I had an interesting discussion with a NY/NJ friend last week regarding public sessions and figure skating. She had told me that all figure skating had been banned at her rink during publics. The background was this was caused by the behavior of a high-level skater during a few sessions. I think some of it is fallout from the large crowds around the holidays. There's probably also some desire to increase the number of people going to freestyle sessions, which are more expensive for the skater.

I remember skating at South Mountain Arena in New Jersey, which had the toughest rules for publics at the time:

• No spirals
• No jumps
• No camel or layback spins
• No turns outside the middle
• No backskating outside the middle

Several rinks today have "No Figure Skating During Public Sessions" edicts. The guards (if there are any) are clueless about what is / isn't allowed but they're very quick to challenge figure skaters. "No Figure Skating" is a far worse rule because it's sooooo vague and one-sided.

Does it mean figure skaters can't skate backward? Then why are the hockey kids allowed to skate backward?

No jumps should apply to everyone, the wanna-be barrel jumpers shouldn't be allowed to hurdle over the cones!

What would be REASONABLE skating rules for public sessions that can apply to everyone?

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I think the rules you posted are reasonable...perhaps not the backskating one, as that's tricky to distinguish (crossovers? Slaloms? Plain skating backwards?). I think rules for HOCKEY would be more suitable (though I suppose we're biased...) - no skid-stops or whatever they're called, no jumping for them either, no hockey turns...

Having said that, I think the beauty of public sessions is that people of all different levels skate there. Sometimes it's fun, just standing at the side, watching a couple of people do waltz-jumps, and couple practising crossovers, watching people in lessons, watching people stop in different ways, and sometimes just watching the little kids (then going over to help them up cos the stewards are miles away). I don't really think public sessions should JUST be people staggering around if you know what I mean.

We had parents complaining about the sticks and pucks on our p. sessions!!! And rightly so! And the management retaliated (can ya guess its a hockey rink?) by first taking away ALL freestyle, then implemented the rule that no jumps and spins allowed outside the middle and they can only be done if less than 25 skaters are on the ice. Sounds okay, with the stupied exception that in the weekend sessions they won't allow anything, which is STUPID, why can't they keep the same 25 or less rule?

FIgure skating is a great way to promote the LTS stuff and also private lessons!

Another rink had no jumps and no blade above the knee, meaning no camel spins but other were okay.

It only takes one dangerous and not caring person to ruin it for the rest of us who are very cautious to make rules change.

at my rink there is no section coned off in the middle for figure skaters

figure skaters are banned from jumping on public sessions (wih the exception of thursday daytime, not sure what special about thursdays lol!)

figure skaters can do upright spins on public sessions e.g. 1 foot spin, 2 foot spin, scratch spin

however, the thing that irks me is that there isnt a list stating what is/isnt allowed on public sessions, so you dont find out till you try it and get told off :S

Wow. I would cry if figure skating during publics was banned here. And I would be much poorer, money-wise!

I can see the no camels and no spirals rules being reasonable. Those can be very dangerous in a crowded session. And I can also see keeping figure skating to the middle of the rink as reasonable too (although, if that rule is enforced, than keeping non-figure skaters out of the middle - if it's coned off - should also be enforced).

However, I think that most figure skaters who skate on public sessions are smart enough to limit what they do if the session is crowded. Of course, that doesn't always happen, which is why rules like those are created in the first place.

From what I've seen, the figure skaters on public sessions are much more aware of people and space than the little hockey goons. Doing salchows in the middle circle is far less dangerous than weaving in and out of people who have no control over their skates.

One rink in the Netherlands forbid to do anything "lifting the foot off the ice". Talk about vague rules... So if I was to do a broken leg spin with my foot 1 inch off the ice (provided I could), would that be more okay with the rules than forward skating with a nice extention or a 1-foot glide? What about backward lunges? Part of the reason for it was that their circle-rink (which was usually the favourite for the "can barely stand" crowd) burned out.

Here in the Netherlands, my own rink and some other rinks I've skated at (with friends 'n stuff) take you apart (once they notice you do more than 1-foot spins) and ask you to do anything you like, just use your head to keep it safe. I personally witnessed several of the girls skating nationals practicing doubles on public ice.
Didn't notice them landing on anybody or any bloodstains on the ice.
Seems to work.
I do think anybody doing any spin on busy public ice with a leg sticking really out will be taken off the ice. Ice management seems to think jumps are somehow safer than spins. Maybe they're right, little kids seem really drawn to spinners, but with jumps they don't get enough time to approach.

It also helps to just practice in the same spot for the general public to stay out of your way.

BTW our public sessions don't have a centre for figure skaters and freestyle ice isn't really very big here, at some rinks there is some but those require a coach is with you.

Yet another reason why I love my rink. It offers public sessions called "Open Figure Skate" every afternoon at 1pm. They are exactly like a club session but $3 (for town residents, you have to buy a town ID card once a year for $5) for almost 2 hours. I bring a stereo and borrow a microphone from the rink. The only thing you can't do is have a lesson. The sessions aren't crowded because of the time, and you can't beat the price. It's made a huge difference in my skating.

Like Sessy, our rink has quite a laid back approach to what can be done on public ice ... personally, I always pay a lot of attention to jumping safely, and find that often I will abort a jump because I am unhappy about a clear landing area ... the comment about spins is also true, they seem to attract young children. Nobody from the staff has taken me aside, but I think the standard of my skating is visible to all.

The only problem I have witnessed from a figure skater, was recently, on New Years Day. A mature lady, who should know better, persistently practiced camel spins on a session with many young children. I felt that a belligerent attitude like that could well blemish the current 'tolerance' towards figure skaters.

In the main though, I believe that figure skaters show awareness and consideration on public ice, and try and set an example.

The other problem however, is how many people are on public ice. On Saturdays, our ice is busy up until 12, but it thins dramatically as lunchtime approaches, and there is plenty of space. I am happy with our current practice.

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figure skating/hockey drills/etc should all be banned from public skates. Hence the word "public" skate. Perhaps it's because I'm from Canada and it's very rare for figure skating/hockey drills with sticks and pucks to happen on public ice. They have "shinny" ice for hockey players and ice for figure skating.

I think some rinks want to promote their very expensive FS sessions by forbidding ppl to practice skills on public even if public is not crowded, but I have seen these "rules" broken so many times. I understand the safety concerns, but there is a difference b/w a low FS skater trying a sit spin and a high FS skater flying around the rink doing doubles. A hockey skater at top speed weaving around ppl is just as dangerous as a figure skater skating backward or doing MITF. Rules are rarely aimed at hockey.

Kay

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Yeah, and even my most favorite thing...

take away the figure skating, and the sticks and pucks, and then watch 'em do these really fast stroking things where they throw their bodies onto the ice and slide for....about...1/2 the rink (with all their friends!) ha ha - that's really safe!

I guess I don't see anything evil in promoting figure skating sessions for figure skating. Yes, it's more expensive, because there are less people on the ice and because it's for figure skaters. Personally I don't mind paying the extra $ for that because to me it's safer than public skating and rather than seeing some sort of evil plot, I'm rather grateful our rink offers those sessions, although not at very convient times.

Maintaining ice is very expensive and most rinks are not making a lot of money.

j

Hockey drills with sticks and pucks I can understand. But hockey stops between two lines? What other techniques would be allowed on public ice? Snowplough stops? Crossovers? Crossrolls? Mohawks? Slalom, on two feet or one? Backward skating and associated elements? Edgework? Most of these are fundamental to both figure and hockey skills, but are the natural extension after a person has learned to stand up and skate on two feet. In fact, these are all included in most learn to skate programmes (certainly in the UK).

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The impossible is just a journey away ...

Yeah at my rink no spirals, no camel spins because there are too many little kids that don't watch where they are going and could get their eyes poked out, so i don't mind those rules. But recently I was banned from spinning, IN THE MIDDLE. And we aren't allowed to skate backward. And even when there were maybe 15 people on the huge Olympic sized ice, and I'm clearly a figure skater who knows to watch behind her when she's skating, I got yelled at when I went backward when everyone else was on the other side of the rink. I think it's ridiculous to not let people spin or jump in the middle of the rink. If you put signs up or cones in the middle, then the public should know that that is figure skating ice, for the kids who practice on public sessions. The regular public does not need to go in the middle anyway, they should be skating around the outside. It's stupid because I know a lot of people who can't make it to the FS sessions because there aren't any after 2:45pm, and especially since I don't get out of school until 2:30, I've been forced to practice on public sessions, and now I can't even do that because I keep getting kicked out, even though I am so careful to watch for the little kids, and even when I have the right of way and am clearly already spinning with no one around me, and a little kid comes recklessly tearing towards me I stop and put myself in danger so they don't get hurt.

Also, I think the tiny 4 year olds who weave in and out of people's pathways are way more dangerous and disruptive than any figure skater I've ever seen on public ice. Plus, the only people who practice on public ice are those doing singles and lower, because for doubles you need more speed and lots of space. But those little hocky guys, (and even high school age and 40 year olds!) are so obnoxious! When I go skating with my friends, I am so scared for them, they freak out when they see the kids swerving in and out and it's just really annoying.

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There's a big difference between an lunchtime public and an after-school or weekend public. Here, we have public from 11:30 to 1 four days a week, and pretty much anything goes because the "crowd" usually numbers no more than five people. Often I have the ice to myself at least part of the time. There's no skate monitor out there, but there's enough of us who are regulars that if someone's doing something obnoxious or dangerous, the managers know someone will come tell them.

Weekends are a different story. I won't teach privates on weekends- for true beginners, I don't think it's safe (they need to be watching where they're going in the crowd, not watching me), and for more advanced kids it's too crowded to be productive in the slightest. The middle gets coned off, mainly for high-LTS/freestyle-level kids having private lessons, but kids from LTS who want to practice are generally told to do so in the middle too. This leads to the middle being very crowded, especially since there aren't any real rules about who can/can't be there. The monitors are told not to let people cut through the middle or stop and hang out there, but we have parents who take their non-mobile toddlers into the middle (often right into the middle of someone's lesson) to try and get them moving. Or a hockey parent will try to get their child doing drills in the middle, since they can't change direction or skate backward around the edge.

We have public sessions after school every day, so we don't have all that many LTS kids coming on weekends to practice. Most of them figure out quickly, or are told by one of the coaches, that it's more productive to come during the week. It's tough to teach on them this time of year, but not impossible. A lot of it depends on which monitors are out there- some of them are pretty good about keeping kids from cutting through the middle, and some of them skate in circles and do nothing. As far as figure skating, they're allowed to play it by ear. If it's crowded, they'll tell any freestyle-level kids to stay in the middle. If it's fairly empty, they'll let them practice down at the ends, too. We don't generally have kids working on more than maybe a single flip and a sit spin practicing on public; after that they usually start skating mostly on club ice.

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This reminded me of something else- does anyone's rink have a minimum age for kids to be on the ice without an adult? Our just says that "young children must be accompanied by an adult". There's obviously a difference between a child who takes or has taken lessons and one who doesn't, but I think kids under 10 should have to either be with an adult or have passed Pre-Alpha/ Basic 1/Hockey 1. The biggest menaces are the kids who are old enough to have to motor control be able to go fast, but haven't had any instruction and don't know how to stop, slow down, or turn to avoid someone. At least if there's an adult on the ice, there's someone to see the dangerous behavior and hopefully put a stop to it- and if they don't stop it, there's someone for the monitor to go over to and say, "Your child almost hit someone, he needs to slow down."

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My home rink is another rink that forbids not only figure skating on public sessions, but private lessons to held on public session ice as well.
As a result, you have right out of or still in LTS skaters skating on the freestyle ice with the more experienced ones doing doubles and up to Senior moves.

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My kids are in that situation with our new Club; whoever isn't on lesson can usually be found right next to Mom. They tell me they're really scared. They were better on the early AM freestyle last week, which was less crowded and had only 1 or 2 strong skaters. We're going to try switching their lesson this week and see if it helps with the attention span.

Some rinks have LTS practice times, which is a better solution than a freestyle for lower-level skaters.

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I have to think that is a bad strategy - you're not going to get people paying to freestyle bucks until they've been hooked on skating. If they can't practice in public sessions till they are good enough to be thoroughly addicted they'll get disgusted and move on. Plus it gives the forwards-in-a-circle crowd something to aim at, and maybe inspire some to take lessons.

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wow, i think your rules are kind of strict! i mean if you cant jump do hard spins or spirals, what are you supposed to do? our rule is basically, keep all figure skating moves in the middle area marked by the cones and dont do anything above level freestyle 6, which is a rule me and my friend still break whenever we skate publics but the rink guards dont really care. they're hockey players and they dont know what stuff is in fs6 and whats higher level. as long as we dont crash into anyone we're good.

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we don't really have any rules at our rink about public sessions. i only skating publics after school, and for the most part it is pretty empty. the only dangerous days are wednesdays bc there is skate school after the public. but there are still no "no figure skating" rules. i've never seen any bad collisions--we all know to watch where we are going

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Our rink is great...you can do anything you want, lessons and all. My dd has even had dance lessons on publics. Of course, they were not crowded. She knows when she can do camels/flying camels and when she shouldn't. The only drawbacks are, no program music, and since she skates CW, she tends to go against the flow of the skaters. On the morning publics, sometimes there is no one but figure skaters, and they will let us play our music then.

She would rather skate publics than freestyles. Most of the time they are less crowded, and the atmosphere is more friendly. Besides, she is a total show off, and loves it when someone comes up to her and says "Wow!"

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That's exactly my point - figure skaters who ignore the easy-going rules are causing this "No Figure Skating" rule to be put into place. When someone figures out that you're doing things above the limits, the guard will be in trouble for allowing it and you can ruin figure skating on public sessions for everyone at your rink. What are you supposed to do? Obey the rules at the rink, of course. Don't wait for a crash to happen.

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I did not say there was an *evil plot*. I do not think it is an *evil plot*. However, rinks do want to fill FS sessions. However, I recognize a difference b/w a low FS skater and one who really needs the extra room. There is also a difference b/w a morning public will all adult skaters practicing low FS skills and a Sat afternoon public that is crowded w 100 ppl. IMO, putting low FS skaters on a hectic FS session w ppl doing doubles, triples and adv footwork may be more dangerous than having the low FS skater practice a waltz jump in the middle during a public.

Kay

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I agree, Kay....While, I am not a high level skater (doubles, triples, etc), I am also not a low level skater...I tend to skate with a lot of power and speed (and my moves level is Intermediate). On our freestyle sessions we have such a mix of skaters, those doing doubles/triples all the way down to those learning 3-turns and mohawks. I have seen more near accidents in those situations than I have ever at public sessions where the low level skaters are in the middle practicing. I have almost taken a few of our lower level skaters out I'm always nervous about that...

I think some of the troubles on public sessions come in when more advanced skaters start practicing and there are too many people on the ice. Now, too many people is subjective...5 may be too many, 10 may be too many, etc. I think some of that has to do with the ability level and level of awareness of the public skaters. When I skate on campus here, I generally skate our "public" sessions (our rink is only open to students, faculty, staff, and alumni, and their families, so not truly public), because the freestyle times are when I am at work (they generally only run noon-1 and 4:30-5:30pm), but I am usually the only one on the ice. If I am not the only one on the ice, I am soooo careful with what I am doing, however, I am a lot more mobile on skates than a lot of the public skaters, so I do a lot of the avoiding if I'm doing moves or something...and if people are all over the place, I either move to something else that I can do in the middle or if it's really bad, I will leave because I don't want anyone to be put in danger because I'm trying to practice and they see a shiny blade in the air and want to touch it....