Ok guys......I'm sick of this spin...

How's everyone doing with their backspin? Have any of you conquered the piggin' thing yet?
Would you like to share those secrets?


I'm on month 18 of trying to get this spin.
On a good day, it is 50% there - on the back outside edge, with 4 - 6 revs and an exit edge. The other 50% don't even resemble backspins at all!

Problems

• Going on to the middle to back part of the blade whilst rotating.
• Mis-timing the entry into the 3 turn.

Most commonly heard tips from my coach to me:

* Press down with the right arm/hand during and after 3 turn. (CW skater)
* Press the free leg back on the LFI edge leading to 3 turn.
* Turn the free hip out.
* Don't lean back.
* Lift the skating heel, press down with the free heel.

Sometimes these work, sometimes they don't.


HELP!!!!

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MEL
Absolute Skating

Well, isn't it interesting that so far 100% of the poll says their spin comes and goes like their salary?! I don't try backspins as often as I should, since I was lucky enough to have it when I needed it for the Bronze test.....but I sure would like to have it consistently again.

For me, the entry is the whole deal. When the entry is right, the spin happens. The 3-turn needs to be smooth with no scraping...not rushed. As I'm doing the 3-turn I am concentrating on the freeleg back at first...and then focus on the freefoot being turned out at the turn to open up the freehip. I can't think of the hip...I have to think of my foot to do the job I also need to maintain a slight kneebend on the entry or I'll rock to the wrong part of the blade.

Oh....too many things to think about!

Something must be wrong with me. I LOVE this spin. It is so much fun, and definitely feels more natural to me than a forward spin. I wish I had some helpful hints, but I didn't struggle learning this spin. It still needs tweaking (doesn't everything?), but it's still my favorite (in any position). I can center this spin no problem, but give me a forward scratch and I'm all over the planet. Go figure......... Now that is the spin I avoid like the plague.

Mine's actually in good shape. I think it's something that will just come with time. I worked on mine when I needed it for a pairs test (try doing side by side backspins ) and then not again until I was working on doubles. A good back spin is suppose to make for good doubles. For me, my doubles gave me a great back spin.

I don't really need a backspin, since I do so little free skating, but I'd quite like to have one. However, I don't even really have a forwards spin yet, but I do have a decent RFI/RBO twizzle/double 3, whereas my LFO/LBI one doesn't usually work. So I reckon I'd be more likely to be able to do a backspin than a forwards one, at this rate!

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Michigansk8er and Flo

Please tell me how you do a backspin.
How do you make sure you remain on the right edge and part of the blade? There must be some sensation that you feel (maybe pressure on your wee toe, where the body weight is, what you do with your arms) while you are spinning?
I've asked everybody and mainly they give me replicated advice, but the trick is to to tell me HOW it is done, not what to do, as I already know. HOW do you keep weight over the right spot? How do you prevent from going on to the wrong edge?

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MEL
Absolute Skating

I replied that mine is "good" but "decent" would be a better adjective. I cannot blur a bspin and do not consider a bspin truly good unless it is very fast.

Anyway, I learned the bspin early in my skating and struggled for many years with it. I recently discovered the secret from my old coach. You should learn the bcamel as well. I wrote about this method in my journal. http://www.skatejournal.com/sept01.html#paradox

Kay

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Hi Mel.
The sensation I feel is the same as when I'm in a jump, which is why I believe the doubles gave me a good backspin, and not the other way around. When you are in a good jump position, you are spinning over the right side. So in a backspin, I try to keep my wieght over the right side - in a nice line from the blade to the top of the head. I find mine easier to get into from a jump. Try doing a jump and landing with your legs still crossed, and not checking out. If that's ok, try landing in a spin. A loop jump is good for this. It will also get you use to the feeling of the sweet spot on the right side.

I've had so little time on the ice in the past year that my backspin is less than nowhere. But when I was working on it occasionally, I could never break past the point of doing a double three instead. I simply can't figure out what it takes to STAY on that back edge. Even when it feels like I've done it for a complete revolution or more, the tracings prove I haven't. I've tried it from multiple entries, tried various 'tricks', but none of them have really worked. The best tries came when another experienced skater watched me and gave me tips--made me almost 'drag' the free leg until the hook, then pop up and flip the hip over---but I never had the chance to really get a lot of practice, and I can't say that even that helped me stay on the proper edge, but my body position was better.

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Open hips? By nature, I have very open hips, which allow me to do things like Ina Bauers fairly easily, but I have found that if I open my freehip when trying the backspin, I will always fall to the inside edge. (Most likely I'm lifting the hip too.) My coach told me to close the free hip (my left hip) upon the snap into the spin, and I have achieved my better backspins this way. I can get over my right side easier, and I don't raise my hip. I'm just curious about the open hips since we tricked my body into the correct position by closing the hips--then again, different techniques work in different ways for all of us.

Kay, I concur about learning the back camel along with the backspin (provided one can do the forward camel). I haven't worked on my flying camel in a while but straight away I could get 1-2 revs on this move, as well as with the back camel. It forces you to get over your spinning leg.

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All that glitters has a high refractive index.

Oh, that piggin' backspin!!! I hate it!

I'm on month 27 of the backspin... I'm going on the BO edge but immediately lose it and go on the inside edge. OTOH, Jay likes the leg position now. (Before he wasn't getting anywhere with me on it.) I should record myself on it again, huh? (Right now 42.86% of those who responded to the poll says that it's non-existent. I'm one of them!!!) The other thing is that I'm always spinning...just not on the BO edge.

Jay is still on the "matches" simile... I'm the box of matches... and each backspin attempt is one match. So far, NONE of the matches is lighting up long enough to light the campfire.

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jazzpants

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Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I suppose the open hip/turned out freefoot may not be everyone's position, but it worked for me. If I stand on my right foot with my left leg pointing in front, my weight is fairly even on my standing foot. If I then turn out my freefoot and move the leg slightly to the left, my weight shifts to the outside of my right standing foot. I guess my body is compensating to maintain balance.

Here's another fun exercise to try....hop around backwards on your right foot (like a backspin) with your freeleg straight out in front...then move the freeleg to the left and turn out your foot....do you accelerate? Wheeeee!

And to think I hated physics in school.....

Yep! Fun to do at home--I have hardwood floors, perfect for such a thing!

Awwww.....I kinda liked physics....I majored in it in college! Every time I go skate I pass it off as a hands-on ("feet-on?") physics activity!

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All that glitters has a high refractive index.

I thing you would like my coach, Miss Indigo...she's constantly calling out, "physics violation!"

This is not my skill. As I've heard from my coach, "You can do everything wrong and still manage to do something." (Well gee, this is just lovely! =-/) I have managed to do be okay on this at times, and then it vanishes to God only knows where. Even during my better times it goes down the tubes during lessons. The backspin and then my coach watching me is just too much for this gal! I did show him my best ONCE. Must have been a miracle or something. He knows that I can, just probably believes it must be a miracle to see it too =-) Personally this is the skill from heck for ME. I do practice and try like heck though.

Chico

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Ok, I did about 40 or so - too much? Or not enough? I'd say 70% were ok, including the one I did in my lesson, first time, with 6 revs and a (slow) running edge out of it. But it is not good enough. Like Kay said, a backspin is not a backspin unless it's fast and long (or words to that effect).

Free hip....turned out or not????
I've had very definite advice to turn out the free hip after the 3 turn. I've never heard anyone say to deliberately close the hips.
But just because they don't say it, doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. And if it works and looks fine, who's to care?
BUT I have to say that turning out the free hip, does help me, especially with the back sit spin. This is where I notice it the most. if I don't turn the hip out, I haven't a hope in Hades of staying on the outside edge of the skating foot - for some strange reason.

I tried very hard to get a backspin out of the loop but it wasn't having it. All I could muster was a couple of back 3s, nothing centred or remotely resembling a backspin. I try it "regularly" with the waltz too (more for axel practise) but again, it is lacking.

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MEL
Absolute Skating

I also have to think about turning out and opening my hips, because if I don't, chances are my free hip will fall down and in. (Bad stuff..)

The backspin has been coming and going. More often than not it's getting the timing right and getting the balance on the right part of the blade. When it's good, I can feel it accelerate, but it's not fast yet. Oh well, one thing at a time I suppose...

When I don't get the timing, it's usually because I turn too early. Someone recommended that I wait on the RFI edge longer before I started the rotation, and that helped a lot. Your free leg should be be held loosely to your side. At least that works for me, LOL...And when I think about "flipping" the hip over, I usually overdo and topple over, LOL. So now, I think about "nudging" the hip rather than flipping it. We can flip later, but we have to get the timing first. Although if you're travelling outward and doing little BO3s, it's because you're not nudging hard enough. And if you're tripping over the toepick, tone down the nudging, LOL.

When my balance screws up, it's usually because of the timing, LOL. But the sweet spot is right behind your toepick, and when you hit it, you'll know it. (Don't worry, it took me a looong time to get that! When I started out, I'd be happy if I could feel the sweet spot for 1 rev!) Your weight should be slightly beyond your right shoulder, but it's definitely not in the middle of your body, or else you'd be spinning on a BI edge instead.

When I do get a good backspin, it's easily my favorite spin - it just feels so neat! But I can spend forever kicking myself when I've lost it...

Anita