Hey Sessy if you insist on doing so many floor jumps and twisting your ankle then try this, it is a floor axel exercise that Anita Kershorn taught us at a summer camp a couple of years ago specificly because it is so easy to injure yourself doing floor Axels:

you need a raised platform to land on - most people use a STRONG box made of wood about 30cm high, 30cm wide and 100cm long placed up against the wall. It also helps to tack some foam padding up on the wall. The goal is to land up on the box after 1/2 rotation with your landing hip striking the wall.

For CCW jumpers, stand with your left side about 100cm from the wall. Draw back and leading with the L shoulder jump up, kicking up the R knee and then turn/snap into it (as described in previous posts) so that you rotate 1/2 to 3/4 turn at just the point when your R hip smashes into the wall.

This exercise teaches you to lead with the skating side, to jump up and to snap and rotate over the landing leg, and to point your landing toe. Since you are jumping up to get on the box, you don't get much stress on the landing leg. Since you only rotate 3/4 turn you don't put so much twist in the ankle. Since you are trying to hit the wall with your hip you can't whip the rotation. Well so they say I rather liked this exercise but gave up as not having a strong wall available to hurl my body at.

Have fun
Lyle

Yes, that's an excellent exercise and it helped me get my axel on the floor. I call it the "bench exercise" because I always used a bench that was secured to the wall at my rink. I was taught to do just 1/2 turn, landing backward on my landing foot and in an open loop jump position (arms open and rounded in front of me, free leg in front with knee lifted and foot in front of my landing shin). When you can do this and land with total control in that position (not hitting the wall or over-rotating), try it on the floor and just pull in once you get to that point. When you land, you will have done an axel.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

I live in a student dorm house and I don't have a free wall in my room...

But I'll try to arrange something.
Can somebody maybe post a video of this exercise?
Cuz I don't get how you would smash with your right hip into the wall at 1/2 rotation, shouldn't your butt do? And at 3/4th rotation, wouldn't your left hip smash the wall?


BTW I think my achilles thingy might be the real problem... I wrote mom and she said I've ALWAYS had a problem with that tendon since I was a little child and recently, I had that weird anckle twist with skating boots on that seemed to snap something in the front and in the back of the anckle at the same time and I'm thinking the achilles tendon might be injured. Cuz it's not so much the twisting that hurts, it's the up-and-down motion. Especially the down motion. Hurts like from the back of my heel to about 1/3rd of the distance between my heel and my knee at the back and radiates through the whole leg.
Standing on my toes on the right foot is also virtually impossible (like a relivee arabesque in ballet)
Anyway we have like 1 week of intensive skating left, then 3 weeks of 1 hour per week and then nothing for the rest of the summer so I'm guessing I'll take it easy during the break and it'll heal. If it won't, I'll see a doctor. But I really, really don't like doctors.

Arrgh be careful of that Achilles- I had to have mine surgicly repaired - no fun and hurt for another year. The best Achilles exercises are of a type called Ecentric. In this type of exercise you stretch the tendon while lengthening it, just like the stress of landing a jump-> stand with the ball of BOTH your feet on the edge of a step, go up on both feet, now sink down and stretch the Achilles on only ONE foot (up on 2, down on 1). I start my pre-skating stretches with 5 min of this EVERY DAY.

As far as the jump up onto a step -> if you noticed DoubleToe and I emphasized 2 different ways to do this. When you beginning, then its hard to get the body to shift over to the landing leg side. For me, it became easier if my goal was to hit the landing leg hip or buttocks against the wall - this made me tighten that part and really focus on that side. As you get better, you do it like 2toes and land light as a feather right on top of the box without hitting the wall and only use the wall for ballance. Can't do this at the dorm but in most gyms there is a pad on the wall behind the basketball basket. Make your box and put it there!

Have fun
Lyle

Is this any better? I found it on my camera. I must have done it either the day of or the day before my MRI since I haven't jumped since then and it looks like I took people's suggestions. Anyway, take a look?

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oopsie I meant to reply not to edit.

It looks like you are not bending the takeoff knee when you step out onto the takeoff foot. It's VERY hard to jump off of a straight leg! Also, the timing of the stepout and takeoff should be a little quicker: Get ready, bring foot in to heel, push out and spring up.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Thanks! I shall make the adjustments(in 3 weeks). I appreciate you taking the time to look at all these videos I post. I want to make sure I'm the most prepared I can be when I try one on the ice.

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Funny, I went skating in the morning before my back surgery- why not, might as well do something fun to take your mind off of it. Hope the MRI was good.

I wish my floor axels looked so good! My only concern is that you are rotating your jumping foot pretty far to the left as you step forewards and that may be a little hard to do on the ice, but on the other hand you'll get a nice curve off of the ice. I expect that we'll see nice ice axels from you sometime soon!
Lyle

The MRI showed a stress fracture. I understand what you're saying rotating that foot a little too much. But really the reason I was taping myself was to see if I could get the rotation, but I guess it's a good thing I'm learning better habits as well.

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Actually, I noticed that, too. Turning your foot out that much on the takeoff edge will make it hard to get into the correct rotational position in the air, so try to keep it straight forward on the floor so that you don't get into the same habit on the ice. I used to do that, and it made my takeoff edge pre-rotate, which made me spin my axel over my left side. It made it impossible for me to get backward over my landing hip in the air.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Team Arthritis, I tried it and that hit the spot right on. The stretching range on my right foot is infinately smaller than on my left foot and also infinately smaller than it used to be when I was dancing. Makes me go hmm...
It felt very unpleasant to stretch it, but not necessarily painful. It also didn't hurt afterwards, just continued to feel very... "yikes" is the only word I can put on it, kind of powerless.


I noticed yesterday I was landing my flips exactly the way I did before my injury - slightly rougher takeoff but the exact same landing and no pain on it, after a "warming up" of 1,5 programme practice on ice and when even my feet felt hot... I'm thinking a thorough warming up for the tendons might speed up recovery. And since I notice you've got a lot of knowledge about the workings of our bodies:
Any tips you have for warming up specifically the achillis tendons?

Everybody seems to tell you how to stretch them, on google, or how to warm up your calfs, but nobody really says how to warm up the achillis tendon... if that's even possible.

Funny thing that nobody notices the word "warm" in warmup - anything that makes it physically warmer helps! The stretches help - if you really want to get into it do them with the knee straight and then again with the knee DEEPLY bent (as was shown in an earlier post on stretching) as this will hit the 2 different muscles that attach to your Achilles : Gastrocnemius and Soleus. Be very careful - if its bothering you you may benefit far more from a month of NO jumps than from extensive stretching and warming every day!

One thing that helps any overuse injury is icerubs right after the exercise - Take a small paper cup and squeeze/ crimp it in the middle (to give you something to hang on to) and then fill it with water and freeze it. When you get back from skating, etc, hold the ice cup in a towel, tear off the top rim to expose the ice and rub the tender spots. Be careful - if you overdo it you will give yourself frostbite and develop skin sores (I did this with my Achilles injury several time ) Be careful
Lyle

I'm keeping the jumping to a total minimum now, no, honest. No axel attempts either. I've been stretching it like all day, listening to lectures and everything... while it's stretched, it seems to hurt less. So I'm just gonna continue doing that.

And thanks for the icing advise! That's clever.
Generally I leave my bottle of water standing around while really I don't even like cold water but I just forget it, and it doesn't freeze through, just gets really cold I'm gonna try "icing" it with that I think.

You're right: I wear my snow pants for teaching as well as for early-morning workouts. Staying warm really helps my knees loosen up quicker.

I used to freeze water in plastic sandwich bags. The bag was easier to hold and kept me from getting wet. (You can pour off the melted ice water and reseal.)

Never thought of molding it, though. Very smart!

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Oh yeh one more thing about Achilles tendons -> when you sleep at night your feet extend/ point, and this takes the tension off of the Achilles and it shortens! When you get up in the morning it is noticeably tighter (same thing with Plantar fasciitis BTW). You can wear a splint at night that keeps you ankle at a 90 degree angle and this may help. At the very least, be gentle with yourself in the AM and rub and slowly stretch your foot and achilles before jumping up and running around the bedroom
Lyle

Hi there, If your trying to get the axel I have some tips to help. When you step forward make sure to keep your arms behiend to get more fly in the air and keep your knee on the ice bent. Through out the jump keep your stomack and back straight and remember after pushing off the ice to do an "H" position and snap in your arms and leg. When landing show off even if it wasn't all that good. Hope I helped

Thanks and welcome to the Board! Hope to hear from you often!

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Not doing jumps off ice not to harm my anckle eh? I knew I wouldn't keep it up for longer than a week...

Here's normal speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLuzdC_xIds
The first two are trying to do the h-thing with the leg... somehow it's no longer helping! Next two are just average attempts

Here's slomo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTrNe0tObMI
Here there's only one attempt with the h-thing, the other two are the average attempts.

I dunno, the first of the average attempts seems like it'd be an axel if it had more height and time to finish the rotation, but is height really the problem or what is?


Also I am trying to keep the right (left on camera) shoulder back as you said but it's somehow not really working... I seem to pull it forwards anyway, more than I thought I was doing! Gotta work on that I guess. Somehow I'm not nearly as bent on my leg either as I thought I was and I think I need to look up, not down on the takeoff, but ehm any other suggestions?

It's not like I'm expecting anybody to act like a private coach or something, don't think that please! I'm just puzzled that thinking of this h-thing that first worked is now not working 'n stuff


And for more fun stuff, here's the complete competition programme off ice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UD_rm3TApE
I'll be dropping the loop from the flip-loop combo probably. AND NOT TOUCHING MY NOSE! Darnit I always did that in dancing comps too when I got nervous!

Sessie, I think it looks pretty good, have you shown your coach yet? MAybe its time for the bubblewrap!
Lyle
PS I like the program, very graceful

I only do group lessons and the girls in my group are still working on their flips & loops (more like, their half flips lol) so I think asking to do the axel is gonna get me a reply like when I asked to test, "but you already passed 5 tests this year, isn't that enough?", and besides, we have 2 or 3 trainings/lessons left before the end of the season and they're best spent praciticing for that test I so wanted and get to take now!

I hope to take at least a few private lessons next season (starting september) - the coach I wanted to take them with wanted to get me started on the axel in january when I first landed a lutz (it wasn't necessarily repeatable then), but she had private problems so she couldn't teach but she's okay now and will be teaching next year - but by then I'm hoping to have the axel nailed down off-ice already so I don't loose so much not skating in the summer.

Thanks!

Hi, Sessy! I would say your only problem is the timing of the takeoff. After you step out onto the takeoff foot, you are waiting too long before jumping. When you wait so long and you don't have an actual edge to ride (like you would on the ice), your right hip starts to come forward and square up with your left hip and then you don't have any way to create that hip snap in the air that gives you rotation.
Just remember: On ice, you need to hold the edge for a second before taking off, but on the floor, you need to step out onto the takeoff foot and then take off immediately (just make sure your weight is over your left knee and the ball of your foot when you step onto the left foot, both on the ice and on the floor).

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Teehee thanks!

Ookay... I've got a new vid. Yeah I know shouldn't really practice it landing on right generally, since I have still got that problem with the anckle. But the achillis seems fine now, it is just a bunch of small muscles or whatever on the top of the foot and by the sides of the heel that are still bothering me. Doc cleared me for mild activity and lots of stretching a while ago. My idea of mild activity is 1 off ice axel Hey come on I've kept the no jumping thing up for almost 2 months!
And no jumping is making me FAT!

I have been practicing just the takeoff (landing on left) and some backspins on the spin trainer lately. So this is what I have got now. I didnt dare to try again because of the anckle, but it felt like I was back on earth dissapointingly fast on this one compared to the 1-foot axels i have been trying, I guess I didnt get as deep a knee bend as I usually try to focus on because I was focussing on now having to rotate over my right hip instead of left.

Looks a lot like last time, I cant practice it well - why am I posting?
Cuz I noticed two things myself and I wanna know if Im right.

1. Is it just me or does the air position look better than last time?
2. I think I am unchecking my right arm far too early? I seem to be popping it out at the moment I would be for all the singles, but this is of course 1,5 so I'd need to hold it longer and then I'll spin more too right?

So here's this time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUfPauIMQ0I

(and here's last time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTrNe0tObMI )

Hi, Sessy. Yes, you are getting a little more rotation now than in the old video. In March you were 1/2 turn under-rotated (landing forward and then hopping for the final 1/2 turn). Now you are about 1/3 turn under-rotated on the landing, so it's definitely better. The thing I noticed is that you have your left arm extended forward and your right arm held back just before takeoff, which is a little strange. If you watch videos of axel takeoffs, you'll see that the skater always brings both arms back just before takeoff so that the arms can come through together and help provide a little momentum. You are only using your right arm right now, which is probably making it harder to get up and around. Also, if you felt like you weren't getting enough knee bend before takeoff, focus on really pushing out over your takeoff knee (so the knee is right over the toes) and then rolling up off the toes. You're most of the way there, though!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics