I've sort of posted this question before, and basically I have come to the conclusion that I'm stuck with public skating sessions for now. I'm a beginner, but a not hanging-on-to-the-boards-and-falling-down-all-the-time beginner. I do pretty good and can maneuver around people, things and have really only fallen a couple of times (read further, though, I haven't had the opportunity to do too much risky stuff that might cause me to fall)

I feel like I'm in a catch 22 situation regarding practice time. The only option I have right now is to practice during public sessions, which have been very crowded at best and dangerous at worst. I can manage to practice forward facing stuff that doesn't require too much --- basically some simple swizzles and maybe one foot glides and stopping. But in my opinion, I would be risking life and limb to try any backward moves, as these sessions are full of kids who either do not know or do not care that there are others on the rink....except for the little hockey ninjas who cut in front of everyone going in every direction. I don't mean to sound harsh or like I don't like kids. That's definitely not the case. It's just I'm being told by most on this board and also by the rink personnel (on the phone) that I need to be higher level (still didn't get clarification what this means..was told my coach could tell me) in order to be safe on a freestyle session.

My question is this...how do I ever get to that higher level? I know that I need to practice at least 2 (3 is better) times a week to get any level of proficiency. If I'm limited to public sessions, I just don't see how that's going to happen. I am honestly too busy and worried during these sessions about everyone else (and there's a lot of everyone elses on the rink). At least during a freestyle, the number of people on the rink is limited, but that's apparently not an option for me at this time. So I guess what I'm asking is, how did you all progress from beginner to the point where you were safe for freestyle sessions? My rink says that there really are no "low" freestyles, so that's not an option. Any tips? I tried going to the center of the rink today, but even that was troublesome. There were 4 or 5 little girls in there practicing and I couldn't find a patch there that would be away from the crowds, but give enough room to practice even backward swizzles.

Help....I really want to skate, but it seems like so many other things I've experienced in life....it's hard to get in from the outside! Or maybe it's just my state. I live in Florida. Just kind of discouraged right now!

Kathy

Hi

I'm sure that we all can completely understand how you feel and it is about time that rinks addressed the problem, there must be more than enough people to fill a 'beginners' patch yet somehow they don't seem interested in accommodating them.

Just a few ideas:

Are there any public sessions that you could get to during the day or before work? These are often quieter and allow you to practise more than on the manic public sessions.

Is there a figure club at your rink? It's worth looking into and could be a way to get an extra practise in where you're not having to look out for everyone else and their dogs.

Do the group lessons have practise time before or after the lesson? Ours USED to have half an hour practise after the session (they changed it but that's another story). It may be worth looking at that option too.

Canvass other beginner skaters and put pressure on rink management to get a 'novice' patch for lower level skaters.

I was actually very lucky and got onto patches quite early and it did make a difference. At least the skaters on there generally knew what they were doing and could avoid the newbies You also get used to the programmes and the dancers so you learn where to avoid.

All the best

__________________

The best whisper is a click

What public sessions are you going to? Weekend public sessions are usually a lot more crowded than weekday public sesions, and the beginning and end of each session is usually less crowded than the middle. That's the case at most rinks I've been to, anyway. But assuming you are already on the least crowded public session times, all I can recommend is: (1) looking over your shoulder at all times while skating backwards, (2) only skating as fast as you can change edge or stop, and (3) being more assertive in your right to be taking up the space you are taking up on the ice.
As far as the last one, it's the difference between driving the freeway totally intimidated and driving the freeway with a sense of entitlement: Signal, look in your blind spot, then edge the nose of your vehicle between the front and back car in the next lane so as to tell them you are going into their lane, not asking permission to do so. If you go to the center of the rink and act like you belong there, people will start giving you more space.

I sympathise completely as I've been there too - practising only on weekend public sessions (basically I didnt' even realise at the time that there were public sessions in the week I could have gone to!!!! ) Now I can practice daytime sessions and these are usually pretty empty.

My friend and I used to look for the least used corners to practice turns and spins - there's always one somewhere. Other than that, you end up spending a lot of time watching the flow of people and sometimes you will suddenly see one end or the other seems pretty empty and if you get there fast you can practice maybe half a circuit of backwards before the 'flow' catches up with you again. Not easy.

Our rink was pretty good and did provide half hour practice sessions after, or before, group lessons, on a coned off quarter of the rink but of course with lots of beginners you still had to watch out. Now they have a half rink for a half hour (may even be an hour) on a Saturday morning which is better.

If you can go with a friend you can take it in turns and one practices while another acts as lookout/way clearer.

We also had club ice with practice time in between club group lessons and while these were always busy, at least people were aware of ice etiquette and the better ones would look out for you and hockey skaters weren't allowed.

The rink also used to have non-disco tea-time sessions (5pm-7pm)which were sometimes fairly clear especially if you got there early.

It might be worth your while to go in and observe a few freestyle patches at you rink and see if there is one that is generally less busy that you could maybe ask to go on. If you can make mornings before work you might find there is a time around 8-9am when the highest level skaters who tend to practice earliest have gone and the ones who are left are younger school kids and lower level which would be better ice for a newer skater to use. Depends of course, on how your rink allocates it's ice times.

High level patch can be worse for a beginner than a public session as you have lots of very fast skaters going in all directions, jumping and spinning and working very hard. It's not very safe for a beginner and not fair on the kids who are practising for competitions etc. to have to look out for beginners who may not be able to stop well, change their direction easily, or tell what they (or anyone else) are going to do next.

Hope you find something.

__________________
'skating is not just a sport - it is an obsession'

Actually, if it's difficult to find sessions that are fairly quiet, then there's probably not much you can do about that. The only solution would then be to just try find out which sessions usually have the least number of people. Or if possible, go to a rink where there might be less people, like at a university ice rink during the weekdays. I don't know about florida, but I do know that at the uni of colorado, you could skate there on a full size rink all by yourself sometimes for a couple of hours with absolutely nobody else on the ice during the weekdays. And people didn't have to be students to skate there, and you could even buy semester passes, so you could skate as much as you want whenever the rink is open for public sessions - which is often many hours a day actually.

I like doubletoe's advice about being more assertive - I think you should try to step over your fear and just turn around and try to go at least a lap or two backwards trying to not get distracted by the dashing kids - they will figure out that they need to watch out for you.

I practiced on weekend public ice until I started doing private lessons, which was when I already could do a waltz jump and two-foot spin. I think it helped me to learn to "switch off" and to focus on my skating and nothing else.

I still practice on public ice pretty regularly - normally during the 1st hour after patch time is over, and the ice is still not too crowded. It's also a great boost for you self-esteem when people come up to you and say "how do you do that?" or "you skate really well!" - because for public ice standards you will pretty soon be quite an advanced skater (i.e. someone who can go backwards and turn on one foot).

So please, don't get discouraged - public sessions are fun!!

__________________
My other car is a Zamboni

At my rink, freestyle is open to you if you are proficient in back crossovers (minimum requirement) or working with a coach. That being said, every drop-in session has been empty except for myself and one other person . Perhaps you can find a dropin session that is very light and low-level that you could attend?

I also don't like public sessions because I don't like crowds (I also avoid the mall). However, the very ends are a good place to work on things, as is the center (usually-I'm going by what I've observed at my home rink and my 'summer rink.')

You might want to ask if you can attend the practice/warmup session that is after your lesson as well; or see about maybe attending another practice/warmup session another day of the week (either option may cost extra).

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Definitely look for weekday public sessions. Many rinks will have a lunchtime session, which often contains just a smattering of working people on lunch, and the odd figure adult or child, and a few adult hockey skaters trying to get in some exercise. In my experience (two different rinks, one university, one regular, states apart), there's usually 20 people or less on these sessions, and they're often 'regulars'...so you all tend to get to know each other's patterns, and can stay out of each other's way.

If the busy sessions are your only option, then definitely assert yourself. If you're still shaky, get more forward experience before you try backward, so your knees are definitely under you. In theory, the center should be reserved for figure skaters/lessons skaters, but in practice, the guards/management are usually lousy about protecting it for this purpose. As long as that's the way it 'should' be at your rink, be agressive about protecting it for yourself. Yeah, you run over the odd child there, but it's your space too, and you have a right to practice there. Like someone above mentioned, sometimes the corners/ends on a public session are fairly empty--the 'circlers' tend to cut corners, leaving the ends relatively free. Stake out an end and use it to swizzle back and forth, if that's what you need. Be the first person on the ice, and the last person off--you can often squeeze in a bit more 'empty' ice then, although at the end, it's pretty rough ice.

__________________
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
--Thomas Jefferson

www.signingtime.com ~sign language fun for all!

My rink has or used to have group lesson "practice time" specifically for folks enrolled in the group lessons to practice for 30 minutes or so. I believe that anyone wanting to skate on that session had to show proof that they were in the group lesson program.

Separately, we have a lot of beginners (LTS types) who are allowed on our freestyle sessions, both with and without their coach. It's more or less okay with the coach, but it can quickly become a safety issue when you've got beginners on the same session as junior and senior skaters training for international competitions. The reaction time and knowing how to watch for the high level skaters and how/where to get out of their way isn't always there for these beginners. And while the high level skaters should be watching out for the beginners, sometimes it becomes very difficult to abort the set-up for a triple jump at the last minute.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

[QUOTE=TashaKat]Hi

Just a few ideas:

Are there any public sessions that you could get to during the day or before work? These are often quieter and allow you to practise more than on the manic public sessions.
I have 2 rinks in my area. The one closest to me has public sessions only on Saturday and Sunday. I would prefer to go to this rink before work (earlier the better....definitely need to be done by 7:30 am), but that time is reserved for freestyles. The other rink is about 40 minutes from my home, 20 minutes from my work. They have more public skating, mostly on weekends. They do have a public session weekdays M-F from 12:00 to 1:45, and I'm going to try that Weds. I've arranged my work schedule so that I can come in earlier and take a 2 hr lunch. That will allow for drive time and allow me about an hour to skate. Neither have any early public skates.

Is there a figure club at your rink? It's worth looking into and could be a way to get an extra practise in where you're not having to look out for everyone else and their dogs.

I think both rinks have clubs. How does that work? Can anyone just pay and join? Once a member, what are the benefits? I'd be willing to pay for this if it could get me some ice time (feel like I'm trying to "score" something illegal or something!)

Do the group lessons have practise time before or after the lesson? Ours USED to have half an hour practise after the session (they changed it but that's another story). It may be worth looking at that option too.

Unfortunately, no.

Canvass other beginner skaters and put pressure on rink management to get a 'novice' patch for lower level skaters.

Good idea....it will ultimately help everyone.
Thanks!

[QUOTE=Skate@Delaware]At my rink, freestyle is open to you if you are proficient in back crossovers (minimum requirement) or working with a coach. That being said, every drop-in session has been empty except for myself and one other person . Perhaps you can find a dropin session that is very light and low-level that you could attend?
I called the nearer rink to me and asked them exactly that...was there a lower level session that I could attend....she basically said that no, there wasn't, that they have "level seven" skaters practicing and doing camels and axels and that it would be dangerous for me. I have a hard time believing all sessions have level seven skaters and no low level, but whatever...I wasn't going to argue or debate with the lady I spoke to. I did ask her how I would know I was ready for a freestyle and she said that my coach could tell me.

It's a catch-22. You want to try and prevent the very low level skater from either being injured or causing an injury, while at the same time, encouraging the skater to stick with things until they are not such a low level skater.

FWIW, I've seen several very close calls between high level and almost beginner skaters, and have been involved in one myself. In this case, my coach and I had priority [our dance music was playing and I had the "right of way" sash on, we came around the end of the rink, the coach was near the beginner and tried to get the kid out of the way, but the child fell too late for us to track around her. We ended up widening our dance frame so she was between our 2 sets of feet, but I skated over her glove not knowing if her hand was in there or not, until afterwards (I didn't see the glove on the ice). Luckily the fingers weren't.

When I'm in test/competition prep mode, we will keep going if our music is on and we have the right of way. Either I or my coach will try and yell to warn skaters we're coming through, but it doesn't always work.

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

It's always a problem-you need extra time to practice but you work. You are not good enough/confident enough for freestyle sessions/public sessions with others zinging around, etc. Vicious cycle!!!!

As soon as I found out about the skating club, I joined. However, I confined myself to the corner and worked on elements there for some time until my skills/confidence caught up. I'm out in the middle now, zinging around everyone, but still don't like public ice!

I would ask your instructor or coach about the freestyle sessions, as there may be one that is lower level or less crowded. I find it hard to believe that ALL are level 7 (whatever that is). The woman may not even have known what she was talking about!

Too bad you didn't live near my rink as our freestyle session is under-utilized! And, at $7.50 for 1.5 hours, it's cheap! You hear that, Pat!!!

At least you can wiggle your work schedule (that's what I do). I skate on Thursdays during the day session and find sometimes I'm the only one there! When that happens, it's backwards skate time!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I almost exclusively skate on public sessions - always have and probably always will as a means to keep the cost of skating down.

On weekend publics, where it's crazy crowded I wait for "windows of opportunity" to do stuff. This cuts into a lot of free skating time, but I make due with what I have. Usually the middle of the rink is reserved for figure skaters, but this tends to get very crowded with the little ones trying to do skating moves when they really shouldn't, or with lessons - so I try to stake out a small corner and work on what I can.

You should also know that its very hard to skate on freestyle as a beginner too - this is another reason I stay away from freestyle at my level. When people are zooming by doing double jumps and flying spins I a) spend more time watching than working on my own stuff and b) get all tense because even though they know what they're doing I certainly don't and I don't want to run into them. I also dislike the attitude of some of the snotty skaters on freestyles. Not to say everyone is snotty, I just know a couple of "ExCUSE me!" types - like I take up SO much room and they can't go around .

This is just a test for you - you'll find ways of working around public sessions - if you can, aim for the early mornings which tend to be less crowded - or speak with the skate guards and get to be buddies with them so they cone off the middle and really enforce kids NOT skating through - I've done this as well and it works great. Consider yourself lucky - there are a lot of rinks that won't let you do ANY figure skating or skating backwards on a public session.

That's right...exactly right. I think it all boils down to individual skaters and their attitudes. In public sessions, you'll always get 'problem' skaters, be they figure skaters or other types of recreational skaters. Everyone has probably seen certain individual snobby figure skaters in a public session that think everybody needs to give way to them when they skate in the direction opposite to traffic flow in preparation for a jump or something. And then there's the odd individuals in hockey skates that tear around the rink at high speeds through the crowd while forgetting that other skaters (either experienced or inexperienced) could somehow skate across the speed demon's path....an accident waiting to happen.

Maybe if skatermommy wants to practise backwards skating a bit before doing it on-ice is to grab a pair of PIC skates and practise on a concrete basketball court (wearing protective padding gear of course). Obviously, stopping technique on PIC skates is different, but at least you can do some backwards skating practice on them, and other things without having a bunch of people get in your way.

I would assume you are working a 9-5'er, therefore it makes getting to anything besides a public skate during your lunch break very difficult. I'm not sure where you are from, or if my assumptions are correct, if they are not, please disreguard them. A thought of mine, (if you know of any other skaters in your area, adults/beginners/or anyone that loves to skate) is approaching rink management and finding out how much they charge for an hour of ice. This can run anywhere from $100-crazy amounts, but if it's on the cheaper end and you can find some skaters to split the cost with you, my guess is the rink would gladly sell icetime to you, if they have it available. Perhaps early a.m., or the hour before public skate, or after. There is usually plenty of downtime at rinks and they would love the extra income. If it's to pricey, how about half-hour, and give up a resurface? If you have competitive skaters in your area, chances are there might already be early morning icetime, but I'm guessing you already checkied out the club ice situation. From the looks of your name, you have kids, so you would need a time around them, or if they are young where you could bring them
A simple solution would be to ask the skate guards for cones and put them around the center of the ice. You'll get the kids that are trying to be cool and go in and our of them, but they are few and far between and you won't have to be so tense about hitting someone. Good luck.

If you have no choice but to stick with crowded public sessions, definitely arrive at the beginning and plan on staying through to the end. The beginnings and ends are always least crowded.

I sometimes coach on public sessions and have witnessed way too many close calls among skaters, so some other suggestions I have are:

-Do forward skating on the long axis. Work on increasing the speed, push and length of each forward stroke. Push harder into the ice on each swizzle. If you're comfortable, begin working on forward outside and inside edges. Practice your dips. I love doing shoot-the-ducks and power pulls going down the long axis of the rink.

-Along the short axis, work on elements that require turning. There's usually a little more room here, so it's a good place to practice crossovers, both forward and backward if the rink isn't too crowded. Practice turns from forward to backward. Exaggerate your knee bend to limit your body's reaction to any surprise bumps.

-Go into the far corners of the rink--beyond the hockey lines--to focus on elements that require your full attention, such as backward skating, one-foot three-turns, full edges, etc. This area is rarely as crowded as the center, so it's a good place to practice. Just watch out for true beginners and the wall-huggers.

-Avoid going backwards down the long axis unless there really is only a handful of people on the public session. You can never predict what a child on the ice will do, and depending on your own comfort and speed, you may not be able to see the child and/or stop in time. I often see adults skating backwards inadvertantly hit a kid who has skated into their path that they didn't see. Granted, kids are even more apt to crash into someone while skating backwards, but their smaller size makes the accident less pronounced.

Keep in mind that rink public sessions will most likely stay crowded into March, due to the Olympics next month and the ensuing interest in figure skating. Crowds should taper off noticeably in the springtime.

To be honest it depends on the club but is probably worth looking into anyway.

My first rink had a 'figure' club which was quite a small club and was mostly geared towards adult and novice skaters. We started with a figure patch although you could do 'field moves' as long as you a) kept inside your patch and b) didn't jump or spin. It worked really well. The second half was for free skating though there were a couple of dancers on there.

The second rink had a 'junior' (kids) club and a 'senior' club which tended to be more adults than higher level skaters. It started with a 15 minute warm up, you then had practise or lesson time and then there was a 15 minute session in the middle which varied from dance moves, field moves, artistic or just plain fun. Then there was a 15 minute dance 'interval' and the rest of the session was for lessons and practise.

It's worth asking how the clubs near you run, you aren't going to lose out and may even gain some extra practise time

I agree that you probably need to get more forceful in your skating but it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation ... you need to skate to get the confidence, you need to push yourself forwards to get the skating! Not easy, I've been there, I've been the little flower in the corner desperately trying to practise! The confidence does come with time, I promise

__________________

The best whisper is a click

Regarding clubs, my club had a fee for joining (like an admin fee) and then you bought ice time depending on the number of times per week you wanted to skate. Granted, right now we only have Saturday, Sunday and Wednesday ice times, but we are a relatively new rink (going into our fourth year).

Joining the club also got you "in" to the ice shows (if you wanted) although the part you got may not have been what you wanted (yeah, some kids wanted to be a snowflake but ended up being mice....)

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Yep--me too. I was lucky--I arranged my school schedule around the noon public sessions, which were $1, and skated those 4 days a week. With <20 people on the ice, it was really great practice, most days.


Well, there's the truly snotty types that do this, but you do have to remember that kids who are training for a competition have a *set* program, with elements placed in specific places at specific times...and they really can't always go around you--it screws up their timing and muscle memory. (Referring to skaters with their music on, here--any others can certainly get off their high horse and go around.) Skating freestyles requires some give and take on both sides.


Yep! I have a friend who has totally buddied up with the teen guards and the rink manager, and she's so close now that they'll give her a call if they are grabbing some empty ice on a Friday night to fool around with sticks & pucks or something. They'll give her half the rink to use, while they mess around on the other half. (It's a university rink, has lots of empty ice.) That's pretty unusual, but it's definitely worth your while, in case some random public skater complains about 'that "dangerous" woman trying to figure skate out there'....the guards will likely be on your side, not the stranger's.


To veer slightly OT here....this has always bugged me--lessons on public ice, I mean. Yes, I know many rinks do this, but to me, public ice is just that--for the public. First priority to the average Joe, second priority to those practicing skills. Rinks/clubs HAVE (or should have) designated time for lessons, whether it's morning or evening or weekends, whatever. They shouldn't make the average off-the-street skater feel like they don't have the right to stumble around, or like they're always in some higher-level skater's (or coach's) way.

__________________
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
--Thomas Jefferson

www.signingtime.com ~sign language fun for all!

To give a different perspective on this one... I teach at my rink, and that includes teaching private lessons during public sessions. To skate on a freestyle session, a skater must have passed (ISI) FS 3, which means they can do a salchow, a toe loop, a change foot spin, a couple of spirals, etc. So skaters who have not reached that level have no choice but to have lessons and practice on public sessions. OTOH, the rink offers public sessions 7 days a week, and multiple sessions most days, so there is lots of time available.

Sometimes I skate at another rink which allows basically anyone on freestyle, and it's downright scary; you have kids working on forward stroking and crossovers on the ice with senior-level competitors...

__________________
Where are those knives when I need them?
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I need a detachable left foot!

Dare I think that you are referring to the same rink that I was talking about?

Had to dodge a LTS private today who was working on a 2 foot glide with his coach. Luckily she knows the dance patterns and got him well out of the way before we came through with the American Waltz.

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

Fair enough! I should have clarified--the only students I'll work with on public sessions are beginners or those practicing moves that can be done in limited space (forward skating, glides, occasionally 3-turns, etc). A public session can be a perfect place for a beginner skater who doesn't take up much room to learn to skate. However, I make sure my students understand that other skaters have as much of a right to the ice as they do.

That being said, some coaches and students do dominate rinks during public sessions (I'm not specifically referring to the previous post, I noticed it after I'd written my own!). I was on a public session with a basic skills skater once when a competitive dance team told us to get out of their way because our presence kept forcing them to alter their patterns. However, their speed and set patterns made it impossible to judge when they'd pass by. I've also heard of a coach who brings multiple competitive teams to public sessions and has them do formations blocking the whole ice in order to intimidate the other skaters--they apparently stop when they have the ice to themselves.

Some skaters genuinely need lessons on public ice because they're not advanced enough for freestyle, others may seek public ice due to a preferred ice time and cost. Where or how can we (or rink managers) draw the line that distinguishes the freestyle from the public skater?

The daytime public sessions at my rink are not very crowded. When I first started fooling around on skates, I just went around in circles for a while and did crossovers on the corners. (It's not like time spent on basic stroking is wasted.)

A young woman who was skating then used to manage to practice her backwards skating by skating very close to the wall; if it's not a crowded session, people tend to leave a small berth by the wall. Helped her get her confidence up.

I'm a 9-5 working mother, too. I skate on the crack-of-dawn Saturday AM freestyle. There are usually four-five USFSA preliminary and novice level skaters, a brand new to pairs team of preliminary freestylers, and a venerable ice dancer who leaves them all in the dust and me.

I know the patterns of their programs and get a good sense of what individual moves they are working on while I warm up before hitting the ice, so I have a general idea of where it's safe for me to practice my wobbly sctach and back spins and wrinkly turns and edges. I make sure I'm the last to leave before the ice cut and fly (for me) around the rink backwards when no one else is out there. The zamboni is usually pull on the ice at one end when I'm stepping off the ice at the other.

I'm hardly what you could call confident, but give me a six-foot area in a corner and I can practice almost anything. On a public session, I stake out a corner and make sure no one gets in there with me (except an occasional wall-hanger-on-er).

You just have to OWN that little slice of ice...