They've posted the Requests for Action for this year's Governing Council. There are several items related to Adults and Adult Pairs.

http://usfsa.org/MemberNews.asp?sid=42450

Please let your club's delegates know if you agree or disagree with the proposed rules changes.

Or, we can certainly discuss them here!

Rob

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2010 Adult Nationals - earning a gold - "Priceless"
2009 Adult Nationals - competing with a cold is not much fun.
2008 Adult Nationals - Too little sleep, too much vodka!

Well, I'm not a pairs skater so I can't comment on those proposals - Rob, NoVA, flo...?

I know plenty of people here will be happy that (assuming it passes) IJS will be used for Gold and Masters events at Sectionals. I think it's a good idea.

I had already read through the proposed MIF changes, so no surprises there. They make sense to me. But I'm not so sure I like the proposed January '10 implementation date. All other test changes have taken effect in Sept, which seems right b/c the Regionals qual (test) process for that year is over. Plus, there's so much else going on in January, like Nats, and then next year is an Oly year - I don't know if it's the best time to implement major testing/judging changes.

(not to mention it decreases the chance of my ever passing Int MIF - I'm not sure I see loops and twizzles in my future, and it's highly unlikely I would even be able to pass Gold before Jan, much less Int, oh well....)

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

They are still wrong.
There needs to be an option for those passing a juvenile pair test before the pair test was changed to skate silver. It STILL says that for silver you can have no higher than the pre-juv test or the standard preliminary test which does not even exist. Also, under the gold, it needs to be clear that one can only skate down 1 fs level. It says intermediate free or higher. The higher is incorrect.

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I was poring over the document last night. I like most of the proposed changes. And hey, gold/master pair teams can now do throw triple jumps. Yeah, we'll get right on that!
3-jump combos are no longer allowed (to be in line with standard-track pairs?). This will also encourage some teams to do harder jumps. Doing a flip-loop-loop is worth 1.5 (1.65 in the bonus time), whereas, say, an axel-loop is 1.3 (1.43 in bonus).
It's also nice that the pair combo spin requirements have been changed from a minimum of 5 revs on each foot to just a minimum of 6 revs (with 1 change of foot and position).
I'm not sure why carry lifts are not allowed.

I am so glad that IJS might be coming soon to a sectionals near you. It's qualifying under one system (6.0) then competing under another. Yes, IJS judging costs more (maybe there will be a surcharge now for gold and higher levels?), but there are also proposals that may save clubs money when it comes to getting officials (lowering the requirements for adult sectional championship referees and accountants).

I am also impressed with the items that deal with lowering the hurdles to getting a judging appointment.

I personally like the Jan. 1 moves deadline. That gives me more time to pass intermediate moves. It will also give *coaches* more time to learn and perfect the loops, twizzles, etc. Most of the younger coaches have never done these before!

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In the MIF proposal last year, there was a whole year planned for training before the changes went into effect the following Sept. Now they want to shorten the training process by 8 months. I don't think that's a good idea - as you said, both coaches AND judges need time to learn about the new moves and what's expected. I think the changes should go into effect in Sept of '10 - that will give you (and me, lol) even more time to pass Int MIF.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Meh... I don't see myself passing my next moves tests before Jan 2010 (or even Sept 2010) for that matter, so meh, do whatever you want. I'm preparing according to the new rules!

BTW: My crazy NYC coach last Dec. started me on twizzles! (Just the FI twizzles though.) I think he's NUTS but then again, I thought the same last year when he threw in this FO-BI bracket exercise the year before that!!! Now, I'm playing around with the Gold brackets just to see if I could do it. (Nope! Not yet!!! )

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Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Agreed — I think the shortened schedule for implementation isn't good. Especially for smaller clubs, it will be difficult to train and disperse the information to skaters and judges. If someone doesn't isolate the timeline for discussion at GC, I'm going to do it!

I have a problem with the Silver & Gold pairs test requirements. Under the propoased pair rules, if you passed the Juvenile freeskating test back in the dark ages before there even was a Pre-juvenile, you are forced into Gold pairs -- even though that very same test allows you to skate Silver as a single. ?? Why is there no consideration for the Oct. 1994 date in the Pairs test requirements?

ETA: I also agree that rolling out the Moves changes in January is too short a time period.

Otherwise, I like what the Adult Committee has proposed. Good work!

Skaternum - EXACTLY!!!! I sent a spreadsheet to the adult committee, the pairs chair and the Adult chair comparing all the current and former pair test requirements. This clearly illustrated the inequity between the original preliminary pairs (now juvenile), the current juvenile test and the adult tests. In addition the requirements continue to list the preliminary pairs test as a qualification, and this test has been removed, once again, and those skaters are now prejuv. pairs. However the original preliminary pairs testers are still juvenile!!!!!!

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Agreed. Sept. '10 would be better. I thought you had meant September of this year!

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Oh no, lol! That's what happens when I try to post in a hurry.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Also the wording in the exception for gold pairs is incorrect. If the point is to allow skaters with gold pair tests to skate one level lower than their free level, it should read Intermediate, not intermediate or higher, as higher would be two levels. Novice should be in masters pairs, not gold.

Exception: Teams in which at least one member has passed the adult gold pairs test or the standard juvenile pairs test may choose to participate in an adult gold pairs event even if one or both members of the team have passed a standard free skate test at the intermediate level or higher.
Committee Vote: Adult Committee: 24 yes, 0 no, 10 abstain; Pairs Committee: 27 yes, 0 no, 3 abstain
Rationale: This proposal further clarifies the test requirements for adult gold pairs implemented for 2008-09 and will allow skaters to compete in pairs one level lower than their free skate level if they have completed a pairs test. As it was published this was not the case in 2008-09.

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After seeing what purports to be a passing Senior MIF these days, maybe they should implement the more difficult test earlier. Or require some judges to take vision tests.

For the competitive pairs test requirements, they still have a wording issue regarding the first partner and the second partner. If I have passed the Intermediate Pairs test, according to the proposed wording I can be the second partner and compete in Adult Gold Pairs as long as my partner's highest test is Juvenile Pairs, because I meet the requirement of having passed not more than one level lower than my partner (who would be the first partner in this case). I'm not saying that I should be allowed to compete in Adult Gold Pairs using this interpretation of the rules, and I agree that the rules should not be interpreted in this way, but currently as the proposal is written it is possible for someone to interpret the rules in this way because of the poor wording.

I agree with those who think that the new MIF should be implemented in Sept 2010 rather than Jan 2010- they should give coaches at least a year to learn how to teach the new moves, and judges the same amount of time to learn what a passing demonstration of those moves would be.

But the coaches have been exposed to these moves at last years PSA seminars and certainly this years annual meeting. I attended one at Hackensack last August where they went over the new moves and had kids demonstrate them. Also the videos have been up on the USFSA website for over six months. Most of these moves were supposed to pass last year but they got sent back to the committee for tweaking. I don't think there's any thought that they won't pass this time so coaches should already be learning these now.

There are some important reasons why they are being changed and the change can't wait. Some of our current moves are no longer relevant to IJS' changing standards (bracket-3-bracket) and some of the moves are being condensed (fwd inside 3s/quick rocker choctaw, back 3s) to help clubs better afford rising ice costs during test sessions. From a club standpoint it will cut out a lot of time and save $$$. I know our test sessions hardly ever break even.

I don't know what's being done to train the judges though...that's a different issue.

Fractals - I believe you would be the first partner in masters. The first partner is ths partner with the qualifying tests for that level. If you take a look at the levels given for the second level, they are below the Juvenile pair test. The wording is confusing.

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But a lot of the moves proposed last year got changed. I remember there was some counter and twizzle move (and the same one with the rockers?) that got taken off, and some others. I saw the proposed tests for last year and the ones for this year look very different to me. So even if coaches saw last year's introductions, they still need to learn this year's.

As for the videos, isn't there a disclaimer on the website that they are not necessarily done to passing standard?

Also consider that many coaches don't attend the PSA annual meeting b/c of logistics, expense, and other issues. Plus, while a lot of coaches have seen the videos on the website, many are in a wait-and-see mode, since the moves haven't passed yet. The big question among all the coaches is what will be passing standard. Most of them did twizzles and loops as kids, but it's hard to know how to prepare their students for testing them until they know what's expected for each move and level.

As I understand it, most local PSA seminars feature a local judge or two talking about passing standards, comp judging, new rules, etc. The judges are going to have to be trained on the moves and know what they're doing before the coaches will, and this all takes time.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

ITA, not to mention that we won't even see them spelled out in rulebook form until October or so.....

The proposed MIF demonstrated at last year's PSA conference were, as I recall, pretty much being shown as if they were a done deal and we should all start teaching them--then they didn't pass! So I wouldn't dare start teaching the current proposals--or working on them myself--until they've actually been voted on. Since I can't make it to the conference this year it will probably be September--the nationwide seminar closest to me (500 miles away) before I can see them demonstrated properly. That makes it tough to hustle along and have them testable by January of 2010!

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I wouldn't say "most of the coaches" - at least the newer younger coaches - a lot of them never did figures and I'm not sure ANYONE learned twizzles back in the day... anyone? Were twizzles ever a standard sort of move?

I hope they wait until September 2010 for the Moves to change for the tests - as a judge I think we will need at least that long to get everyone on board.

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They will be in rulebook form when the Combined Report of Action comes out.

How many coaches attend those things? Not everyone can afford to travel to the PSA annual meeting (maybe one coach from my club goes) and seminars don't always come to every area in a timely manner.

Maybe some coaches weere introduced to last year's versions. However, as people have pointed out, they have completely changed in many cases. Also, kids demonstrating them doesn't equate to coaches being able to TEACH them. Coaches will need to learn the proper passing standard, the theory behind all of the moves, what the judges are looking for, the mechanics, etc. This doesn't all come from watching a couple of people demonstrate the moves whether on video or in person. Then you add the judges needing to be trained and the simple logistics or changing the test sheets, etc. None of this happens quickly or easily.

Further, coaches right now are finishing programs and such for the summer season. Early season comps are just around the corner for the younger set, and adult nationals are coming up for the older set. When are they supposed to be learning new moves that may or may not come to pass? Also, there are hundreds of skaters who will need to/want to take tests before any date of changing the moves. That means they need to be taking the tests that are currently on the books, which is what coaches are focused on teaching.

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I was told yesterday that the Jan 2010 date is for pre-pre through Intermediate, and novice through senior would be effective Sept. 2010. Is this true? That would be helpful, at least the higher levels get longer to get through the old/train coaches/judges, etc.

I understand .... The moves that were introduced at last year's annual conference did in fact fail at GC But later in the year once the moves were tweaked and the new proposal was written they were being taught again at the state level PSA workshops later in the year. It's the assumption now that they will be passing as is. ITA that not everyone can get to the annual conference (though I think if you are really coaching as a career full time you ought to go at least every few years but that's JMHO) but there are also region and statewide seminars everyone ought to be able to attend if they want to be in the business of coaching. If you were an accountant and the tax law changed would that be an excuse not to learn the new law?

Some of the moves are just combining what's already there and moving things around. The young coaches who never did figures might have a hard time with loops but loops were only on the 3rd (juv) figure test so they weren't all that high up in the test track even back then. The tough loops were the paragraph and serpentine versions. Thank goodness no one is asking us to do that! ...or even trace them. Twizzles have always been a part of dance and they are frequently part of most kid's footwork from Juv on up. The forward twizzles are only 1 1/2 turns. I see many of the kids use them as part of stroking warmups.

I guess my point is that other than the loops & twizzles which will be tough for some, the changes aren't all that earth shattering and most of them are for higher level skaters. Chances are that a coach experienced enough to teach senior moves is old enough to have also done figures (for the most part), and probably attends seminars anyway. Right now the coaches get updates from the PSA on the changing IJS rules almost weekly They already have to stay on top of a ton of stuff.

I for one am glad to see the moves get harder and I think the changes address at least most of the problems with the current moves. Not to mention that it's just too easy to get a gold medal now.

The real problem with timing will probably be judging. Do they require judges to go to judges school when rules change? I know nothing about that side of things.

LW