Methinks you are one in a million, as every coach and serious skater I've ever met has complained about the difficulty stopping after a fresh sharpening. It may only be for an hour, but it's there and is a well known fact. Maybe the opposite is true for you - you may not be getting a very good sharpening, thus no problem.

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I'm getting an excellent sharpening. People won Olympic medals this year with blades sharpened by the guy who does my skates. So I think I'm okay. Actually this is the first time in all my life my blades are being sharpened correctly.

Strangely enough, though, all my coaches have always been baffled at my difficulty with freshly sharpened skates before I moved on to this sharpener, and every person I've ever spoken to be it pro shop owners or coaches have always told me that a sharpening done right should feel no different on the first day than on the fifth. You should be able to hold edges better after a fresh sharpening, but you shouldn't have difficulty stopping, spinning, or doing any moves (and I was struggling on the first few days before moving onto this guy). Difficulty stopping is the hallmark of a bad sharpening, I've always heard that. I don't mind if people don't agree, but it's what I always was told and I fully believe it. You have no idea how great it is to get skates sharpened right before leaving for a competition and KNOWING they'll be perfect from the first practice. I pay 10 bucks and they're good for a month. It's bliss. I'm pointing all of this out because I think everybody deserves such security.

I think people settle for "good enough", and maybe that's all there is near them, and if that's so, then I feel bad and am sorry you have to deal with less choices. However, being "good enough" doesn't mean it's good. That's what I think. If it works for you, great. But I doubt anyone likes having to dull down their blades after every sharpening.

My group coach/skating director sharpens my skates (she also does others) and she does an excellent job. She also hones the sides. When I step onto the ice it takes approx. 1 lap before I'm good to go. I get my skates sharpened about every 20-30 hours (that's my preference).

Once I let it go (I was too busy) and it was about 60 hours before I could get them done....I was skidding all over. It took 2 laps before I felt better skating on them but at no time was I unable to stop.

I don't think I'd have a problem using the pro-filer on the rentals, as they are sharpened (probably once a year) to a 1/2" roh. That is the only grind they can accomodate at the rink. I once asked for a 7/16" (on a lark) and the sharpener guy was like, "what? I've never heard of that one" I don't take skates there, since they messed up my son's hockey skates.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Exactly Jon, that is my problem. I'm going to have to send them interstate, which is going to be time consuming and expensive.

I do like my skates sharp, and right now I'm slipping off edges into FO3s. I checked both Rainbo and the Pro-filer website, they still don't make 7/16" unfortunately.

Does the ROH make much difference to spins?

And while we're talking about that, I notice my coach uses Pattern 99 which have an 8' rocker, does that make spins easier?

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Karen

I skate - therefore I am

Maybe those folks that need to use smaller ROH to get better bite on the ice have narrower blades. Blades of two significantly differently widths sharpened with the same ROH probably won't have the same grip on the ice.

Probably cause he's a hockey sharpener. It's interesting to note that 7/16 isn't actually on the grinding wheel. They set it exactly in between 1/2 and 3/8, and that's how you get 7/16. That's also how 7/16 from one sharpener to the other can feel different, because some are more accurate at putting it exactly in the middle than others.

As for Celliste...what I am wondering is: are you only having problems on the 3-turns, or on everything including regular stroking? There are times when I feel like I'm slipping on a certain move and I think that I may for some reason need my blades re-sharpened ahead of schedule, but then I stop doing the move and just push off and hold forward outside and inside edges around the corners of the rink really fast, and I realize that I'm holding them just fine, and that it's the move I'm struggling with, not my edges. It's a sure fire way for me to tell whether it's in my head or whether my blades are dull, for me. Often it's just my brain that needs a little sharpening.

PS: The larger the number of a rocker, the harder to spin in. 8 is hard to spin in because it's flatter than 7. The advantages of 8 though are that they are faster on the ice, plus they help to check landings on hard jumps because they don't curve as much. To somebody who is an advanced skater like your coach probably is, these perks are important, and when you're a skilled spinner, the flatter blade doesn't bother you. But spins are easier in 7 ft rockers than 8, or 8 1/2.

Here's a link that covers many variables on blade configuration. http://home.pacbell.net/anamga/blades.html#5.5

Excellent explanation! BTW, my sharpener also sharpens for elite skaters, including at least one Olympic champ, and yet I can still feel the difference the first several days when stopping. OTOH, like I said before, no problem at all with T stops. Very curious.

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I hear ya! I was also in the habit of really leaning against the back inside preparatory edge before pushing off into my spins, and when I had bad ice or the blades were getting a little dull, I would slip off of it. Not long ago, I had to skate on really trashed ice and I knew it wouldn't hold my edge, so I was extra careful to stay right over the hip of the skating leg whenever I was on an inside edge. Damned if I didn't achieve the perfect entrance edge for my double salchow and just nail it for the first time in several days! Thanks to bad ice and dull blades, I learned a valuable technique lesson!

I wonder if the sharpener you use automatically stones down the edges?

I have two different sharpeners, both of whom are very talented. (I don't "settle" - my Gold Seals are too expensive to fool around with.) One usually asks me if I want them stoned, the other only does it if I ask him for that service. For the last two years, I've been using the closer Sharpener, who, BTW, also sharpens the skates of Olympians.

I believe you are getting a good sharpening AND you keep your skates very sharp, therefore there's very little adjustment for you. You are unique and in the minority. Most skaters who don't sharpen frequently DO have difficulty stopping on newly sharpened skates, even if it's just for a short period of time. You'll often see them standing by the boards, scraping the ice to take the edge off a bit.

However, not being able to stop is NOT "the hallmark of a bad sharpening." LOL I once had a highly-recommended pro shop let a hockey teen sharpen my blades by mistake. He left the edges uneven, which interfered with EVERYTHING, stopping included.

Don't feel sorry for those people, learn from them. Not everyone has the same experiences, which makes life interesting.

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I think you hit it right on the head! I keep my skates sharp always, and yes my sharpener does automatically stone the edges down. I didn't use to let other sharpeners do it but the first time he did it he didn't ask me, and now it's perfect everytime. That must be it. Also, I really don't pay all that much attention to the bite of my edges, quite honestly. I just sort of put my skates on and go. I think a lot of people here pay more attention to detail than I do. I've never thought about blade placement on boots or other stuff that often gets discussed here. So maybe that's part of it too.

Either way, as they say, whatever works. I just hope everyone is getting as good a sharpening as they can possibly gets. I remember bad sharpenings so well, and they were the bane of my skating.

[Difficulty stopping is the hallmark of a bad sharpening]

That's not a hallmark of bad sharpening. That's a hallmark that the blades haven't yet been tuned after sharpening. And tuning can either involve stoning-down. Or it can involve skating around the rink a lot to dull the blades, or it can mean deliberately scratching blades against the surface of the ice until the 'knife edge' is dulled enough to provide the desired performance.

[You have no idea how great it is to get skates sharpened right before leaving for a competition and KNOWING they'll be perfect from the first practice]

We do have an idea how great it is. Because we're skaters too.

Stoning the bur off is very important. You should check for burs between sharpenings and use a very fine grit stone to remove them. Your blades are burred if you can catch the tip of your fingernail on the lip of the bur.

http://www.sendpix.com/albums/06031618/nh5yj28h10/

I inserted a picture below (it's the above link), but it doesn't seem to appear once I posted this message. Yet I'm editing the post and I can see the image again. I'm mystified.

You missed my point. First of all I wasn't addressing *everyone*, just the people I included in the post as people who have trouble after fresh sharpening, and second of all, what I was trying to say was that having had in the past the same struggles those people are having now, having found someone who sharpens my skates perfectly and not having to go through the struggles people have talked about is pure bliss. That's ALL I was trying to say. I get my skates sharpened, I throw them in my suitcase, and I go to my first official practice not having to worry about whether or not I'll stick to the ice or be able to stop because they are perfect everytime. Before this sharpener I'm with now, I never had that assurance and sense of security, and it seems a lot of people are dealing with that too. Hence my comment.

With the way you responded, you're making it sound as if you thought I said what I said because I was trying to imply that I was better than anyone, or as if I didn't know you were skaters. I know most people here are skaters, and I don't think I'm better than anyone. That wasn't the point at all, and I thought I'd done an okay job conveying my point. Guess I hadn't, so hopefully this will clarify for anyone who's confused.

PS: EastonSkater, I've been wondering for some time due to some of the posts I've read from you in the past: are you a figure skater or a hockey player? Just curious.

Whew, things seem to be getting a little heated here!

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, especially that terrific explanation of why an 8' rocker is not for me.

Much as I would love to have control of my sharpening by getting a pro-filer, I think I have read enough here to convince me to stick with my 7/16" ROH for now. There just isn't enough reason to change, and seems like quite a few reasons not to.

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Karen

I skate - therefore I am

Yeah, I'm currently on an 8.5' rocker (comets). At first, my blade was the Mirage, which was 8' and I had got my scratch, centered.... then the rink closed for the season, my comets came in (with my new boots), got them put together and started at my summer rink. I thought it was because the ice was MUCH harder at the summer rink (which it was). Never did I think that it was the rocker. I wasn't educated about such things then. If I had known, I would NOT have gotten the comets mounted or even had gotten them. But, when you have someone who "helps" you, whatever.

Anywho, I can spin on comets, it's all in the technique, which I've had to "tweak" these past several months (part of improper teaching, part of weak muscles). Well, I have Aces (which are 7.5-8 I think) waiting in the wings for this summer and I expect a bit of a learning curve with them as well, hopefully not as much.

And, at first my sharpener did NOT hone the sides of the blades and stopping was an issue, then she learned. That is an important step. Another problem is letting blades go too long between sharpenings if you like a good edge. It takes a bit of adjustment once you get them back.

I had thought about changing my roh, but my sharpener only does 1/2"....(this is the same one that would only put me on Comets-basically if I change my roh, I have to drive 1.5 hours every other week ). So, I might get the profiler and stick with the 1/2" which is ok for now.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

This is interesting - I have parabolic skates, which narrow in the middle as I'm sure you know so maybe that's the preference for the deeper ROH?

Just to throw my thoughts into the mix, even with a 3/8 sharpening after about a half hour my skates stop nice and soft just like they would any other time

Yep...that could really be something to do with it.

How interesting this is! As a result of the discussions here, I have just about decided the opposite! What got to me was the idea that skating on a dull 7/16" hollow may be about the same as skating on a sharp 1/2" hollow. Because I work outside all winter, I let my blades get very dull before sharpening them. Then, of course, I'm pretty uncomfortable for a while. I think I may go back to 1/2", but get the ProFiler and keep them nice and sharp all the time. DH uses 1/2", so we could both use the same ProFiler. My other option is to go with 3/8", which DD uses and has a ProFiler for, but I think that might be too deep for me.

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Aces have a 7ft rocker and while yes, it'll take a few days to get used to, it'll be a lot less difficult than the switch you did from 8 to 8.5. I think you'll find that everything comes much easier with the Aces.

Dbny: If you work on outside ice, I think the profiler probably would be a great idea for you. I heard the elements are horrible on blades.

The Coronation Ace has a 7' rocker so it will be much rounder than you are used to. It will probably put you on the sweet spot on your spins and make them faster and better centered, but jump landings will be weird at first. Until you get used to them, you will probably have to really force your heel down when you land.

Well, I e-mailed the Pro-filer people, asking why they don't make their product in 7/16". Here is their response:

"The difference between a 7/16" radius and a 3/8" radius is less than half of one thousandth. That is, the 3/8" radius is deeper than the 7/16" radius by half of one thousandth. The reality is that skate sharpening shops don't even have a clear setting for a 7/16" radius. By choosing a 7/16", you are implying that the 1/2" radius ( which is half of one thousandth less deep than a 7/16") is not enough edge for you.

I recommend that you try the 3/8" radius Pro-Filer. You will not harm your blades in any way and I truly believe that you will like the edge that you get. ..."

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Karen

I skate - therefore I am

I'm not sure about that. If a freestyle blade has a width of say 0.15 inch, then I found the height between the top of the hollow to the bottom edge (vertical distance) to be

1) 0.0076 inch if the ROH is 3/8"
2) 0.0065 inch if the ROH is 7/16"
3) 0.0057 inch if the ROH is 1/2"

So if you start with a blade with thickness 0.15 inch and ROH of 7/16" ...... and then you decide to change to a ROH of 1/2" ..... you'd end up with a drop in height.... of 0.0065-0.0057 = 0.0008 inch

I'm not sure whether the differences in height are meaningful though. This is because maybe the profile of the pointy bit (the edge) could be sensitive to small differences in ROH.

I agree that blade width has a lot to do with the angle of the edge. A small grind radius is a lot less grabby on a thin blade as compared to a thicker blade.

BTW, your calculations are off by a factor of 2. They are actually double what they should be.

1) 0.0038 inch if the ROH is 3/8"
2) 0.0032 inch if the ROH is 7/16"
3) 0.0028 inch if the ROH is 1/2"

I did a quick 1:1 scale drawing in drafting software and snapped some dimensions on to get the results. http://www.sendpix.com/albums/06031806/wop6bcc59n/

So, if you decide to change to a ROH of 1/2" ..... you'd end up with a drop in height.... of 0.0032-0.0028 = 0.0004 inch

I'm beginning to think we must be very sensitive creatures to be able to discern such small differences.

My opinion: Use the largest radius grind that you feel comfortable on. Between sharpenings side hone the blade regulary, always removing all traces of burs.

oh yeah....true. You're right. My calculations are off by a factor of 2 because I forgot that the 'radius' of hollow is not the radius of the circle.

The ROH is in fact a 'diameter' of a circle, and nothing to do with a radius. Those morons need to change the definition..... or define ROH as a radius....instead of a diameter.

I had assumed that the ROH was a value for a radius, so thanks for bringing up that point.