isn't it!

[WeBeEducated]

It is my understanding that the victim and his family are very anxious to settle and avoid a trial and having to testify. Very iteresting that our information is so contradictory, isn't it!
I believe your information is wrong.
The facts are that the Lowery camp avoided a trial by postponing it again and again and again. That clearly indicates to me a desire to seriously delay a trial with hopes of wearing down the resolve of the victim who is in his teens.
If the victim had wanted to $ettle right away he certainly was offered that option-many times!
He rejected it.
But it was offered right from the beginning, that is a fact.

[Skatewind]

It is my understanding that the victim and his family are very anxious to settle and avoid a trial and having to testify. Very iteresting that our information is so contradictory, isn't it!
Please review the actual document in post#472. It clearly specifies that the action was initiated by the defendant. Obviously, if the defendant requests to continue plea negotiations, it is normally done in order to get him the best "deal" by minimizing the charges and/or reducing a potential sentence. Because otherwise there would only be **one** plea needed - not guilty, & then it would go to trial. Also it is not up to the family to "settle" but up to the State to agree to any plea negotiations, although the State will often take into consideration input from the victim before making such a decision.

[SkateFan123]

Please review the actual document in post#472. It clearly specifies that the action was initiated by the defendant. Obviously, if the defendant requests to continue plea negotiations, it is normally done in order to get him the best "deal" by minimizing the charges and/or reducing a potential sentence. Because otherwise there would only be **one** plea needed - not guilty, & then it would go to trial. Also it is not up to the family to "settle" but up to the State to agree to any plea negotiations, although the State will often take into consideration input from the victim before making such a decision.
I don't speak for the poster you quoted but for myself only.

Actually, often pleas are often offered on the part of the State and it would be normal for the requested documentation to be filed by the Defense Attorney even if that is the case. Pleas can be for many reasons on both sides. Pleas can be initiated by either side.

In my state, even in criminal cases, the State is required to discuss a plea opportunity. Pleas often result in "no contest" which does not indicate a decision on either side. The State offers pleas to save the cost of the trial. The victim often accepts a plea to get it over with, the defendent to avoid the risk of a guilty plea even if they feel they are not guilty or to avoid a stiffer sentence. Both sides must agree to all terms. The judge does not always accept those terms and can offer to change the plea terms if he/she feels it's a weak plea. Then both sides must agree to that change or the plea is dead. (I am speaking from direct experience, not hearsay here. I was invovled in a case where this was explained to me. I was the victim and would not accept the plea. I had no problem going to court with the case. The judge actually encouraged me to thing about it and suggested that it would be easier for me if I didn't have to testify. I still said no and the case went to trial. The verdict was gulity. The trial was stressful and disruptive.)

Not always does the State offer a plea because they feel they have a weak case and the Defense does not always accept a plea because they are guilty. Often the State wants to save the taxpayers money and unclutter the court calendar and the Defense wants it over. The plea usually end with both sides happy about a few things and not happy with a few things.

For example, in this case, if money is offered and a no contest plea is accepted in exchange for it with terms that prohibit either side from discussing the case, the victim gets money and the defendent keeps a clean record. The risk of not pleaing is that juries are unpredictable. There is risk to both sides.

Personally, in this case, if my child were the victim and I believed the defendent were guilty and the case was a strong one, I would not accept a plea. If I were a defendent in any case and not guilty, I wouldn't accept a plea either. But that's me. Everyone has to do what is in their best interest.
Plea attempts are normal, often required, and often suggested by the judge. I don't condemn anyone for accepting one. Accepting a plea to keep the victim out of court is not a bad thing.

Most likely, if there is a plea, we'll never know the terms of it anyway and all postings about it will be speculation. I just wish all parties directly involve luck with this case. I also hope that as things come closer, that the posters here and on the other two threads do not become any worse.

[Skatewind]

I agree with most of what you have written & don't see how it is that different from my observation, with the exception that what I wrote was focused on the defendant.

Where we apparently disagree is regarding a no contest plea. A no contest plea means the defendant does not acknowledge guilt but does recognize there is evidence that can result in a conviction & agrees to accept the sentence by the judge or the plea agreement for the charges. It is normally on the record in most places. I would hope most states would consider it important to have it on the record when it's related to a form of child abuse. Another reason many defendants use the no contest plea is to avoid having a guilty verdict or plea entered into evidence at a civil trial.

[celtic]

It's good you explained about "no contest" pleas. Some judges won't even accept them, i.e., federal courts. To me, those pleas mean what you stated, and I read into them that the defendant doesn't plead guilty but doesn't contest the charges against him, and seems a cop-out. I hope any such plea in this case becomes part of the record.

[SkateFan123]

I agree with most of what you have written & don't see how it is that different from my observation, with the exception that what I wrote was focused on the defendant.

Where we apparently disagree is regarding a no contest plea. A no contest plea means the defendant does not acknowledge guilt but does recognize there is evidence that can result in a conviction & agrees to accept the sentence by the judge or the plea agreement for the charges. It is normally on the record in most places. I would hope most states would consider it important to have it on the record when it's related to a form of child abuse. Another reason many defendants use the no contest plea is to avoid having a guilty verdict or plea entered into evidence at a civil trial.

There are two sides to a plea. One reason the victim would agree to a plea is that the evidence may not prove guilt and a "no contest" plea would look better in a civil trial than a "not guilty" verdict? As I stated before, there is a risk to trial for both sides.

Both the victim and the defendent must agree to the plea before it can be presented to the judge. If either side does not agree to it, there will be a trial.

I'd personally rather see a trial. That way, the evidence would speak for itself. If there is a plea, this thread will take on another life form.

I'm still not on either side of this case because I have no facts in the case and therefore cannot make a fair decision. I've only heard third-party information for one side and that is just not enough for me to make a decision.

My opinion is that if the defendent is guilty, he deserves jail, not a plea. There is no place for abuse of any kind directed at anyone, ever!

What will be interesing is how the USFS will view and respond to a plea.

[SkateFan123]

It's good you explained about "no contest" pleas. Some judges won't even accept them, i.e., federal courts. To me, those pleas mean what you stated, and I read into them that the defendant doesn't plead guilty but doesn't contest the charges against him, and seems a cop-out. I hope any such plea in this case becomes part of the record.
Actually, Federal Courts accept pleas.

If the case ends in a plea, it becomes the official resolution of the case. That part is pubic record. The terms of the plea may or may not be public record.

I agree with you that if the case is plead out, I hope the record reflects the terms.

[Skatewind]

A lot of times a no contest plea will be entered at a later time or criminal charges dropped, etc if the defendant maintains a clean record for a specified amount of time. Which helps give the defendant a fresh start & another chance (without a criminal record) if they stay on the straight & narrow. Generally speaking, court systems would use such a method for offenses relating to non-violent crimes. Violent crimes & child abuse should normally be on the record. If it's not, someone should question why the laws are such that it's not.

Another area where I disagree with SkateFan123 is regarding the victim's acceptance of a plea agreement, because while the victim has input into the decision, they don't always have the last word. I don't know about Ohio, but there are other places where the parties enter into an agreement without the victim always having to agree to it. It depends on the laws. Victims' rights are emphasized more in some places than others.
(Adding to clarify: The responsibility by the State to the victim regarding a plea agreement is generally one of notification, prosecutorial consultation with the victiom prior to a potential plea agreement, & the opportunity to be heard by the court in some states when a plea is accepted.

[celtic]

You're right, Skatefan, federal courts do accept pleas, of course. I should have clarified: some federal judges refuse to accept "no contest" pleas.

[kisscid]

I don't mean to go off topic...but how could a judge reject a "No Contest" plea if that's what both parties in the suit have agreed to? I'm judicially stupid.
Cid

[celtic]

I don't mean to go off topic...but how could a judge reject a "No Contest" plea if that's what both parties in the suit have agreed to? I'm judicially stupid.
Cid

Because judges can do whatever they want :) (Kidding.)
A judge may not like the ambiguity of a "no contest" type of plea and can refuse it, I'm thinking.

[Skatewind]

There are two sides to a plea. One reason the victim would agree to a plea is that the evidence may not prove guilt and a "no contest" plea would look better in a civil trial than a "not guilty" verdict? As I stated before, there is a risk to trial for both sides.
Since the standard of proof is lower in a civil trial, there are probably very few true victims who would give this the main consideration. Especially when they can see there have been several high profile cases, like the O.J. Simpson case, where there was a not guilty verdict at the criminal trial but a large amount of damages awarded for the civil trial. I agree with what you said earlier that it's less damaging for the victim not to have to testify, & from that perspective a no contest plea might be an acceptable resolution for the victim. But for the most part, a no contest plea is favorable to the defendant & keeps the costs down for the State.

ITA it will be interesting to see how the case progresses from the courtroom to the USFSA. The USFSA has something of a track record now after some of the other related grievances. I would expect them than to apply the same methods & criteria for this case they used in the others, which could result in a similar outcome if warranted by the facts in evidence irregardless of the outcome of the court case. What the court case could have done was saved USFSA time & money. It still may, depending on the final disposition.

[celtic]

. . . .
ITA it will be interesting to see how the case progresses from the courtroom to the USFSA. The USFSA has something of a track record now after some of the other related grievances. I would expect them than to apply the same methods & criteria for this case they used in the others, which could result in a similar outcome if warranted by the facts in evidence irregardless of the outcome of the court case. What the court case could have done was saved USFSA time & money. It still may, depending on the final disposition.

Good point and I never thought of this before. If there is evidence against someone that is serious enough to have him banned, why doesn't the USFSA assess costs to that person, as in court cases, if it proceeds to the hearing stage. Criminal cases usually have a fine at least, and in civil cases the "losing" party often has to pay court costs, so if a person insists on a hearing and causes expense to both sides, it would make sense for the USFSA to be able to do this. Question is, could USFSA do this?

[Skatewind]

I don't think they would be able to do anything but bill them for costs & fees if this if it is not a clear condition of membership. One grievance resolution indicated they charged the assessed fees to a party because the party insisted on a hearing panel after USFSA informed them one was not warranted. But they would probably have a hard time collecting it & I don't think they would be able to do anything but bill them for costs & fees unless this is a clear condition of membership, or the parties have agreed to do this in advance & there is some kind of contract. I believe they can assess fees & costs to the grievant if they determine it's a frivolous grievance, but there is advance agreement & awareness by the grievant in that case.

[backspin]

Very interesting to note (OT a bit) that this year's PSA liability insurance for coaches no longer covers sexual abuse charges. I wonder if it's because of some of these recent cases?

I think it's really bad that they've dropped it, although perhaps the majority of coaches are female, & less likely to be sued over such matters. It seems the men are much more at risk. I think they should at least offer the option of a "rider" or something, that could be added if desired, for an additional fee.

[LittleBitSk8er]

Because judges can do whatever they want :) (Kidding.)
A judge may not like the ambiguity of a "no contest" type of plea and can refuse it, I'm thinking.That is exactly what the judge did in the Enron case for the wife. Remember it, both sides came up with an acceptiable plea and jail time and the judge threw it out.

The court room judges are just like in figure skating, they do what ever they want.:frus:

[Skatewind]

Here is the link to an article I found in my files from The Washington Times about this issue. It has comments & recommendations from Caroline Silby, who counsels skaters in the area of sports psychology:

http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20030617-114852-6221r.htm

This was from a group of articles by Bob Cohn about coaching abuse. Another of his articles called "Crossing the Line" was posted previously on either on this thread or one of the McKellen threads.

[sk8er1964]

Anyone heard anything on the case?

[what?meworry?]

http://www.courtclerk.org/EKASH/rad2380C.pdf

back in april it was posponed at the lowrey's request to june 15th, so nothing has happened yet.

the purpose was for a "plea" and it further states that the plea negotiations were being concluded. this would be with the state, not the complaintant, i believe.

[Schmeck]

I noticed that on the paperwork, it looked like May was scribbled out and June was added in. I guess they were expecting a long conclusion?

[what?meworry?]

Very interesting to note (OT a bit) that this year's PSA liability insurance for coaches no longer covers sexual abuse charges. I wonder if it's because of some of these recent cases?
I think it's really bad that they've dropped it, although perhaps the majority of coaches are female, & less likely to be sued over such matters. It seems the men are much more at risk. I think they should at least offer the option of a "rider" or something, that could be added if desired, for an additional fee.
this truly is unfortunate.

there are, sadly, more than enough skaters/skater parents with "axes to grind" who would make false accusations against coaches. we've seen something like that on some of these boards. attack with rumor and inuendo in a post and invite pm's to get the "details." (i admit, early in the original lowrey thread, i began to think it was one of those "false" rumor deals. i was glad to see the charge finally in print.)
of course they would set themselves up for libel and slander suits if they actually took it to any real authority. but they never do. always some excuse.

however, coaches sould have a resource for insured protection, perhaps usfsa could offer such or at least put some pressure on psa to offer a "rider" as you suggest, that is a fair and reasonable premium.

[sk8er1964]

http://www.courtclerk.org/EKASH/rad2380C.pdf

back in april it was posponed at the lowrey's request to june 15th, so nothing has happened yet.

the purpose was for a "plea" and it further states that the plea negotiations were being concluded. this would be with the state, not the complaintant, i believe.

Thanks - I thought something was supposed to happen sometime soon.

[what?meworry?]

confirmation of indictment was first published 6-20-03.
http://www.wcpo.com/news/2003/local/06/20/coach.html
and then 6-21-03.
http://www.cincypost.com/2003/06/21/lowery062103.html

the most recent delay set the plea hearing for yesterday. the link above no longer works and i wasn't able to call up anything under lowery's name.
just found a differerent link that still works:
http://www.courtclerk.org/aps/ttl/lns/cociw002.asp?B0305539
but no new entries for case # B 0305539
http://www.courtclerk.org/EKASH/radBE1B9.pdf

well, i sincerely hope for the sake of the young man and his family, that no further delay was granted.
any news?

[dr.frog]

The court web site is now showing Lowery is scheduled to enter a plea on June 21.

[SkateFan123]

confirmation of indictment was first published 6-20-03.
http://www.wcpo.com/news/2003/local/06/20/coach.html
and then 6-21-03.
http://www.cincypost.com/2003/06/21/lowery062103.html

the most recent delay set the plea hearing for yesterday. the link above no longer works and i wasn't able to call up anything under lowery's name.
just found a differerent link that still works:
http://www.courtclerk.org/aps/ttl/lns/cociw002.asp?B0305539
but no new entries for case # B 0305539
http://www.courtclerk.org/EKASH/radBE1B9.pdf

well, i sincerely hope for the sake of the young man and his family, that no further delay was granted.
any news?
Since you are in tight with the family, one can only assume that you are feeding the frenzie. It appears there is a plea and that there is an agreement to keep the contents secret which is why there has been nothing posted from those in the know.