I'm just wondering if my coach knows what she's doing, what is usually in a no test program? I have a loop-loop, flip-loop, half loop-salchow, sitspin, and a camel-sit.

thanks!

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Those elements are fine.

You're allowed five jump elements, so if there's time/room in the program, you could also have two other jumps. It's a good idea to have some solo jumps anyway, since it's easier to show strong landings with solo jumps than with combinations.

There should also be some steps covering half the ice.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/conte...anJuvenile.pdf

No offense, but if you can do all that, why are you in "No Test"? Could you test Pre-Pre?

I was thinking the same thing. My friend competes 'no-test', because she cannot yet pass her pre-bronze freestyle - trouble with the waltz, slow 2-foot spins, tentative, etc. She'd have a heart attack if she saw you in her competition group!
I compete pre-bronze and I"D have a heart attack if I saw you in my group!

I think the OP is under 21, correct? We're talking about standard track, not adult track, right?

Those elements sound right for No-Test (standard track). Actually, most No-Test skaters at my rink have a lutz, and sometimes a lutz-loop combo. Basically, it's anything less than an axel. Most kids don't test up to Pre-Prelim until they have at least a semi-consistent axel or have won a No-Test comp at least once.

On the subject of sandbagging in Pre-Bronze....

Terri C and I competed once in Pre-Bronze with a skater who did a lutz (yes, that's right, a lutz, as in illegal lutz) as well as a flip, camel-sit, and sit-change sit. We'd never seen the skater before and except for this comp the following year (where she competed in Pre-Bronze again), I've never seen her since. It was her home rink and this rink also does a lot of ISI testing and comps, so I suspect this woman competes ISI and hadn't taken any USFSA tests, so she figured she'd just do PB (of course, there are ISI tests that disqualify adults from competing at certain USFSA adult levels, and based on this woman's skills, I wonder if she really should have been in PB, but obviously this woman and her coach didn't know much about USFSA adult skating rules).

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

I've seen a no tester pull a Bielmann out of her you know where. If it's not restricted, you will see everything and anything out there. Most adult no testers I've seen stick to the pre-bronze and bronze test elements.

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Champagne in 2005, 2008, 2009 - who's next out of the pre-bronze club...?

Wang chung!

LOL! I don't know about other rinks, but at the ones where I skate, all the coaches are teaching their students (starting with No-Test) how to grab their skate blade during spins (either flying/back camel to doughnut or upright/Biellmann/half-Biellmann. Gosh, this new judging system annoys me.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

To be honest, I don't get too worried about sandbagging. I figure if I skate the best that I can, I'll be pretty happy with my performance. So it really doesn't matter if I get beat out by a more advanced skater. Plus, you never know - my exquisite edges might beat out someone's sloppy flip!!! It does, however, make me want to work harder to get those elements, which is a good thing.

I judged an event in a Basic Skills competition where a Basic FS 1 did a Bielmann (or rather tried to do it). I've seen Y-spirals at that level or close to it as well.

IMO (which isn't worth much), certain moves should be strongly discouraged at levels such as the lower Basic Skills Freestyle levels. The skaters at that level should still be working on learning the BASICS of good skating, not practicing yanking their foot to or above their head, then nearly tipping over or wobbling into the boards.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

I remember seeing one skater in one no-test competition a couple years ago who had an excellent Biellmann spin, and excellent spins in general for that level or even for juvenile level.

But in general, for most skaters at that level, if holding any camel or layback position for at least 3 centered revolutions is a struggle, grabbing the blade is not going to improve the quality or overall value of the spin and will probably have the opposite effect.

I'm waiting to test prepre until I have a consistent axel, since everyone in prepreliminary usually does an axel, it's an unspoken rule. I think I've only seen 5 people in prepreliminary not do an axel in about 4 different competitions

And yeah, I'm 17.

thanks everybody.

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Not necessarily. There are many competitions that have a no axel pre pre grouping. I think it's ridonkulous that pre pre would have an axel, but that's JMHO. The only thing I'd be concerned with in no test is you'd probably be competing against some young kids. I know back in the day before I competed adult, I was 18 or 19 competing against 10 and 11 year olds. From your videos, you could defintiely compete pre pre if you wanted to!

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

My daughter skates pre-pre and everyone at least tries an axel. But not many people can actually land them consistently in competition at this level, so a good strong program without an axel, but with a lutz or a flip in combination would probably do pretty well.

I guess it really depends on your rink and your coach, and maybe whether the skater is an adult or not, but at our rink our coaches are very big on testing. The only time my DD skated no test was when she had failed her Pre-pre and honestly was at that level. She had a salchow, waltz toe-loop combination, scratch spin and not much else, but she did win. Thank goodness that our big comp we all go to in the summer has a set of test track events for the girls to compete in so that she and her pals can skate at the Pre-Juv level with the skills they should be working on at that level and no more, no less. I'm not saying the coach pushes them to test before they are ready, on the contrary, but that has always been her focus, to make sure their basic skating skills are what they should be before moving on, and competing at that level. I think it was a great response to the sandbagging problem - the Preliminary test level has no relationship whatsoever to the competition Preliminary level, which never made sense to me. I can't imagine waiting to test Pre-pre until you have a consistent axel, unless your focus is entirely on competing. We did have one skater from another rink that competed no-test and she was clearly so far above what I would have considered that level (her split jump was amazing!) that we all just rolled our eyes.

We offer limited pre-pre with no axels allowed but I know most coaches won't test their kids until they get an axel.

At the comp I put together, you are not allowed to do a lutz at beginner (that's no-test) level. If you want to do a lutz, you have to compete pre-pre!

j

It's interesting to see what goes in different parts of the country.

In my area, No-Test is all singles except axel and no flying spins (although I did see a flying camel in a Tots event (No-Test under 7) once). Some of the larger club comps (like Hershey) and the Basic Skills comps offer a Limited No-Test category, which I believe is singles through loop - no flip, lutz or axel. Actually, maybe flips are allowed.

The USFSA recently created a Competitive Test Track category (which some comps already offered under the name of Restricted) where each level is restricted to the elements in that level's test. What gets odd is that comps offering this category also usually offer a Pre-Pre group w/o an axel, and a Prelim group w/o axels or doubles. It seems a bit unnecessary to me to have 2 different events that essentially allow the same elements, but skaters have entered them, so I guess there's a market for both. IMO, where the test track really serves its purpose (getting skaters to continue testing and competing even if they stop being competitive as they progress through the levels) is Intermediate and up. By that time, most kids who are still skating are at the point where they're just testing, to finish the test stream and get their 'gold' medals, and not competing, b/c most kids never get the harder doubles consistent, much less double axels and triples.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Yeah, no kiddin'!!! This woman should be at Bronze.

Years back we have a Young Adults category at a local comp and there's two guys competing at Bronze. One of the skaters had a loop, salchow and toe loop... just barely enough to pass Bronze. The other skater had an TWO axels and a double sal and this is his first Adult track comp. Needless to say, second skater was frustrated why the first skater placed above him. I unfortunately made the mistake of telling him why, who promptly went and ask his coach what's going on. Said coach then YELLED at me, throwing her XX years coaching experience into the argument and "how dare I challenge her authority!!!" before taking off with the second skater in a huff. Needless to say, the REFEREE had a talk with said coach afterwards and probably told her the same thing.

The next time I saw her around, I was trying to keep my distance from her. Instead she came up to me and apologized for her outburst. And that was the end of that. These days, second skater and I are skating buddies... he thinks it's cool how I managed to piss off his coach. Kids... Tee hee hee..

Lesson to be learn from this is... if you know that the coach did not bother to read up on the WBP requirements for the adult track and puts you out with skills that are illegal, have their coach go to the REFEREE and have a talk with them. Do NOT tell them that their coach didn't bother looking up the WBP requirements! Trust me! You'll save yourself a lot of grief...

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

We are doing test track for the first time but we are not offering it for beginner level since our regular beginner level is so restricted.

The thing about the test track, my dd is working on her Novice FS test but she really struggles with her double toe...but she can land a double lutz pretty consistently. So she's better off competing regular track where she can do her double lutz...since she's more likely to land it than a double toe which she can do at the test track.

j

There are no comps in our state that have pre pre a, pre pre b,prelim resticted ect. We have non test, which is anything but axel, pre pre and prelim period.The younger skaters like my kids usually have axle for pre pre, and at least a double sal for prelim. The older group 11 and up, are varied.
I think my daughter had lutz loop, waltz loop loop, camel sit pancake in her non test program.

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