I am working on the flip and the loop and boy they are hard! I barely get any height on either and I cheat them about 1/4 turn.

Any advice for these jumps? I think right now it is fear with the loop (you mean you just JUMP?? ) and with the flip, I think when I pick in I am waiting too long or something.

Any advice would be great!! Thanks!

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Sasha Fan
Supporter of Alissa and Amber Czisny

Presumably you are learning the loop from back crossovers? My advice for this jump is to really sit back on the take-off. The more you sit back on that outside edge the better the jump. It's a catch 22 though as it does need a degree of confidence to sit back. Don't pull your arms in too early either, but wait until you jump before pulling in.

As for the flip, the main thing with this jump is to remember to rotate your body. When my flip goes AWOL it's nearly always because I forget to rotate my upper body. Apart from that I can't really help much on this jump.

Nicki

The loop is tricky because it's the first jump you learn that you take off and land on the same foot and edge. If you can do a back three, proctice a few of those to get the feeling. I also learned a loop from a forward inside 3.

I too learned it from a forward inside 3, it helps you body get used to the rotation and also gets that free leg up off the ice, so you get your weight over the right leg, without cheating your takeoff by jumping off two feet.

Any flip advice is greatly appreciated. I now have 4 bruises on my right calf from hitting my leg with my blade crossing it over. And of course I can't stop two-footing the jump to save my life...

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Champagne in 2005, 2008, 2009 - who's next out of the pre-bronze club...?

Wang chung!

I had a terrible time with the loop but once I got it I couldn't believe that I found it difficult, it ended up as my best jump When I was working on doubles (sigh .... way back then) the loop was my most comfortable and the nearest (apart from the flip which I landed ONCE by accident when I was going for 2toe .... I always used to get mixed up with toe and flip as I found the flip easier to do than the toe I hasten to add that I never landed the 2flip again ). Anyway ... sorry to rattle on (as usual), I got the loop from a FI3 as well after weeks of trying it from back x-overs. It just gives you enough rotation to get you round which gives you the confidence to go for it which gets you the loop

Good luck, I love the flip and the loop

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The best whisper is a click

I'm working on these two jumps right now as well (just call me the "two-footed landing queen). I have major fear of the loop so apart from mentally committing to the jump before takeoff what has helped me get at least the roatation is 1) "spot" a point on the wall before takeoff (if you can get your head around, your body will follow AND it will help you not too over-rotate) and 2) remember to pull in your arms with force (again, getting your shoulders around properly will help your body follow suit). I was skeptical of the spotting trick when my coach first told me about it, but it really does work.

The flip is much easier for me (though still two-footed). To get height, think of your tapping leg as a strong pole vault, bearing all your weight before takeoff. Then picture your crossing leg lifting up as if it were hinged to you like a rocking horse -- it's hard to explain, but the point is to not let your non-tapping side get all floppy.

I'm one of those sickening people who found the flip quite easy to get but my old coach used to break it right down into pieces if people were having trouble with it.

Most of the time the problem starts with the initial 3-turn, don't control that and you've stuffed it right from the start.

Work on doing the 3-turn first and then when you're happy that the 3-turn is controlled and not overrotating you can add the stretch back/pick/pull in with a small non-rotated hop. Really concentrate on getting those legs crossed right from the top of your leg to your ankles. You can also do the stretch back/pick/pull in etc from a glide (so that you do it without the 3-turn throwing you off).

When that is really comfortable you can add the rotation, DON'T try and change anything, DON'T twist your body around to try and get you round as this will just throw you off axis. Use your arms to really pull in (left arm comes straight into the chest and the right side of the body and right arm roll around into it (like rolling yourself in a carpet!). I was always told to bring the right arm round and in on the horizontal rather than scoop it down and up again as this again can throw you off axis and doesn't help the rotation.

Hope that all makes sense, it's not second nature to me anymore but it's all still there in the deep dark recesses of my brain!

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The best whisper is a click

The flip is my best (and favorite) jump!

Here are some things that helped me:

1. If you doing it from a LFO3, make sure you get a good push going into the turn,
2. Keep your arms up and strong throughout the turn and into the pick, and
3. Really stretch back and bend the knee of the leg you're jumping off.

Good luck!

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I've got mad salchow disease!

Tasha- I also got the flip and toe mixed up! I landed the loop on my first lesson with it, but the flip..... It took me quite a while. I actually went on to the lutz and landed that before the flip!

JessicaLynn - are you doing a full revolution jump or half? Just want to know.
I was started with the half flip and key was to keep the 3-turn straight. That jump was the easiest for me and especially when I remember to use my thigh muscle to spring.

Had a lot of trouble with the toe loop until coach put me in the harness and had me do a "LI stroke, then a RI 3-turn (do not over-rotate going into the 3, keep 3-turn flat, keep free leg extended through out the 3-turn) check shoulders, then move arms down by sides then up and through, reach free leg back after 3-turn behind right hip, GRAB ice with toe pick, pull feet back together (R pulls in front of L) before springing - feel like a waltz jump" - from my notebook. It is the springing that scares the heck out of me

Don't know if any of this helps, but sometimes different wording rings a bell....

AnnM, you could be the "two-footed landing queen" in S. Cal and I'll be the "two-footed landing queen" in N. Cal! Deal???

I still have my off days on loops and flips. I do have more good days with loops and flips these days though. Like tonight -- it was a good loop night since except for one I landed ALL my loops on one foot, but my flips were all two footed (never mind twisted) landed. Last week it was the OPPOSITE!!! AUGH!!!

Loops: I can't get myself to do the loop from a FI3 entrance. It's always been a FI mohawk and then *sit* on a BO edge, curve on it and hop up for me!!! I feel much more secure with that entry. But some of you may like the FI3 entry better, so...

Flips: in addition to what's written so far, remember to keep your back straight thru-out the whole thing, It will help you to keep your rotation in check so you jump straight up instead of at an angle (which will most definitely will either force landing two-footed at best and a really crooked landing on your butt at worst.) Practice those LFO3 (or RFO3 in my case, since I jump CW) so that the entry is STRAIGHT on the blue line!!! And yes, reach back on that picking leg!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Great advice - thanks jazzpants, and everyone!

My coach has me (and another adult student of hers) doing the flip from a FI mohawk. In group lessons, we were taught the 3 turn method, but my coach thought I was getting too twisted around doing it that way. I think the mohawk entrance gives me a bit more control.

I've tried the loop from both the mohawk entrance jazzpants describes and the 3-turn entrance, but so far, the back crossover entry is the only way that allows me to really "sit" on the BO edge. Of course, it's still a monumental occasion when I land it fully rotated.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Yes, yes, yes! This was a "lightbulb" moment during my last lesson. No wonder Dick Button harps on posture so much. If your back is straight, you will have a better chance of staying upright and not needing to two-foot. Of course, I often underestimate the "straightness" of my posture, so I try to think of pinching my shoulder blades slightly to make sure I'm totally straight.

Both my coaches taught me flips with the mohawk entrance first, then I learned the 3turn entry. I find that I can control the 3turn entry better than the mohawk entry. The (temporary) trade-off is a loss in height, but I am sure I will regain it.....once I can skate again.

Wow, thanks everyone! What great advice.

I can't wait to get on the ice and try them again!

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Sasha Fan
Supporter of Alissa and Amber Czisny

Debbie, Keep practicing that entry. Then you'll have some great combinations, like a falling leaf, mohawk - flip.

The trick on both of these jumps--and especially the loop--is to resist the temptation to use your upper body to turn. It will never work (trust me!).

On the loop, rotation starts at your foot (i.e., the curve of the takeoff edge), then goes up to the hips. Once your hips turn, your rotation is guaranteed, and your upper body will naturally follow the hips. In other words, NEVER twist your upper body to the left (assuming you rotate CCW). Keep the right shoulder back and left shoulder forward to keep the torso checked to a little to the right all the way from takeoff to landing.

Also, if you think about pointing your takeoff toe as you take off on the loop, you'll find that it helps you jump straight up and gives you more height.