I'm new to this forum and looking for some "second opinions," as it were, or advice on how to assess my progress.

I've been skating for 3 years--all private lessons, as the rink where I started didn't have adult group lessons at the time. For the first year or year and a half I was only able to fit in skating once a week; since then, I went up to 2-3 times a week. I'm now dropping to 2 times a week, because frustration is turning it into work instead of fun. Skating is the hardest thing I've ever tried, but I love it. Still...as I said, frustration is ruining the fun. So far, all I've learned is forward and backward crossovers, forward inside and outside edges, and a forward 3-turn (to be honest, I'm just now managing to work on that--I have a lot of trouble with fear and keeping myself from putting my free foot down on the ice). My coach is always working on having me refine the basics and says I need to "get" the 3-turn in order to be able to move on and do other stuff.

I have trouble because I'm always tense when I skate, which interferes with balance, I guess, and I'm afraid of speed, even though I understand that skating gets easier with more speed. I'm working on mental conditioning to overcome the fear (I hope it'll work!).

So what's my question? I'm not sure. I guess it's: Should I have been taught more by now, despite my natural slow progress? Should I push my coach to teach me more new things to work on, or should I trust his judgment? (I should say that I really like my coach: he is great at both demonstrating and explaining--I need a combination of both--he is extraordinarily patient, and he is wonderful about bolstering me at those times when I feel like giving up.) Any advice would be welcome.

After this amount of time, I would expect you to to have progressed a bit past crossovers, edges and three-turns. While they are the foundations, you should have learned a basic two-foot spin and a simple jump or two. Perhaps you left that out of your description. In any case, you should have an honest chat with your coach and ask about learning more challenging skills. Honestly, you'll always work on edges, stroking and crossovers - they'll never be perfect unless you practice them regularly.

I would suggest that you work on conquering the fear that's holding you back. Pad yourself up (knee pads and ski pants work well) and go for some speed. Just skate around the rink as fast as you can, doing stroking and crossovers. Don't worry about form or about falling. (It'd actually be good for you.) Make sure you lean into the turns, keep your knees bent, and go as fast as you can. I have my little chicks do intervals of 30 seconds fast, 30 seconds regular, alternating for five minutes. It exhausts them, but they don't return to the super-slow speed they started out with originally. In addition, it builds up your leg/knee muscles and forces you to bring your body into alignment. (Which is safer in the long run, anyway.)

While it's wonderful to have perfect form, sometimes "getting" something just takes a bit of speed and force.

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I skated on ponds as a child and that has been a big advantage for me concerning the basics of stroking and crossovers. But, like you, I still get very frustrated from time to time. Overcoming frustration is work just like learning 3-turns.

I guess the best way to evaluate your own progress is to hear about the skating progress of other adult skaters. Here's my experience...


Year One: At age 50, I was coaxed to go skating again by a group of college students in our department. I thought I'd skate better than I did that night because of skating on frozen ponds in high school. However, it was almost like starting from scratch and I had to hug the boards!

I ended up taking adult group lessons for a few months until our rink closed for the season. Before the adult group lessons, I had never heard the term "3-turn", and none of us were able to do them when our instructor demonstrated them on the last day of our class.

Year Two: Took private lessons and was instructed how to do a proper 3-turn. Whacked myself black and blue on the ice while learning those! Decided that knee and elbow pads were a great confidence builder and I still wear them today under my skating clothes. However, I was still unskilled in 3-turns. I was skating about 10 hours per week in an all-out attempt to get them down. Learned three jumps - waltz, Salchow, and toe-loop from my first coach. Spins were awful.

Year Three: Upped the skating hours per week to almost 12 with a combination of private lessons, freestyle time, and a weekly public session. Still worked on the blasted 3's, and they were getting better. Had problems with checking them properly though - couldn't test them yet but they were getting close. No new jumps. Spins still awful.

Year Four: Got a new coach because the prior coach had graduated from college and moved away. New coach has a different pace and a different view of moves. I liked the fresh insight. By 12/2004 I was ready to test. Passed Pre-Bronze moves with all forward three turns done adequately, but not perfectly. Still skating 12 hours per week on the ice.

Year Five: Same coach, practicing Bronze moves. No programs, competitions, shows etc. to distract me from learning moves for Bronze. Passed Bronze moves on 1/2005. Coach immediately starts me working on Silver moves (actually had been working on them a little to break up the monotony of the lessons.) Spins still awful. Not working on jumps as much and they start to deteriorate. I'm getting older too!

Year Six: Similar pattern to the above years - passed Silver moves 1/2006. Spins still bad. Don't jump much.

I'm now on Year Seven and guess what? Spins still weak - but getting a little better (if I could just CENTER them better!). And THREE TURNS- still wish I had a stronger check for the double threes on the Gold moves test. Still wish back inside threes felt better.

Frustrated? YOU BET! But I'm still plugging along. Like watching the minute hand of a clock, you can't see progress easily. I had the advantage of being able to get around a frozen pond as a kid, but still struggle like most adults. I would guess that with the limited ice time you have and the limitations of being an adult learner, you are right on track. You might try going to a public session to guage yourself against the average person.

I keep a fixed schedule for lessons, so that's some motivation for me for the 6am lessons. Besides, there are the tangible benefits of exercise that, if nothing else, help you lose weight and feel better.

I do believe that frustration is a huge factor in serious adult skating. I'm sure that it holds true in other activities too, but you have to face it head-on.

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Bill Schneider

As if my previous post weren't long enough...

I would also try some public sessions in addition to private lessons. It's a whole different experience, and I believe that the basics of crossovers and stroking get stronger, well, because they have to in a crowded session.

No distracting three turns, etc. - just plain basic skating. For two hours.

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Bill Schneider

You don't mention your age Sk8D but I personally think age is a factor.

I skated as a teenager but didn't skate again for 36 years. I started again last January at age 56 and found out it ISN'T like riding a bicycle - it was ALL gone!

I started private lessons in February and have skated 6 to 8 hours a week ever since.

I couldn't even stand upright on skates on 18 January. By late March, I was able to skate forward without falling on my face (too often) and was doing reasonable forward edges by June. It was August before I was able to do backward stroking and forward cross-overs and November before I had anything approaching backward edges. I didn't really start progressing on the backwards until I started wearing a butt pad to alleviate the fear of falling on my tail bone. My back Mohawks are ok but forward 3-turns still elude me and I still don't have back cross-overs.

I think that my previous skating experience has helped my confidence but I also know I don't have any "natural talent" - I have to work damned hard for everything. (Being stubborn as hell sure helps - LOL!) I also know being afraid to fall is one of the biggest obstacles to an adult skater so, like Bill says, get padded up and fall more! The more you fall, the less you will fear it and the less you fear falling, the faster you will progress.

Skating is an unnatural thing for humans so hang in there and don't give up!

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

I think very often the trouble with adult skating is that our coaches do tend to take us at our own valuation. If they think we're just there to skate round holding on to their arms, then that is what will happen. We have to really make our goals clear to our teachers, and then they are usually delighted to help us achieve them.

Maybe your teacher thinks you're happy pottling about doing 3-turns and edges? And, indeed, you can do quite a lot of ice dancing once you know how to do forward crossovers and swing rolls. But it might be worth saying something like "Shouldn't I have got a few learn-to-skate levels under my belt by now?" and discussing with your teacher where you are actually going, rather than just drifting.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

I've noticed that when I find my skating is more work than joy...I need to back off and evaluate what I've been working on. Maybe I'm working too hard on everything, or on just a few things and nothing new.

I put new music on my mp3 player, and just SKATE!!! I kick it around and just skate with the music and enjoy myself. It really does help.

I started skating at 41, and sometimes I don't feel as though I am making any progress. I keep a journal and note the things I'm working on. I've kept a journal for the past 3 years and it has really helped me keep things in perspective.

Also, getting a private coach that really understands the way I need to learn has helped. I do need to jump around at times to keep from getting bored, and she has taught me by thinking "outside of the box" which has really helped! She constantly pushes me to go faster, harder and I push myself because I know it can be done.

You really should be working on jumps and spins at this point though. I got over the fear by really padding up!!!! My first waltz jump away from the wall was a tiny little thing, but what a feeling when I realized I didn't kill myself and die!!!! Woo Hoo!!!

So, find some friends to skate with for fun; keep a journal; evaluate your progress and goals with your coach (have you competed or participated in shows?); and push yourself harder than you think you should go.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I have found that sometimes it is who teaches you can demotivate you as well as they motivate you. My current group lesson instructor has a habit of, if you are not at the same standard as the rest of the group, make you go to the edge and just skate up and down! I had that a couple of times the last lesson block and I felt as if I wasn't learning anything at all and I began dreading lessons as I was getting further behind as she wasn't even coming over during the lesson. Then we had someone else for a lesson and I learnt more in that lesson than I had for the previous 6 weeks! I am still below the rest of the class, but due to private lessons and practise I am catching up.

I don't know if anyone else has found this, but my limited experience has shown me is that with a good instructor/coach you can learn to love it and make real progress, but with a bad one that can be undone in a matter of minutes.

I agree with all that the others have said. I have a feeling it might be in part down to your coach .

I remember reading a post on here a few months ago where a skater mentioned they were going over the same thing time and time again and not moving on to anything new because because their coach was demanding absolute perfection - and I'm is it that is the case with you? If it is, and he/she is demanding absolute perfection from your 'basics', you will never move on, because it takes AGES to become that good - and many would argue one never gets 'perfect'.

I would have a word with your coach. Oh, and try jumps off ice to get used to the sensation.

S xxx

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"

Nope, no jumps or spins. I'm not eager to spin, as I get dizzy really easily, and I readily admit that I'm terrified of jumping. Currently what I really wish for is control: When I see people switching edges, as in power pulls, and switching directions with ease, I am so impressed--and determined to learn that kind of control on the ice. Someday... Meanwhile, I skate with knee pads and crash pads on my hips and butt--I thought that would help my confidence, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. It doesn't help (odd as it sounds) that since I've been wearing the crash pads, I haven't fallen on them, and since I've been wearing the knee pads, I haven't fallen on my knees, either! Someone at one of the rinks where I skate suggested that I get down low and MAKE myself fall--I haven't mustered up the courage to do that, but I probably should. I'll try the exercise you recommend above, too.

Almost all my skating, except for the day of my lesson, is at public sessions. I stay away from weekend ones; the weekday ones are almost empty. But except for some of the hockey guys (!), I do find it reassuring to gauge myself against average people. Still, that's not good enough for me!

Upper forties--but I refuse to admit that age might be a factor! <G>

No, he knows I'm not--he knows I'm really frustrated. He gave me a new exercise to work on getting the feel of being on an edge and it helped a lot. Plus, now that I'm suddenly no longer afraid of trying 3-turns away from the boards (I considered that a huge breakthrough and cause for celebration!), I'm hoping I'll start making some more progress with them.

I wish I could find some skating friends, but since I skate on weekdays, that's been hard. Everyone's work schedule is different. It's another frustration. I haven't competed or been in shows, but frankly I don't want to. I feel self-conscious enough when I'm skating at the same time as "real" skaters, even though I know perfectly well that they're working on their own skills/programs and not watching me!

I feel like my coach definitely motivates me. I wish I could have him with me all the time I skate--I'd do a lot better, I think, with him there to push me and cheer me on. I now understand why some people hire personal trainers...

No, he's not demanding perfection. I think he thinks I'm not ready--more psychologically than physically--and just keeps working on refining the other stuff so there's SOME progress at least. I have to admit the frustration has gotten me down enough that I may be coming across as too negative. At least that's something I can change, and I should!

Thanks, everyone, for jumping in and giving me your two cents! Skating can be a lonely sport, so this feeling of community is welcome! Sorry for the long post.

Honey, you ARE a real skater!!!! Whether you want to believe it or not!

You might want to consider skating in a show sometime -it can get you over the feeling of being "self-conscious" and that everyone is looking at you! Or if not a show, attending an adult skating seminar. With everyone skating (and making mistakes) no one pays particular attention to everyone else.

Also, you just haven't evolved into the mindset of caring if people are watching you or not.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

You could start two foot spins in spite of your dizziness. Just do one and skate a bit, then do another. It can take a long time, but you do build up tolerance to them, and the dizziness decreases. Ask you coach about starting you on two footed slaloms, which is the beginning exercise for power pulls. They are fun and you can stick with them or go back to them for as long as needed until you start to feel the confidence for one footing them.

I agree with others have said already, especially about the music. My own way of coping with some of the frustration is to stop working, and do something fun. In my case it's F and B cross strokes with arm variations.

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In my opinion a coach is a teacher, but it's your job to be the goal setter. If you want to move on in skills, you need to let the coach know, so they can set you on the road to work towards this goal. If you you seem content with where your at and don't ask they can't know. I'm not shy about trying new things or asking to be taught. I'm not a timid skater and you need to skate outside your fear to learn new and "harder" things. And, to be honest, everything is "hard" and "scary" when you first try. You need to want the skill more than your afraid. If your coach is waiting for you to be perfect, you need to find a new coach. Nobody is perfect and everyone needs to continue working on the basics. Basics will be forever. You do need to "show" your coach certain abilities in skills to move on to a harder skills. Personally I find improving certain skills is easier when working on new and harder skills. Weird I know.... I need to concentrate on what I know to accomplish the new. My biggest suggestions are to fall in love with skating. Love does work wonders, =-). Work on the fear, fear does make things harder. And, talk to your coach. Skating needs to be fun. As for friends...say, "Hi!" to some of your rink mates. Friends come in all ages in skating. Good luck.

teresa

I never imagined that I would make skating friends as I am very shy, but I have a couple of really nice ones at my rink. They have group lessons the same time as me which helped, but you already have something in common which can be a talking point. Just asking how they are getting on or what they are working on brings a conversation on and it just goes from there.

It does sound like rather slow progress to me - no wonder you are getting disillusioned.

For comparison I started in group lessons once a week (at age 37) - there were over 20 people in the group (it was mixed so kids and a few adults all in together)so I had very little individual attention and yet at the end of the year with very little additional practice (usually stayed for an hour or so of public session after the half hour lesson) I had completed all the rinks learn to skate courses which included a rudimentary one foot spin and 3 jump (though more of a 3-step as I was terrified of jumping then), 3 turns and mohawks on both feet etc. Whilst none of these were particularly good it did mean as we were following the course, we always felt we were progressing, although obviously you continue to work on all skills as you aquire new ones.

It sounds to me like the problem is that you have no structure to your learning and therefore no way to measure progress. Ask your coach if you can follow the same sort of program as the learn to skate courses at your rink do and ask to be tested at similar intervals and held to the same standards of progression as they do on those courses and to have skills 'ticked off' on a list as you acquire them 'well enough' to start learning the skills from the next level of learn to skate. That way not only do you get to measure your progress in a concrete way but it gives you some aims and allows you to look at skills 'above your level ' and have a go at them too. It often helps to work on something even harder and then when you come back to the lower level skill it will seem easier. And sometimes what the learn to skate people think is harder is actually easier for you e.g some people find mohawks hard but love 3 turns and vice versa.

Another option is to ask to learn some of the beginner dances - they use ony forward skating and are good practice for edges but a bit more interesting than just doing edges up and down the rink. That gives you something structured to practice on your own. Also you could ask to do a mini-program - choose some music you like and ask your coach to set the moves you can do, to the music, so you can play the music and practice the moves on your own. It is much more motivating and fun to practice them that way than just to have to practice skills in isolation.

Without the spur of working for tests and competitions I'm sure I would have got bored with skating too. Having friends along to work with /compare to/ spur you on is helpful but at least if you had more structure you should feel more motivation and it is interesting to discover the difference between learning skills and putting them together in a programme. For example if you have a programme with some crossovers into a 3 turn you may find you can't do it at all at first but knowing you have to do the crossover right to get in position for the 3 turn can really help you to work on the crossover and thinking about what comes next after the 3 turn can help you to focus on that and you start to automatically not put your foot down after as you are concentrating instead on getting in the right position for the next steps.

Mind you, there is one Mum at our rink who is absolutely terrified of skating - she has been skating as long as her daughter has (about 3 years now), and has yet to let go of the barrier and skate with any confidence! Even though she skates twice a week and takes lessons! And it's not her coach - he is very, very patient with her, but he does push her beyond her comfort zone, I've seen him do it (she takes from the same person I do).

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

IMHO, skating progress is very personalized. Comparison with others will not always be applicable to your case. Sorry about my lenghty story. I never officially introduce myself to this forum and just tried to do so by intercepting this thread.

Just for your reference, I started skating first time at my mid-30s and will have skated almost 4 years in March. I was never athletic nor energetic but I do have a slender built and do yoga for some years.

The first year, I took ISI learn-to-skate group programs and skated at weekend public sessions. By my first sk8 anniversary, I have progressed from basic skills to ISI FS2, which covers ballet jump, half toe Walley, half Lutz, scratch spin, 2 forward spirals, dance step sequence. I had everything, but they are not great nor decent. Around that time, the rink just changed its policy to discontinue FS3 and FS4 group lessons. Since I have most of basic skills, I just decided to skate on my own pace and continued enjoying my love, skating of course, and the support from comradeship of my skating pals who I met at the group lessons and public skating. I skated on my own for 6 months and found no progress at all. The worse is I started losing some of skills (it means some bad habits sneak in).

Right before my birthday, I have put aside a chunk of money for private lessons. So, I went straight to my ISI FS2 instructor and asked his availability. I then started private lessons at around 3 months before my 2rd anniversary. During his 10-month instruction, I progressed fast at moves but little at freestyle. I have practiced upto half of silver moves and juvenile moves (no back-3 yet). My low back pains after a few jumps and the fear of breaking my body parts just slowly eat up my freestyle progress. At my last lesson(Sep 2005), I had a mental break-down during the lesson: my feet finally refused to jump or spin. I thought it may be the time to call it a quit. I then only skate sporadically.

The end of Sep 2006, I feel I am ready to come back for more training with different focus - ice-dancing. So, my skating journey continued. I have learned most of basic forward/backward dance stroking, progressives, swing rolls, and chasse. I can dance to music for some prelim dances. The exciting thing is I started to skate at freestyle session and I passed Adult pre-bronze at early Dec. And, now I am starting to work on my jumps and spins a little bit at a time. Even, it is very slow and starts from scratch, but it is a start. I also learned Arakawa-style Ina-baur! I will take a month overseas vacation this month. Hopefully, I will come back for celebrating my 4th sk8 anniversary with strong mental and physical condition.

Overall, I have a lot of skating pals and friends having learned skating for years are content with what they can do. One group of people do stroking forward, F edges, F/B crossovers, F3 turns, mohawks, hops and half-jumps by the board. The other group can do single jumps and very decent spins.

I have no suggestion but I do think just to enjoy the fun of skating and push yourself a little bit at a time will make your skating different.

Happy Skating!
Luna

Luna -
Do you take Glucosamine? It can help with joint pain. Also, some strength training - Pilates or Yoga - can help you out with the lower back pain.

Thanks for the information! Unfortunately, I don't. But I bought some for my mom(at her later 70s). She feels the difference after taking Glucosamine. I should start taking them as well. I do Yoga daily. It helps a lot.

Luna

I agree with this. Also, this is poor coaching, and I would have said something to the coach. Hopefully not in a confrontational way. You did pay for the lessons, and therefore should get just as much of a lesson as the rest of the group.

I've been there, done that. For a while, I was the only adult in LTS, so I was paired with one of the Basic groups. The coach would split time between the kids and me. I heard the skate school director tell one of the other coaches that I "prefered to work by myself" I was a little (ok a lot) upset by this comment because they had really given me no choice in the matter. However, that was several years ago, and I'm over it.

If you approach your lessons with no particular item to work on i.e. "whatever" when asked, then your coach might just assume that you are satisfied with doing the same things you have been.

If you are uncomfortable as you say about spinning; then work on 2-foot spins. Your body will eventually become adapted to spinning. But if you never spin, this does not happen-you have to train your body for spins.

The same with jumping-little tiny 1/2 jumps (ballet, mazurka, 1/2 lutz or 1/2 flip) eventually become bigger jumps, and by then they are not the big deal. Pad up, move away from the wall and do some.

but some people struggle with certain basics...3-turns for example. My husband has been skating for 2 years or so and still cannot do them on one-foot. Not sure what the issue is with that-physical (as in can't quite get the movements right) or psychological (mental block).

Skating is a great sport and you can really progress but you do have to push yourself. Some people have to push harder and work harder at it than others (as with any sport or activity) but if you and your coach work together, this can happen!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Sk8D - do you have the ability to go to other rinks? Maybe a dance lesson or an adult clinic would help motivate you to get past your fears?

January is the USFSA's National Skating Month, so there will be various events going on at many rinks. You should check the rink's websites or announcement boards and see - you'll meet new people and have some fun!


ETA: Found an article on Yahoo! entitled "Why Don't Figure Skaters Get Dizzy When They Spin?" (Also see: The World Figure Skating Blog)

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Wow....you gave every one here the opportunity to talk about how they started skating! Thank you....this wil be a popular thread!

Ease up and have fun. I admit to the same self torture at the inabililty of repeated attempts at the move de jour.

I fell into this sport as if by accident. Age 46 (51 now) on hockey skates with my then 6 year old daughter. The next year my wife gave lessons with the recreational department as a Christmas gift. It took me all that year to get a LFO 3-turn!

The next year I started skating at lunch hours as well as weekends. That proved to be the pivotal moment. I reached a critical mass of sorts where I felt comfortable on my skates and started to move more freely.

I didn't get on figure skates until January of 2005.

My spins are just getting a little better (some days). All 1/2 rev jumps are in place. I've got a small sal and occassionally a toe loop.

But the interesting thing is that a lot of the time during my first 4 years I merely skated to have fun and excersize. The last two years I concentrated on doing more than that, but I had built up a lot of confidence just by having a lot of ice time.

My first season on figures was what I classify as posture modification.

Good luck and don't take yourself too seriously. It never helped me.

I skate at three different rinks. I confess that all the driving only adds to the frustration: it's much harder to find the time to skate when you have to also squeeze in a half-hour drive each way. It's always stolen time (mostly stolen from work!). The rink that is closest to me is the most limited in what it offers, since it's new and hasn't built up much of a figure skating program yet. I thought about joining the adult group lesson, and I might yet (next session), even though there's only one and the people in it are pretty much complete beginners. I figure it'll be a chance to meet other adult skaters, and also get some basic lessons from a different coach.

I'm also going to just try to change where my head is at with all this. It seems to have gotten stuck in a negative mode, which certainly gets in the way of just having fun! So...back to skating this week after the holiday break, and I'll try some of the things people have suggested, and most of all, I'll just try to enjoy myself!

Hey Dreamer, we understand. Its just not fair, none of it! We all progress slowly - had a tough session of "why is this so hard, I KNOW what to do?!" this week myself. Those darned posts of "look at my doubles" get to be awefully demoralizing. I'm the only guy at our rink who skates the FS sessions who isn't a coach, I get lonely too.

Like you, I often come here just to feel better about my obsession for the most frustrating part of my life. I do think I have one crucial piece of advice: You need to skate more often, like everyday if possible for an extended period of time. Its the only way it will feel natural, which you must achieve before you can relax, which you must do before you can improve.
Hang in there
Lyle