There have recently been two injuries in an adult class that I have assisted with, which has made me examine the techniques used in teaching that class. There are always at least two coaches with this group of six to eight adults. All of the adults are moving and all are doing F and B swizzles fairly smoothly. The problem I see is that the coaches are competitive coaches and young adults. They always seem to begin any move with the command "arms UP!" and then raise their arms in example almost over their shoulders. In my experience, adults and all beginners, are much more stable with their arms at waist height, "on the table".

The first injury happened when the class was working on snowplow stops. With arms "UP", and knees straight, one woman slipped off the backs of her blades and hit her head hard enough to have headaches and go for an MRI. She fell just as I was calling out "bend your knees!", which the lead coach had not mentioned at all. Then last week, another woman caught her toe pick on F crossovers, which we have all done, and broke her knee cap ! I highly recommend the soft knee pads to my adult students, but no mention was made of that to this group. I also teach lifting the under toe before I ever let an adult attempt a crossover. I want to see that toe come up and not point at the ice, as the best insurance against catching the toe pick. Sooner or later, one of my adult students may get injured, and if/when that happens, I hope it is not because of a mistake I have made or of some bit of instruction that I have left out. I don't want to blame the coaching for the recent injuries in this group, but I can't help but notice that the adults are being taught as if they were kids. Some one calm me down, I want to scream!

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Sorry to hear about the injuries and your frustration, dbny. Would the rink let you put together a short informational brochure that you could hand out with registration materials (before people have even registered)? That might help some think about getting knee pads before their first session on ice (and boy, do I wish I had had my knee pads before the first time I tried my 2nd pair of skates on the ice. I had upgraded to a better blade and went to a stroking class near the pro shop and caught a toepick on fast Russian stroking.... owieeee).

I guess a brochure wouldn't fully solve the issue of the other coaches remembering to remind the skaters to bend their knees, lift their under foot the right way, etc. Do the lesson coaches ever chat together before teaching? Maybe you could talk to them from your experience as being an adult skater? Would they be receptive to that?

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All good ideas, Mikawendy, but I'm low on the totem pole there, and don't feel comfortable with anything that could possibly be construed as a criticism. I also have very little invested there. I guess I just needed to vent and get a little feedback on whether or not I'm being overly picky.

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I demonstrate chest height with good posture. Adults tend to always go lower than what you demonstrate, whether out of modesty or comfort. If you show them waist height, they'll be at hip height. Pre-Teens and Teenagers are even worse - I actually asked one group if they HAD THE USE OF THEIR ARMS! (muttering to myself: Dragging around like monkeys!)

For stopping, I use the keywords "Feet together, bend your knees, hands on the table, make-a-pizza-pie." That brings their hands to waist height before they stop.

For skating forward, tell my students (children and adults) "arms up in front" so they have good posture and alignment. Keeping hands at waist level when skating forward is a bit too low for beginners. They really need a few inches higher to keep them from pitching forward onto their knees if they trip.

When students trip on toepicks, they either fall correctly, flail their arms over their heads and fall backwards, or they lower their arms in front to catch themselves. (Lucky you: you got to see all three in one class!) If their hands are at waist height to start with, they're all set to fall forward, which is not what we want. If their hands are at chest height, they have more space to lower them and catch their balance before they fall.

Falling is a part of skating and you're right: all adults should be prepared to fall. If you know you have easily damaged body parts, protect them. Maybe you could just chat up the adult skaters and recommend the knee pads. I believe you wear them everytime you skate, right?

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I think you're probably right, to an extent, that the coaching is slightly deficient. In my (very limited) experience, coaches that teach kids, and who learned as kids, don't always understand that adults think differently, and thus need to be instructed differently. I'm not a coach (although I sometimes desperately wish I had more skating experience so that I could be), but in my adult lesson group, I would often rephrase or add to what the coach was saying for the benefit of the other adults...and suddenly they understood. My coach was great, but she'd learned as a kid, and was currently coaching the college synchro team...all made up of girls who'd skated as kids.

I agree that the best arm position for stability for those who don't bend their knees well is at about waist-to-chest height. Any higher, and the shoulders come up around the ears, which throws off balance and center of gravity. Any lower, and again, center of gravity is off. And any coach of adults who doesn't repeat 'bend your knees!' to the point of exhaustion, needs to have it explained to them just how necessary it is.

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Not having started to skate until I was 47, I learned the hard way how learning to skate is different for adults. Actually, all of the lessons you teach the kids can be used on adults, but with lots of explanation of the physics.

Hands on the table.
Never let your arms go behind your body.
If you feel off balance, grab your knees and glide.
Bend your knees or you will fall.

I remember trying to learn backward wiggles. I couldn't comprehend the concept. Finally I told my coach "Is this what you want me to do?" and proceeded to do c-cuts. She told me that was where she was trying to get me to.

Also had a parent thank me last night for giving a lesson before her daughter's first class on how to properly size rental skates.

To watch their child walk across the floor on their skates. If they wobble there, they'll wobble on the ice.

How to properly lace skates. Don't wrap the excess lacing around their ankles.

And how once they found a pair that fit to remember the number on the bottom so they could get them again next time.

Same lesson goes for beginner adults.

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I respectfully disagree with you there. I tell all my skaters "hands on table, belly button height". I see arms go up all the time. Most particularly, I see it in this class where the coaches are actually demonstrating what I call "airplane arms", and the adults do get them up to their shoulders and their shoulders up to their ears. I have my students check their arm height by putting their thumbs on their belly buttons and then out from there.

I've actually never seen a toepick trip result in a backwards fall. I see lots of leaning back when trying to cross over though, and high arms contribute to that, IMO.

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Well, we can disagree respectfully. You're absolutely right that "airplane arms" are useless, but I'll keep my demos at chest height, thank you. I dont' want them lower on my students.

I have seen the propeller arms land students on their backs - usually kids because adults prefer to see where they're falling. You're right: a toepick trip won't necessarily do it, but a slight wobble or "caught in the crack" does trigger it among the wild things! LOL

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That's one of those things I hope I never see!

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As previous postings have suggested, adult students tend to take anything you say literally. If a coach says "arms up" and puts her arms above her shoulders, the adult students will put their arms in the air.

Given that, even as a junior coach, you can make a point of demonstrating the proper way to skate. When you start off, tell your students that different coaches suggest different arm positions, but that you've found that keeping their hands low on the table will provide them with enough balance to keep them steady without tiring their arms. Demonstrate this position and try to maintain it as much as you can during a lesson. Tell them that you'll remind them to hold their arms on the table by saying "arms up" during a lesson. In that way, you're not second-guessing what another coach says or does--you're just giving your adult skaters an additional learning tool.

Asking adult students to keep their hands on the table works well for multiple reasons. Adults tend to concentrate harder than children on individual elements and on the proper position for each body part. The less they have to worry about their hands, the better. Because their hands are low, they won't tire as easily.

For me, the biggest reason why I ask adult skaters to keep their hands on the table is so that it also teaches them to keep their hands--and weight--forward. When running, if you move forward too quickly and start to trip, your instict is to do "windmill arms," flailing your arms backward in the hopes of slowing down. Because the skater's center of balance has shifted that much farther forward on the blade, flailing arms backwards often results in the skater's sliding off the back of the skates. Adults' higher center of gravity--coupled by their often-ingrained assumption that flailing will prevent a fall--makes a severe tailbone injury a problem that I've witnessed on a couple of occasions when weight has shifted too far back on the blades. Teaching adults to keep their hands on the table allows them to concentrate on their feet and legs while also ensuring that their weight stays forward on the blade.

I agree with "hands on the table" for adults when they're first learning stability on the ice. The shoulder high arms can come later and they should be told this.

Although I must admit that when I started, I had two coaches. One taught arms up and the other at waist height.

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With adults, I use "Arms Out", "Soft Knees", and "Chin Up". "Arms Up" does have a weird connotation that adults tend to take literally. I have one student that I am constantly reminding to get her arms down because they always float above her shoulders. We also take the first class to teach falling.

This is where that idea of what constitutes a "child skater" comes in again. As I'm reading this, I don't remember ever learning half of the things I do to maintain my balance on the ice, or the "proper" way to fall. Yet, I did not figure skate as a child (other than really early on rentals). Hockey seems to have taught me quite a bit that has crossed over into my figure skating.

I tend to keep my arms at shoulder level at basically 10:00 and 2:00 (with variance, of course, depending on what exactly, I'm doing). I do recall earlier in life doing several flailing backwards movements and slipping off my blades. I don't do it anymore. Now, I fall at an angle of sorts (I twist and land with my body covering my hands to avoid unfortunately slicing from other skaters).

I'm not sure I'd be able to communicate many of the things I do, since I do them without thinking.

As an adult skater who has come from a dance background where everything came naturally and easy for me, I can say for sure that I always over-think everything and never throw caution to the wind a try something before knowing where every part of my body should be. I think the hardest thing about being an adult skater is fighting with brain, LOL! It is so easy for my mind to get around the concept of what my body SHOULD be doing and so hard for my body to actually DO it.

I think the most helpful thing I've ever done is to realize that the glass around the rink is reflective enough to use as a mirror. I can see my body position and it keeps my head and eyes up.

Hm, I learned skating as an adult (38) and I had no problems with following my coaches instructions to keep my arms up.
I think the biggest mistakes the coaches in that class make is that they don't take consideration of their students abilities... if you see someone having problems with what you're trying to teach don't force it, throttle down and take small baby steps.

Everyone is different. I've been working with one friend for over a year and she is still so scared that she can't commit to one foot, even though she is fully capable of it. I started another friend just a few weeks ago, and today, in her second lesson, she began stroking. In one day she learned F swizzles (and had a hard time learning), F alternating half swizzles, and moved on to actual stroking with a real glide and a proper push. Every time the first friend would come close to falling, or anything unexpected happened, she would tense up. The second friend, OTOH, found every new thing to be a big laugh. She was literally laughing out loud, and when she suddenly "got it" about how turning her shoulders changed her direction of travel, she laughed with joy so loud that the other adults all stopped and looked. They then all smiled at us, and later some came over to tell me how refreshing it was to hear someone so obviously enjoying learning to skate. It's personality, physique, muscle tone, experience, etc.

And yes, I haven't seen the coaches moving to each person to help with their particular problems. They act as if the students are all the same and just keep moving on

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See that's what I mean... learning to skate, especially at a more advanced age, should be all about having fun, because let's face it where is an adult going with it. That combined with the fact that older people aren't as resilient to injury as kids makes it so important IMHO that coaches pay attention to the individuals and not just throw them all in the same bucket.

I explain that when I'm trying to teach new adults not to swing their arms. I tell them it's really not about their arms, but about their shoulders. If you swing your arms, your shoulders follow suit. So, while you're trying to skate straight, your shoulders are telling your feet "Go left! No, go right! No, go left! No, go right!" etc.

It's so much easier to teach adults the physics of skating.

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How about to international ISU-sanctioned competitions? Okay, against people of their own age and ability level, and it is about challenging oneself and pushing the envelope, not about becoming the best in the world. But international competition for adults is very real, so don't just think that adult skaters are only going to be poddling round their local rinks not doing anything much. Because it simply isnt' true. Even those of us who started in our 40s and 50s are competing cheerfully against one another and loving it.

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Woa... no need to get offended!
I'm sure there's a handful of adult skaters that actually do end up going somewhere... just as there are older adults that participate in senior olympics etc... but I'm sure the vast majority just sticks to the recreational level and maybe some local 'for-fun' competitions. And hey, there's no shame in that, wuite on the contrary I think it's a great accomplishment!

Still, I stand firm in my opinion that learning to skate as an adult (especially an older adult) is totally different than learning to skate as a kid... and lessons should be layed out accordingly.

Well, I'd have to agree with Ms. Redboots...there are several hundred of us who show up each year to adult nationals and many started as adults. A few of us, about 70 last year, attended the first ISU sanctioned all adult competition and had a good time. We of course realize it's for fun but at least for me I will continue until I pass my Sr. moves (currently on my Jr.) and until I pass all my international dances. I know I can't pass higher than my Novice FS, but I was thrilled to pass my intermediate this fall. And who knows maybe I'll give it a try...Adults are generally realistic, but treating us as if we lack something is not very fair....

I keep my arms around 8 and 4 and I learned how to fall by falling.

While I'll never be an olympian, I can skate well and I will continue to do so along with all my peers in a sport we all love.

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Hmm, did anyone say adults should be taught like kids? The USFS Basic Skills Program recognizes this and has specific Adult levels.

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But apparently not in the context of this thread... and I thought that's what we're talking about here, not just in general.

I was looking at the ISI National Conference agenda. They have a session on teaching - get this - "Tots and Adults." I sincerely hope that the session addresses the special needs of both populaces.

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It could be an interesting session if it addresses the dual needs that coaches in "Parent and Tot" classes must meet. My rink offers "Parent and Tot" classes for pre-school kids and their parents; teaching kids to skate while simultaneously teaching their parents not only to skate, but also to help their kids on the ice, can be quite a challenge!

I teach a couple of semi-private lessons to parent/kid combos, and I've always enjoyed separating the very clear, technical descriptions that the parents seek from the "let's play a game and have fun" mentality I use when working with the kids. The parents also very much enjoy watching their kids play games and usually pick up some general suggestions they can offer to the kids during free skate. I would hope that the above session covers these types of issues instead of just lumping tots and adults into one category of basic skills students.