Kids and adults probably learn different but I think in general that everyone learns in their own way/style. A good coach figures out how you learn and teaches to you. I learn best by watching what my coach wants. She can talk for hours, and I do understand in my head, but my body learns best by watching. I can mimic what I see much of the time but just hearing about it gives me too much to think about. There are so many steps in skating that you can stuck on a step if you can't "see" it as a whole. Besides, my body needs to feel what's right. Skating is a feeling to me.

Chico

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"I truly believe, when God created skating, he patted himself on the back."

What really amazes and puzzles me is why beginners aren't urged to wear protective gear when they're just learning. Some knee pads, light stack-hat, elbow pads...and maybe wrist guards. Teaching to fall is important, but not everybody has control over how they fall...especially beginners.

Oh yeah....and I agree, it's weird how beginners/adults are asked to have their arms up like that. That's a little be overboard. The arms should be down that's for sure.

I think many (not all) new adults are just stiffer on the ice than beginning kids, often because of fear. Unfortunately, this can be a self-fulfilling prophecy in that, as we all know, the stiffer and more upright you are in the knees, the more likely you are to fall and to have it be a bad fall. Sometimes adults are just less fit or agile than your average seven-year-old, but the results can be the same, and it is scary. Luckily, adults generally have common sense about what is and isn't within their abilities at a given level, something I can't say for all of my young students I was watching a woman taking the beginning adult class at my rink practice on a public session the other night. She's probably in her late forties and looks to be in decent shape, but she's one of the most timid adults I've ever seen. Ten minutes into the session she had just taken her hand off the wall but was still barely picking her feet up *at all*. I know that can be frustrating to a coach, but I'd rather have a student like that than one who skates around at speeds beyond his or her control; at least I knew this woman wasn't likely to get hurt.

The other thing the original post made me think of was whether these skaters have their skates too tight. When I have a student not bending his/her knees, even when I remind them, I check right away to see how the skates are tied. Almost always, especially with the kids, the top hook or two is way too tight. It's not an immediate fix, but it gets the skater to the point that when I remind them to bend, they can.

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Shae-Lynn and Victor: We knew you were champions, and on 3/28/03 the whole WORLD found out! Thank you for twelve wonderful years!

I agree that skating with control will reduce this woman's odds on getting hurt. However, being alert and able to move comfortably without fear is far better. Public sessions can be very dangerous with people going fast, losing control, or being distracted. Being afraid to protect yourself by moving out of the way makes you more of a hazard. Best bet is to manage your fears, pad your body parts, and learn how to glide, push, stop and most important: TURN! A student like this is very frustrating to teach in a group lesson {edited to add} without an assistant when the other students are already moving. Private lessons are a better bet until she's able to keep up with a class.

Just a footnote: I refer to her skating method as the "non-skater shuffle." That's where they waddle along trying not to lift up their feet at all. Many times, I've found that this is caused by skates that are dull, loose, oversized or too filled with double pairs of socks! The poster who mentioned the top hooks is correct too: you need to be able to bend your knees.

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I think they tend to not encourage that because ones you're used to these little security "blankets" it's hard, especially for an older adult, to let go of them. As for me, I think the protective gear would've done more "harm" than good because it would have felt cumbersome just as it feels awkward for me to skate in pants ever since I started skating in dresses.

I think it's because the vast majority of coaches started skating as children and just never give it a thought. I banged my knees up enough with roller dance and skiing, that when I started skating at 53, it only took one whack on the knees to send me to Modell's for knee pads. I recommend them to all my adult beginners. They are especially good for the very scared ones, as they reduce the fear of injury. I even wore mine for testing. I took a pair of tights with runs in the toes, and cut them to make knee pad covers. DH didn't want to wear his when we were in a show one time, and of course, in the warm up, some kid zoomed right in front of him so he never had a chance.

As far as letting go of the security blanket, I didn't wear mine when I skated during a commercial shoot. I never noticed. I also have found myself on the ice teaching the tots and only realized that one knee pad was missing when I got on hands and knees to demo getting up.

Everyone is different, but I do think knee pads should be suggested to adults, especially those over 50 or overweight.

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That's true, but I think the coaches are also looking forward to the time when the first tests are to be taken, and the first competitions entered - and if you learn to skate with all sorts of protective gear on, it's very difficult to learn to do without them. Even a pair of gloves - it took me a long time to learn to skate without gloves, or to be happy with them on or off.

My husband has dug out his wrist-brace now that he has taken up free skating again, but makes a point of removing it when we are working together.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

When I started on jumps (at the "young" age of 42) I didn't think about my dependency on my protective gear......until one night at lessons (the one night I didn't have it on) when we were suddenly told that we were going to work on jumps (instead of spins)! I was a nervous wreck!!!

I realized at that point that I was becoming dependent on the gear. I didn't like feeling that way. I try not to wear it much now unless I'm working on loops or a new jump.

As for the gloves, I'm banned from wearing them in lessons, as they prevent me from knowing what my fingers look like (they tend to spread waaaaay out). I can ditch them, as I couldn't wear them in synchro anyway. My hands just get cold.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Not sure if it's dependency or reality. I fell on a three turn and landed on my wrist. The shift of my weight whilst still on my wrist turned what was a fracture into a break where my hand was virtually separated from my wrist. Being over 40 has it's issues with bones. I don't notice my wrist guards any more. For shows I skate without, but I will never forget two months of the pain of the pins and skrews holding my wrist back together and the dependency for driving and of course being off the ice.

It's an individual preference.

I'm sure. At almost 59, and having broken my right arm three times in my life, once at age 5, again at age 15, and lastly at age 54, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it is cold, hard reality.

Age 5 - green stick fracture, cast above elbow, no big deal, recovery unremarkable.

Age 15 - cracked ulna, cast up to elbow, no big deal, recovery unremarkable.

Age 54 - Colle's fracture of wrist, cast above elbow, miserable, recovery long and difficult with permanent problems.

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The problem I've found is that people skate differently with protection on or off. It's more noticeable in kids, but adults do it too. I have both kids and adults that wear knee pads, and they tend to fall forwards much more frequently. Getting their balance further back is becoming a royal pain in the butt. I don't mind new kids starting out with them, but by the time they're going forwards and backwards with ease they need to come off (unless they're at higher risk for some reason).

Now a bum pad... absolutely. I'm surprised by wrist guards - I pretty much never see them. And in the last two years (knock on wood) I've only seen one broken wrist out of hundreds of kids/adults skating.

Interesting observation, but I've never seen it in my own students. What I see all the time is hesitant adults lose some fear with those knee pads in place. I don't recommend them for kids mostly because kids don't suffer the same consequences as adults. My own younger daughter wore knee pads for a short while when she went through a phase of whacking her knees pretty regularly. She also used crash pads for a while, but neither ever inhibited her skating.

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Much to my delight and surprise, I am now officially co-teaching the adult class that I had been subbing in. I found out on Monday, when the adult class roster was on my clipboard under my Basic 1 class roster. The names on it were "Assistant Director & dbny". The director was out that day, so I still wasn't sure it was for real, and not just another sub job, but a coach friend at that rink told me the director told her I was getting the class! On top of that, the two women that I worked with in the class (I get the real beginners), both listened to me two weeks ago and showed up with smaller sized rental skates this week, and both told me they enjoyed the class when we were done. Glad I stayed with it .

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I don't wear protective gear...but I can't skate without my gloves. Seriously, I feel naked and it drives me nuts. =-) Some folks need their butt pads, I need my gloves.

Chico

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"I truly believe, when God created skating, he patted himself on the back."

You have just described how I feel! In winter I can't even walk around in the city without having my hands either:
1. bent backwards into my coat's sleeve, or
2. in my pockets, or
3. wearing gloves.

When skating in tests/competitions, I eventually solved the problem by cutting some fabric out of old skating tights and sewing myself skin-coloured gloves out of it!

For me, gloves can be the decisive detail that determines if I am going to land all of my jumps (with gloves), or have a splatfest (without gloves).

skatingpanda

I'm glad we can be "weird" together, alot less lonely. =-) I hear you, I actually have panic attacks when bare handed at the rink. Not really...but my skills definitely have issues. My old coach used to make me take them off some days and I would almost cry. Pretty weird huh? =-) I can't skate "naked"!

Chico

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"I truly believe, when God created skating, he patted himself on the back."

I'm not allowed to wear gloves when I run through my program, or working on certain moves...I'm supposed to have "Barbie" hands so my fingers don't spread way apart.

I like to wear gloves because my rink is cold, and if I fall my hands don't like to touch the ice (people spit on it you know). ewww!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I am an adult beginner. I am learning ice dancing as well as free style. In ice dance, they are adament that you keep your arm shoulder height, not on the table high. My free style coach will ask me to keep my arms lower. Which is better? I've read that ice dancing provides a better basis for body positioning. True?

Marianne, I would assume dance coaches ask for your arms higher up because that is actually where your arms are more often going to be in some dance holds.

As my hubby (aka occasional coach) says... just do what each coach says to do, and then work out what is best for you later

If in doubt, ask your respective coaches the reasons behind their instructions.

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-Erinna-
aka cassarilda

My Progress Report!
"Did I mention there is only ONE rink in Melbourne?!"
"If you're not flying, you're obviously not trying!!!" - courtsey of the guy who helped me up off the ice after my last spectacular and sore fall

What you must do, of course, is keep your arms in the same relative position. What so often happens - and I'm guilty of this, too - is that you start out with your arms tidily in position, either table-height or straight out, or somewhere in between. Then the music starts, so you bend your knees to push off - and leave your arms where they were. The net effect is of flapping your wings for take-off! I've done this in my time, and Husband still does, occasionally.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

I think this is a very sensible post.
Im an adult beginner and have been skating for 7 weeks. Four of those weeks were spent off the ice due to injury. So maybe we should knock that down to 3 weeks. I have only had one lesson.

I have suffered a grade 3 concussion, a seriously bruised knee for which I couldnt kneel or walk on and a suspected broken bone in my wrist/hand. Three falls on three different session.
If I had worn a helmet, knee pads and wrist protectors maybe I wouldnt be in pain today.
I have skated the last four sessions without causing myself injury becuase I have now been shown some technique and have learned how to balance better.

Also during the last three sessions I have been wearing knee and elbow pads which are comfortable and I feel a hell of a lot safer with them at this stage. They dont get in the way and they dont cause me any problems. If anythign they give me a little more confidence in myself and allow me to relax and bend my knees a little better without the fears of having a serious fall and breaking something.

My arms tend to be at the 9' o clock and 3 o' clock position mostly but they ache like mad. Maybe they are too high? I dont know

Andrea xx

Fact 1: Skaters fall. That's why the first thing I teach all beginners (child or adult) is how to fall down and get up - OFF-ICE first and then on the ice. It doesn't stop anyone from falling but it does minimize the damage and the fear.

Fact 2: Falling hurts. Pads and helmets can help minimize injury but they don't prevent injury completely. You can get just as hurt wearing gear as you can without it. Sometimes even more hurt because of the overconfidence that pads can generate makes you do things a tad less cautiously than is safe for you.

Fact 3: Skating isn't easy. Sooner or later everyone falls and everyone gets hurt. The question isn't "if", it's "when" and "how" you deal with the aftereffects.


I'm sorry if this is blunt and harsh, but honestly, I get exasperated with people (adults and kids and parents) who seem surprised when falls happen and injuries result. There is no way to make any sport absolutely injury-free. Generally falls and injuries are not the coach's fault, not the rink's fault, and not even the skater's fault. They're just part of the learning process. If the prospect of falling and injuring oneself is that scary for the skater and/or the family, then maybe skating (or any sport) isn't the correct activity for that person.

And as explanation for the above mini-rant, I offer the example of the mother who went into absolute hysterics every time her four-year-old fell down. The day he managed a face-plant and cut his lip, SHE had to be taken to the emergency room because she hyperventillated and passed out at the sight of her baby bleeding. The kid was fine; his grandpa took him out for ice cream while Dad dealt with Mom at the hospital. The skating school director then suggested that if Mom found the sport so stressful, then she shouldn't watch.

Oh yeah I agree

Im padded up for now becuase I dont wanna hurt me knees anymore than they allready are but I know for a fact Im gonna fall and hurt myself again. Im not very fit and have a lot of work to do so hopefully at the moment I will gain a little protection from what little protection I have, if not then I know Im gonna have to deal with it.

If we skate with a fear of falling or fear of hurting ourselves, were not gonna progress very far. We will always skate within our limits and never push ourselves further. If that was to be the case, there would be no point in skating.

FOr me, I dont really want another concussion so soon but I expect I will suffer other banged heads.

Andrea xx

Being too stiff can also lead to nasty falls.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

I am wondering if that is just what your ice dancing coach prefers. Certainly, none of the 4 ice dance coaches I've worked with over many years (all former National level competitors and 2 of them International competitors) wanted me to have my arms any higher than table top. In fact, 2 of them made me skate carrying orange construction cones (the ones used at my rink during public sessions to cone off the middle or the end) to work on sensing when I was raising my arms. And it worked. I learned to notice when I was gradually raising my arms into "butterfly wing" level.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...