You're probably right. I have consistently either won or was a Silver Belle at Pre-Bronze. I kept thinking that the judges were pulling a joke on me given my crappy jumps. I figured that was the only thing that carried me well is probably that "second score."

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I'll have to agree with NoVa and Jazzpants. Particularly at Bronze, it's a matter of showing the judges you can skate. Skating is everything that happens between jumps and spins. Do you use your edges when you skate? Do you have good speed and flow? I remember when I was in Bronze, I thought I must have won this competition because I had completed all of my elements better than everyone else (including lutz-loop). But I came in third and was flabbergasted. My coach later told me that I had skated much slower than I usually did, and that was why I placed where I did. Boy, that was the single most educational skating experience I've ever had!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

I was wondering if anyone had any video footage or could describe the elements in their PB and B FS programs. I would like to within the next yr work up to a competitive Bronze program and would love to see what is the norm with routines at these 2 levels. Thanks!

Well this is probably NOT helpful to you at all because my pre-bronze fs that I'm going to be debuting next week is so not competitive...I'm not even doing a salchow...but hey you gotta start somewhere and somebody has to be last...and I feel like talking about my program - because I like it

My music is ashokan farewell - I begin with a back pivot, 4 cross strokes, a couple of crossovers, forward outside spiral, scratchy two foot turn, back outside spiral into a waltz jump ...some inside edges and turns with pretty arm movements, one foot upright spin, back progressives into a half lutz, LF0 3 toe tap RF0 3 turn toe tap to a half flip, lunge, those back crossovers where you hold the outside edge and and raise your arm - I don't know what they are called but they look pretty...waltz jump side toe hop which someday will be a toe loop, two foot spin...that's it I'm done, thank you thank you.

J

Well, husband's first programme last year, which he skated at Bronze at the Mountain Cup consisted of (imagine linking steps, etc):

Back spiral
Upright spin
Toe-loop
Straight line step sequence
Salchow-toe-loop combination
Forward spiral
Loop jump
Salchow
Camel spin (at least, this was what it was meant to be, but it doesn't always work!).

This year, there will be a flip, salchow-loop, loop-toe-loop and I'm not quite sure what the 4th jump will be. Probably salchow by itself.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

"back progressives" hahaha, I wish. Back chasses into a half lutz..I get those mixed up for some reason.

j

Pre-Bronze programs tend to run the gamut. When I was in Pre-Bronze, I competed against people who had jumps through a flip (well, once there was someone with a lutz, but that's not allowed), plus camel, sit and back scratch spins. Then, there were people whose hardest jump was a salchow and just had 2 upright spins. Speed and power varied. I also competed against someone once who was obviously a high-level dancer (or who had skated as a kid and just hadn't tested higher than Pre-Prelim) and had a layback spin, Ina Bauer, and an inside to outside (COE) spread eagle that took up about half the length of the ice. Her hardest jump was a salchow, but she won easily b/c of her overall skating. I've never seen her at any comp since so I assume her (and her coach's) thinking was she'd enter a comp once at a level where she'd be beyond competitive, and have an easy win. I can't understand why an adult would want to sandbag like that, but I guess everyone has different philosophies. Which shows that you can't judge your progress by how you place in comps.

Most Pre-Bronze programs have jumps through loop, and a sit spin and forward scratch, with some sort of footwork or connecting steps. At that level (well, really all levels), basic skating skills (stroking, power, flow) usually make the difference in placement.

In Bronze, the competitive programs have jumps through lutz (with the lutz usually in combo with a toe loop or loop) and there is usually 1 jump combo that has a loop on the back end. Most have a change-foot spin and a camel spin (either stand-alone or in combo with a sit spin). To be competitive, you also need to have great power, ice coverage, and flow and get good height on your jumps. And hold spins for at least 5 or 6 revs on each foot.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

My pre-Bronze program had:
attitude spin
waltz jump side toe hop waltz jump
salchow-toe loop
scratch spin
spiral
back spiral
flip
straightline footwork

To upgrade it to bronze we added:
sit spin instead of the scratch spin
Waltz-loop instead of the waltz side toe hop waltz
added a loop jump

The thing that my bronze program didn't have that many others did was a lutz or a lutz-toe loop. Also camel spins are pretty popular.

Thank you all so much!

Question: what kind of footwork do you all do? I am a pretty good jumper and spinner but the footwork is where I struggle - I have a hard time just seeing it and doing it - any combinations you could give me to try for a PB or bronze program? is it usually a series of 2 turns, etc?

My (once Pre-Bronze, now Bronze) footwork sequence consists of a combo of FI mohawks, FI double 3-turns, slide chasses, and some other quick steps. The key to doing good footwork is to bend your knees and stay on edges (not on toe picks). You want to cover as much as you can and make it look smooth.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Thanks Debbie- btw, what is a chasse?

Hard to explain online. It's from the Gold/Intermediate MIF. It involves pushing your blade into the ice with your other foot parallel, both on inside edges - you should hear a rip sound and generate some power from the pushes - get your coach to show it to you.

You know, it would probably make more sense to discuss a footwork sequence with the person choreographing your program, b/c footwork depends both on the steps you can do as well as what your music calls for. Inserting a random set of steps from someone else's program probably isn't the best way to go about it.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

They can look very similar.... the Willow Waltz has (for the lady) a back progressive run followed by a back chassé, and it's not always easy to see which one the lady meant to do. At least, not when the lady is me.

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Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Don't you do these in your learn-to-skate? I know our lot do. They're most commonly done on an inside edge. You are skating on an outside edge, either backward or forward, on either foot. You then place your other foot down beside the skating foot, on an inside edge, and lift the skating foot off the ice, keeping it parallel to the ice, for a beat or so. No push is involved, and you don't lift your foot too high - just clear of the blade. It's important to remember the first edge - the movement is edge, chassé, edge - too many people rush the first edge. You can do inside chassés, but they are harder, I think. Not impossible, though, with a bit of practice.

A slide chassé is similar, but the foot is slid forwards off the ice, rather than lifted straight up. It's really hard to do these well without sticking your behind into the middle of next week. And a closed chassé is just another name for a cross-behind, where the foot crosses close behind the ankle of the skating foot before being put on the ice. The skating foot is then lifted off and placed beside, or in some cases also behind, the (new) skating foot, to push off again.

Most beginning skaters - and not a few intermediate ones - spend ages skating round and round the circle doing chassé, closed chassé, or chassé, slide chassé. Or round and round the rink, on alternating feet.

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Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Yes, at level 4 of LTS UK I think, introducing the forward crossover at level 5, then backward chasse at 6 ...

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UK Passport (figure)
Bronze : PASSED 13-Oct-07 Woohoo
Silver: PASSED 08-Dec-07 Yippee
Gold: Backspin PASSED One Foot Spin ____ Toe Loop ____ Programme ____
The impossible is just a journey away ...

I will be taking my Pre-Bronze moves test at the end of March and wondered if you have to test for Pre-Bronze Free before competing?

It depends on what's in the competition announcement. Most competitions will allow you "skate up" a level, so, in that case, you would not have to pass Pre-Bronze FS in order to compete in Pre-Bronze.

I competed Pre-Bronze before I tested. You can skate up or skate "No Test"

Check out this thread from last month.

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=22517

Maybe the moderators could merge them?

Threads merged.

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All you really need in PB or Bronze is 1/2 rink length of things like 3-turns, mohawks and toe tap/half jump type things.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

I skate Bronze and my footwork consists of forward & backward 3-turns, rockers and twizzles, but I've really worked to step it up from last year when all I had was forward 3-turns and mohawks.

Now I just have to work on pushing myself to do the footwork well because it's at the end of my program when my legs feel like dead weight.

No twizzles for me, but I do have a FI rocker and some back threes/double threes in my footwork, for the challenge. And the back threes are actually more comfortable for me in the direction opposite from my spins and jumps, so that lets me change direction.

It's not quite at the end of the program, more the beginning of the second half, but keeping up speed is an issue. Also it's right after a spin, so I need to add a progressive to come around the corner from the spin exit and a chasse to get myself un-dizzy before I can go into the rocker with any speed.