I was wondering how other skaters handle adversity in skating. When I know in my heart that I can do something but I'm not able to do it I get really mad (might let some explicatives fly). Instead of quiting in frustration I'll keep at it for as long as it takes. The longer it takes the madder I get. It took me 6 or 7 years to get a double flip. Does that border on a psychological disorder?

No, it's a perfectly sane condition called determination! Wish I had more of it myself. I tend to throw in the towel when I can't feel the ice and get totally stymied. I do go back to whatever it is on another day, but I can't push myself once I start feeling klutzy.

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If it is I have it too! The flip does that to me. There have been times when it got me so mad that I did the jump because of it, because I was mad at myself for not doing it when I've done it before. The mind is just...bizarre...

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Revised Official 2010 Goals checklist
Skate __
New boots __
(lowering the bar for 2010 as I haven't skated in a year)

Add me to the disorder group - my hang-up is the axel. If I feel that I'm losing it, I'll pound away for a 1/2 hour or more (usually making it worse). I have started to learn to let it go for the day when things start to look hopeless. On the good side though, after 3 years of pounding and crashing, I have a real legs-crossed-fully-rotated axel. Now if I can just stop freaking out when the music is playing and pull it off in the program . . .

No, but I would suggest learning some relaxation techniques. Often jumps work better when you're relaxed and calm.

I used to pound away at my jumps and all I got was two hip surgeries and several years of nothing. (There was a congenital issue but the jumping was most likely the catalyst)

Learning how to skate again has taught me to be more pragmatic, reinforcing bad technique does nothing to help my skating. I work on singles with good form and if things don't go well I work on something else and then come back to it later. I feel absolutely no obligation to go out and do things poorly, I would rather skate a clean program with good jumps and solid spins than attempt cheated doubles and scratch my way through my program. I shot for a score whether it be on 6.0 or IJS. I try for 3.0 technical and 3.4 for present since I skate Int/Nov and I try for an IJS score of 25-35 as my goal for the year. This is the first year I can actually attempt level 1+ spins so I focus on those. Jumps are great but in the end a skater with solid singles under IJS can beat a skater with cheated doubles.

So being determined is one thing but being realistic, at least IMHO is the better route.

Just my .02 cents.

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Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

I completly agree. By no means do you have a psychological disorder, but do you consider yourself a perfectionist? Often athletes who are perfectionists (both on and off) the ice tend to get stressed out more easily, which only adds to the frustration and anxiety of having difficulties mastering a certain skill, spin, jump, etc.

Geez! I thought you were posting some thread about handling crazy skaters during the public sessions or something, kander!!!

No, it's called determination. That said, I don't know. I mean there is a threshold where my body essentially says . Of course, my secondary coach is MORE determined about me than I am and as much as I like the determination, my lower back HATES her for it afterwards!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

You know me, don't you...

__________________
Revised Official 2010 Goals checklist
Skate __
New boots __
(lowering the bar for 2010 as I haven't skated in a year)

Nothing says it better than this----
But with practical advice, may I suggest not doing the 'problem' for two weeks. Often your brain will work in the background and you'll be able to do it better after a pause. If you keep doing something wrong, over and over--you're training your brain to do it wrong. I've often found a pause in developing a difficult skill is extremely useful. Haven't you ever noticed how after coming back from a 2 week vacation you're stronger and more coordinated? If the pause doesn't work you haven't lost anything

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Great forum quotes:
On Falling: '...it doesn't matter, it's what you do AFTER you fall that's more important' ISK8NYC

i am definitely heading to the loony bin with my axel...

about 2 months of two footing the axel..
one day - landed it, lost it (50/50)
3 weeks' skating - no axel
one day - landed all axels
next day - landed all axels bar one
next day - no axel
2 weeks' skating - no axel

what's next..?

I tend to get really annoyed, then depressed for like a day, then I'm happy again and motivated "I'll get it next time!"

but I'm way too superstitious about the whole thing. i.e if I don't blink for 2 mins I'll land the axel/if that person looks around at me, I'll land the axel.. it's insane.

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"Sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long, and in the end, it's only with yourself."

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Skate Free

Wow, this is exactly what I'm doing with my loop! Since I first landed one in September some days I do almost all clean ones, the next day I do 20 with a tail on them and one clean one, and the next day I can't get up in the air at all. The next day the whole cycle starts all over again. I get so frustrated I could just scream!! And since I can't test bronze free until I have another consistent jump I'm stuck at pre-bronze, which looks weird in competition when I do programs with a sit-spin, a camel, and a hydroblade in them. Very annoying.

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You miss 100% of the shots you never take.--Wayne Gretzky

I have the same problem with the loop, the flip AND the lutz!!! VERY annoying!!!

If I were you, I would go ahead and test Bronze anyway. I didn't have a consistent loop when I tested and I barely passed Bronze FS based on the strength of the rest of the program.

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I'm right behind ya, trust me.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

That used to be me as well. Unfortunately, doing something over and over eventually leads to overuse injuries (when overdoing the flip, the common one seems to be hairline fractures in the shin). I eventually had to learn to practice smarter, not harder, i.e., limiting my attempts and doing conscious problem-solving instead of just trying it over and over. Now I do my training exercises (for example, salchow-loop for the double sal) for the problem jump until the takeoff and air position feel right, then I go for it. If I don't land it after two tries, I go back to the training exercise, then try it again. Once I've tried it 10 times, if it isn't working, I let it go and come back to it another day because I've found that my body gets tired, my confidence goes and it just gets worse if I keep trying it after that point. Plus, the last time I got obsessive and just kept going, I had to take a week off because my foot started developing plantar fasciitis symptoms from too many takeoffs. One step forward, two steps back, KWIM?

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

yeah, I wish I'd read this before the whole axel saga began. I know NOW to stop practicing if it's completely useless, and wait until my lesson. that first day I landed it, I got way too excited and just kept doing it over and over again (literally, for about twenty minutes) so I guess I got tired and lost it. Then I kept thinking, "I'll do it one more time, and I'll land it" for another ten minutes. Then I landed one - thought "oh ok just one more".. lost it. vicious cycle..

good to know I'm not the only one

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I think the reason figure skating is so addictive is the same reason gambling is addictive. I remember in psychology class we studied operative conditioning (B.F. Skinner, pigeons, etc.) and learned that the strongest habits are created not when people are rewarded each time they perform an action, but when they are only rewarded some of the time and the rewards come at unpredictable intervals. So we skaters try a jump over and over and over because we know that sometimes we will land it; we just don't know which times! Fortunately, the more strength, skill and technique we involve in our jumps, the less is left up to chance. The less tired you are and the more aware you are of proper technique, the higher percentage of jumps you'll land, even though you're only attempting 10 instead of 50.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Ooohhh that is GOOD, doubletoe. I think you're on to something there...

__________________
Revised Official 2010 Goals checklist
Skate __
New boots __
(lowering the bar for 2010 as I haven't skated in a year)

OMG that must be it!!! Like playing the freakin' slot machine.

ok, maybe with this next one I will WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHEESH!!!!

think I can still move up in my tests without a sit spin???? I will NEVER get one with my back the way it is.....I'd have better luck trying for a double axel at this rate (delusional thinking either way)

yet still I skate

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I need to keep reminding myself of this. My knees are bugging the crap out of me, probaby thanks to beating myself up over axels because I'd rather do i it may way (i.e. go for it a ton of times becauase I almost landed it last time so if I do it one more time maybe I'll land it) than my coach's way (drills). In turn, other things suffer, like my program, because I spend so much time on two elements (axel and flying camel) and not enough time doing run-thrus. It needs to be the other way around--I don't *need* an axel to be competitive in silver, even silver I (skaters the past 2 yrs have made the podium at ANs in silver I without even attempting one b/c everything else in their program was so good). But I'm spending so much time that the things in my program that *should* be good and hold me up without it--footwork, presentation, my other jumps and my spins--are starting to suffer.

I work full time and go to law school at night (4 nights a week). Skating should be my break from everything, but it's starting to stress me out more than school, and that's not the way it should be.

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2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

Anyway, they "adversity" I've been dealing with in my skating practices is that my head is so jumbled with craziness and negativity (thoughts that don't even have anything to do with skating) I can't land my jumps clean or crank out enough revs in my spins. I need to re-focus!

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This space has been put on hiatus for retuning....

Black Sheep, I would die for your spins. They are awesome. (Mine, not so much so. Blech.)

We all go through head games. It's the nature of the sport.

Re the over and over thing, I've been working on the 2sal for six years now. The axel came back almost immediately (I'm a child skater). The doubles did not. So, obviously what I was doing was not working. Have now been doing them off ice on the recommendation of my Mom-coach, and I feel much more comfortable with the 2sal. I am going to have it very soon. The people at the gym look at me like I'm insane when I go into the corner to do them - but that corner has mirrored walls, and the room to do them so I do them there!

Sometimes it helps to go outside of the normal training, KWIM?

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

Yeah, PLEASE don't obsess over the axel! Our knees only have so many axel takeoffs, double sal takeoffs and sitspins in them so don't waste them! 2 years ago I did too many axel takeoffs and sitspins and my knee started hurting all the time. I had to take several months off from any left leg takeoffs and forward sitspins, which only set me back. Moderation is definitely the key!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Great analogy!