Beginner backspin entries?

stacyf419 · #1 04-23-2008, 05:48 PM

Hi folks-
My coach started me on backspins and has me entering it by doing a pivot (right toe picked into ice, left inside backward edge). I really, really suck at pivots - always have - and I think the combination of intense suckiness and hatred of pivots in general is really slowing my progress with the backspin, because I can't seem to get beyond my petering-out-pivot. Are there other methods of entry used in teaching the backspin? I would love to surprise my coach next week with a working spin. There wasn't time to ask her this last lesson...
Your help is much appreciated, as always!
Stacy

FlyAndCrash · #2 04-23-2008, 05:55 PM

I started with a pivot... And I can't do pivots either. Try doing pumps around the pivoting toe. That way, you don't think of it was a pivot - its just a pump.

flo · #3 04-23-2008, 06:00 PM

Hi,
You can try a left inside edge, then a deep right inside edge with your free leg trailing. Turn into the edge (like an inside 3) and snap it into the spin. Try to think of it as curling into the spin. Your free leg will then be on front.

I also like jumping into the backspin from a waltz or loop jump. Another way is from an inside bauer with the same idea of snapping into the spin. Play with them and see what works for you.

blackmanskating · #4 04-23-2008, 06:08 PM

I'm going to assume you are a CCW spinner. I still think that pivots are one of the easiest ways to go about learning the backspin but try it this way. If you are good with 3 turns, try gliding forward on a Left Inside edge. Try to glide on that edge until your skate traces a half circle on the ice. Left shoulder should be leading. From there, step on a Forward Right inside edge and let the 3 turn carry you on a back outside edge into the backspin. Keep your left arm in front of your body during the entire spin entrance right arm is out to the side. Be sure to step low with the right knee deeply bent and slowly come up in the knee as the 3 turn happens. Don't force the 3 turn. Let it happen naturally as your edge deepens. Once you get into the spinning position, try to raise your left hip slightly higher than the right to make sure that all of your weight is on your right side. Start doing the backspin completely open until you get a feel for it. Don't try to pull in just yet or you'll just lose control. Let your coach check you out and he/she will tell you when your ready to pull in. I hope this helps you.

flo and I are talking about the exact same thing.

BlackManSkating

stacyf419 · #5 04-23-2008, 06:13 PM

That method sounds like something that would be more comfortable for me. The one thing I do have is good deep edges, and I have a nice deep inside 3, so I will definitely give that a try.
Regarding getting into it from a waltz jump - I actually had a dream a few weeks ago where I was waltz jumping into back camel spins. It was so easy while I was sleeping!

blackmanskating · #6 04-23-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stacyf419

That method sounds like something that would be more comfortable for me. The one thing I do have is good deep edges, and I have a nice deep inside 3, so I will definitely give that a try.
Regarding getting into it from a waltz jump - I actually had a dream a few weeks ago where I was waltz jumping into back camel spins. It was so easy while I was sleeping!

A waltz jump into a back camel??? Sounds almost like a flying camel to me.

BlackManSkating

Skittl1321 · #7 04-23-2008, 06:40 PM

I could never do spins from pivots (forward or backward) and my pivots are really okay. I started learning my backspin from a T position, pushing onto a left inside edge, once the coach realized the pivot wouldn't work.

The other way I did it was to do a 2 foot spin, then pick my other foot up, so Voila! backspin

I've been working on my backspin for ages and it's just now clicking. I think I owe most of the credit to working on a change foot spin- I do a wind up for a forward spin, 3 revolutions, change feet for 3 revolutions, then change feet again. That spin has allowed me to learn to do the backspin, and now getting into it makes more sense (I now use a right inside edge into left inside edge then spin entry because the coach decided I had the right idea and now needed some speed)

froggy · #8 04-23-2008, 06:45 PM

what really worked for me since pivots are not my best element is approaching the backspin from an ina bauer, with a deep inside edge of my right foot (assuming ccw) and letting the back leg sort of drag behind and to the side, the arm position is also very impt dont let your right arm wonder in back of you keep it slightly rounded within your vision, i like to think that my left arm and foot is connected and does the same thing in the backspin, when my right inside edge is deep i cant go any more hook the spin and lift your left/free foot off the ice and spin! oh dont pop up too quick otherwise you'll just hit the toe and fizzle the spin.

good luck!!

stacyf419 · #9 04-23-2008, 07:00 PM

thanks for the many good suggestions - I can't wait to try them out tomorrow. I'm also glad to hear I'm not the only one with pivot issues.

blackmanskating - you're right!!! Waltz jump + back camel = flying camel...i'm heading back to sleep!

flo · #10 04-23-2008, 07:04 PM

Hmmm. I'll have to try that waltz jumping camel!

doubletoe · #11 04-23-2008, 07:35 PM

I think everyone has a hard time learning the backspin from a pivot, but just keep working on it and you'll be glad you did. That's what made my change foot spin more consistent, and that's often how people do backspins anyway. You do a forward spin, then stick the bottom pick of the right toe into the ice at about 1:00 and pivot right into the backspin!

coskater64 · #12 04-23-2008, 08:22 PM

I learned my back spin from a two foot spin, sort of like how you learn to water ski on one ski, just lift the other leg up, ...(haha) get on the right edge and spin. Go slow!! Other wise you could really hurt yourself.

I am also relearning how to pivot in order to work on deep choctaws, so you might want to go that route. I never had trouble with the back spin, and I think this is how I learned it, like 36 years ago.

Be careful...please.

dbny · #13 04-23-2008, 08:50 PM

This is from a post last year:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbny

First, you have to be aware that the direction you are going to move in is backwards, not forwards, so don't start from anything moving forwards. Second, you must have your weight over the skating hip (big surprise), and anything that pulls your weight out and away is going to pull you onto the FI edge (notice that in elite competition, when they change edge from the BO, the free foot uncrosses and is usually out away from the skating foot). Assuming a CCW spin, stand on two feet with your R foot slightly pigeon toed. Push off with the L foot into what is almost a B pivot on the R foot. As you push, bring the L foot over the right into the crossed position. Keep the L foot parallel to the R foot so as to keep the hips closed. The L arm is in front, with the R arm to the side. As you push off, bring the arms in, hands meeting in front, elbows down. If you feel your weight start to shift to the FI edge, jump out of the spin (from your toe), onto your toe as if you were landing a loop.

The thing that impressed me the most is that there is never any FI edge happening. I think that if you've already got that problem it's going to be very, very difficult to beat, especially if you can't feel the difference.

I've been doing this method and several others also. Still do not get more than one revolution, but I have never flipped to the FI edge without knowing it and aborting the spin, and even that rarely. If you can hold a very strong and deep BO edge, practice it several times between spin attempts. Go slowly into it, cross your free leg, and hold your arms in spin position with L shoulder slightly forward. Really good backspinners can snap into the spin from the BO edge entry.

kimberley801 · #14 04-23-2008, 10:18 PM

I just started this today. My back pivots are crap, so the instructor had me try it from a forward entry...AKA from a RFI 3-turn. Just make sure you bend your knee. I had much better success with this. Another way I tried was a change of foot spin, but it is more difficult to get all of the weight transfered and get a spin out of it.

mikawendy · #15 04-23-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbny

I've been doing this method and several others also. Still do not get more than one revolution, but I have never flipped to the FI edge without knowing it and aborting the spin, and even that rarely. If you can hold a very strong and deep BO edge, practice it several times between spin attempts. Go slowly into it, cross your free leg, and hold your arms in spin position with L shoulder slightly forward. Really good backspinners can snap into the spin from the BO edge entry.

Yes, I agree, it's helpful to feel the BO edge. I've practiced it with a BO edge entry similar to the takeoff for a loop jump, but I don't do the jump, I do a backspin instead. This tends to help my free shoulder stay checked as well, instead of opening up backward into the spin.

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