I was wondering if anyone could describe some of the elements in a competitive Pre-Bronze and Bronze FS program ex. some of the winning routines at AN, etc(I know there was a thread on this but I cant find it anywhere).

Thanks!

They have pre-bronze at ANs?!?

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

No, Casey, no Pre-Bronze at Adult Nationals. AN starts with Bronze FS... but there are No-Test and PB categories at Adult Sectionals.

As for the original question... what was medal-winning a couple years ago, may be different this year and the years to come, because of the impending changeover to IJS. A few years ago, many of the younger Bronze skaters attempted (and some even managed to do) flying camels. Obviously, those are no longer allowed. And lutz/loop/loop and flip/loop/loop were jump combinations in the same program by some skaters.. again, no longer allowed (only one 3-jump combination now and four loops in one program violates the Well-Balanced Program content).

I think it also depends on what age category you're talking about too.

Why don't you instead tell us your age (or which age group you'd be in) and ask what people on this board in that category are putting in there programs for this year to give you an idea of what is likely to be seen?

Ahh ok, I didn't know they did pre-bronze at sectionals...that would have probably motivated me to go start testing...oh well, there's always the coming year.

I have another couple questions but will step out of this thread as I've hijacked it enough. Sorry!

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

My 2006 AN Bronze program included:
Back upright spin
Waltz, toe
Flip, loop
upright spin
Sal
Spiral
Lutz
sit spin

Mowhawks, threeturns, crossovers, on the "betweens"
Speed, flow, extension, are things to show if you got them

That was my Gold medal performance for Bronze men class III.

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Why are you skating so slowly? Get out of my way!

If you skate faster, it makes everything look better!

Although it looks as if I will be taking this season off to move up to Bronze, I will tell you that in my neck of the woods, Pre Bronze is now what I call "Bronze Without the Lutz." You will see spins up to camel and all singles up to flip ( the full lutz is a no- no in Pre Bronze)

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

Thank you! Im 26 now so I think I'd be class I?

I competed at 2005 AN (I was 25), I did:

Lutz/Loop/Loop
Flip/Loop
Camel/Att spin
Straightline sequence into salchow/toe loop
Lutz
Scratch Spin

Happily took the gold that day

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Tim David's Website

yeppers, Class 1

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Tim David's Website

I was in Bronze I last year (I got 10th out of 10 at ANs) and will be in Bronze I again this year (I am about to turn 28).

Last year, my program had flip/loop, lutz, flying camel, spiral sequence, loop, layback spin, stag/toe/loop, way too easy footwork sequence and catch foot/back sit combo spin. At ANs, I fell on my lutz, botched all of my spins and flaked out on the stag/toe/loop so it ended up being a stag/toe/hoppy thing. Not to mention my 2nd mark was probably really low.

I don't remember exactly what the winner had in her program (though I skate with her now, so I could probably just ask her!), but I know she had 2 lutzes, with 1 in combo and footwork with bracket-change-bracket. She also has lots of personality on the ice and lovely jumps.

My new program is MUCH, MUCH better for me technically and artistically

A common misconception. Adult Sectionals are more like any old non-qualifying competition (such as Peach Classic or New Years Adult Invitational) than they are like Adult Nationals. And that's because most of Sectionals IS non-qualifying. So you'll see all the skill levels & age classes & "throwaway" events like Spins, Compulsory Moves, Jumps, etc.

If you're even *thinking* about a particular competition, check online for the announcement from the previous year to see what kinds of events were held and what the testing levels are.

Thanks so much! How about the elements in competitive pre-bronze at regular comps?

Not to throw a wrench into the works, but due to the fact that the AN announcement was published before the corrected version of the adult well-balanced program rules was published, the latest news is that they are NOT going to be enforcing the jump repetition rule at AN this year (or at Sectionals, if the others are following the same rules as Pacific Coast). Instead, you will be allowed to do each jump as many times as you like, as long as you only do it once as a solo jump. They will be limiting combinations, of course, so that you are allowed only 3 combinations, of which only one can be a 3-jump combination. So you could hypothetically do 6 loops in your program without repeating the same jump element. For example, you could do a loop, a loop-loop, a flip-loop and a lutz-loop-loop. I'm not saying I'd recommend doing all loops and no toeloops, just that it would be allowed.

An announcement has already gone out to everyone registered for Pacific Coast Adult Sectionals saying that the wording of the WBP rules here:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/Programs.asp?id=112

is what will be used at Sectionals. Tony Conte (Adult program chairman) has also personally confirmed to me and several other adults that the jump repetition rule will not be used at AN. He says he plans to issue a clarification so that people know that the wording in the competition announcement (and the USFSA link above) supercedes the wording of the corrected rulebook pages.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

I won 2nd last year at ANs in Ladies Bronze I. My program had:

Sal/loop
loop
Sit spin
Spiral sequence
footwork (edge pulls, alternating mohwaks, some little hoppy steps, and rocker)
lutz/toe-loop/loop
flip
camel/sit/upright

The pre-bronzes I watched at sectionals usually tried a lutz and definitely had at least a flip, sometimes in combination. Loops and down were strongest. Footwork and flow were the biggest difference between the Bronzes and the Pre-Bronzes, I think.

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"Without a struggle, there can be no progress" ~ Frederick Douglass

Prebronze now has a limit of no lutz

my competitive program last year contained:
loop that eventually change to a loop/loop
sit spin
lutz
spiral sequnce
flip/loop that changed to a waltz/tap toe/flip
camel
footwork
salchow/toe loop
attitude spin

results were mixed...

my last competitive pre-bronze program had:
one foot spin
change foot spin
waltz/waltz
waltz/toe
half lutz/toe
spiral
waltz 3s into a salchow/salchow
two foot spin

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Champagne in 2005, 2008, 2009 - who's next out of the pre-bronze club...?

Wang chung!

My Pre-Bronze program last year (basically the same as my current Bronze program with a few changes) had:

back scratch (now just a back pivot, b/c of the new 2-spin restriction in Bronze)
loop (now loop-toe)
RFO spiral
sit spin (now sit-back sit-back scratch - if I ever do it right in comp - lol)
footwork (alternating FI mohawks, double 3's on both feet, slide chasses, and some hoppy mohawk-type steps, into a bunny hop, which has now changed to a flip jump, if I can do it w/o getting 10 minutes behind the music)
waltz-toe into sal (now just a sal-toe)
toe (now a loop)
forward scratch spin

I never won with this program in Pre-Bronze, but I did finish second a couple of times (once to a total sandbagger who should have been in Bronze, at least, but that's a whole other story ). Generally, in Pre-Bronze, the hardest jump you see is a loop, but at NYI, last year, the winner in Pre-Bronze II/III did 2 flips, 1 in combo with a toe loop, and a camel, plus a very low sit and also a backspin. Sandbagger at May Day Open had a lutz (not allowed in Pre-Bronze), all other singles and a waltz-loop, plus a change-sit and camel-sit - you usually don't see those spins in Pre-Bronze, at least not done to a high quality. The main differences between Pre-Bronze and Bronze are power and flow across the ice, jump height, and spin speed, positioning (lower sit spins, for ex), and number of revs. It's rare to see combo spins in Pre-Bronze, but most Bronze skaters have at least 1, if not 2. And Bronze skaters are also doing combos with a loop on the back end, which are usually not seen in Pre-Bronze, although based on what I saw at HC, I think we're going to see less X-loop or X-loop-loop combos in Bronze than in the past. Of course, with the jump repetition rule not being enforced at AN, who knows what will happen there.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Last year my bronze program was intended to include the following elements:

flip
salchow-loop
connecting steps and hops to toe loop
camel/sit-back sit
half-rink diagonal steps
half-lutz, turn, loop
back spiral
layback

Then I got injured before the competition I had signed up for, so I watered it down considerably -- I was just happy I was able to skate in the competition at all.

If I compete again this spring, I'll try to add another toe loop, either in combo after the flip or between the half-lutz and loop. Or instead of the last loop if I want to try for salchow-loop-loop combo.

When I'm ready to start trying the whole lutz again, I'll probably get a new program so I can put it closer to the beginning.

My Pre-Bronze FS (Group III) program from last year at Sectionals had the following:

Spins:
Backspin
Sit spin
One spin

Jumps:
Waltz-toe loop Jump
Salchow
Flip (probably should have done a toe loop that day since I chickened out of it during the actual comp , but it felt great at warm-up....)
Loop

Others:
RFO spirals (me too, Debbie!!! LOL!!!)
LOTS of fast connecting footwork and steps!!!

I came in 2nd at Sectionals and won my technical event at Skate SF 2005 with it!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

dang, I may need to make up one of JazzPAnts old Pre-Bronze for life cards. This is intmidating. The few competitions I've been to, I've always had to skate up at Bronze FS because not enough PB men signed up.
Lyle

But Team, you're male which makes it TOTALLY different!

That's right! What's competitive for us ladies may not be the same for the men. So you might NOT need the "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" membership card!!! You might be surprised to find that you'll actually do just fine at Bronze.

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I will never forget that day. Debbie and I were watching this skater (Debbie was the first skater in our group and I was the last one) and the looks on our faces were just .

The program I would have competed with this year:
Backscratch spin
Inside spread eagle to LBO extension to toe loop/toe loop combo
Five step mohawk done in opposite directions
Sitspin
Diagonal line footwork to salchow
Half lutz/ three turn/ waltz toe combo
Crossovers to eight step mohawk sequence
Second sitspin or forward scratch
Yes, my secondary coach who does choreography is a task master, so the loop is at the very end. For my Bronze free test, it's moved up to the beginning!

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

I shouldn't worry, Lyle - Husband has done very well indeed at Bronze last season with just the following elements:

Upright spin
Camel spin (this is now broken, we don't know when it will mend!)
Cherry flip (sorry, toe-loop)
Salchow
Salchow-cherry combination
Loop jump

It's different for men! He's hoping to have a flip jump by the time this season starts, and just possibly a loop in combination, although he's not too sure of that.

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Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

As Terri C mentioned, it depends on where you are competing and which competitions you are entering.
When I was in bronze, I did these elements and was always striving to add more:

flip
camel/catch camel
lutz
waltz, half-loop, 1/4 flip, flip
sit-change-sit
loop/loop
diagonal footwork sequence
flip/half-loop/salchow/toe loop
flying camel (no longer allowed in bronze)

Plus spread eagle, hydroblade, and spirals

I'm still convinced it all comes down to speed; flow; posture; expression; and good, basic crossovers.

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
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