All this talk about skate sharpening, I'm starting to slip off my edges, I can't put it off any longer.

I've been tossing up whether to get a Pro-filer to sharpen my blades myself once I've had them professionally done. Only problem is that Pro-filer only comes in 1/2" or 3/8" radii, and my blades are phantoms, which are 7/16" ROH.

It has been suggested getting my ROH reground to either 1/2" or 3/8". From what I've read, 3/8 would give me good grip on deep edges but may be a little too sticky, whereas 1/2 might not be enough. Also that the best ROH varies according to the person.

I am big (read fat - over 200 lbs) working on single jumps at the moment and trying to get back my upright spin and back spins. My aim is to have all these things working well and be working on axels and doubles before the end of the year (leave me alone, I'm allowed to dream).

Because I'm big, and have a fairly aggressive (read Kamikaze) style of skating, I do need good grip, but the ice at our rink is fairly soft in my opinion and I worry about too much grip. On the other hand, 1/2" might not be enough for what I do, especially as our small rink forces quite deep edges at times - mainly dodging recreational skaters and littlies.

I know it isn't an easy thing to give advice on, but I'm asking anyway.
Should I stick with 7/16" and keep having to miss sessions while they get sent away for sharpening? Change to 1/2"? Change to 3/8"?
Procrastinate a while longer?

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Karen

I skate - therefore I am

I think that 1/2 inch ROH will be just fine for you on soft ice....even for hard ice it would be fine. 3/8 inch ROH would be somewhat ridiculous after a sharpening....because that's kind of train-tracks grip.

I forgot to mention that ... if you use 3/8" ROH .... you'll probably feel that your skates blades are fixed to the ice with magnets.

Well, the heavier a person, the more pressure they put on their blades. Therefore, 3/8 hollow for someone heavy will feel a LOT sharper than someone light. I'm relatively light and personally, I tried 3/8 hollow once, and it was SO SHARP that I couldn't do anything. I literally drilled holes in the ice everytime I spun, and it wasn't from the toepick. If you're happy with 7/16, stay with 7/16. I personally think that profilers are bad ideas, but I know lots of people here have them.

Sharpening isn't that expensive, and it isn't like you never have to sharpen then if you have a pro-filer. You should find someone trustworthy to sharpen your blades either way. So once you have, what's the perk of a pro-filer? I skate 3 hours a day 5-6 days a week and have never needed "touch ups" that badly. It's your call...but if something ain't broke...I say don't fix it. If 7/16 works...why bother changing? It'll only set you back on your spins and everything while you get re-adjusted anyways. Not worth it.

I have to agree with Stardust re the profiler -- but do I recall correctly that Phantoms have a different shape/feature at the tail of the blade that is not compatible with the Pro-filer???

Yep.... I'd only recommend to use the pro-filer if your blades are conventional types.... with a flat sided side-profile, constant thickness....and parabolic rocker.

The good thing about the profiler is that you can use it anytime you want. And for those people that don't live close to skate sharpening services, the pro-filer is worth it.

I personally think that pro-filers are GREAT. They're not going to harm your blades if you just use it in the way the instructions tell you to. And the instructions are easy.

I just shove a little candle wax on both sides of the blade to make it slippery, and start sharpening away. It's the next best thing to a commercial sharpening machine....no kidding. And I'm not even affiliated with the people that make this tool. The reason why I found one was because I was in dire need to be able to sharpen my own skates after moving back to Australia. I didn't know whether I'd be able to find any hand-held tools for sharpening.......since I was skeptical of those things. But having used the pro-filer for ages, I know that it works GOOD. I know there is another thing called Skatemate.......but I'm really skeptical about that one, because that has a bendy cylinder, which doesn't sound too impressive.

I think the perk for Karen is that she will have control over her blades. I don't think she has a prof. sharpener close at hand.

Since last September I have only used the Profiler. Not once did I use a professional sharpener. The Profiler wasn't a "touch-up", it actually keeps the blade sharp. If used at lesser intervals of time, it works great. If you wait for weeks between use, it is much harder to use effectively. It's like preventative maintenance.

I don't skate as much as you (6 times a week, for a total of about 6 hours), but I do find that in-between sharpenings that I need to side hone the blade and get rid of the small bur that develops from edge pressure. That may be due to inexpensive steel in the Ultima Mirage that I currently using.

I agree with you on body weight affecting the bite of the edge. I weigh 160 and use a 1/2" R hollow. I don't have any jumps bigger than a single, so that also allows for the larger radius.

Lastly, I think a consitantly crisply sharp 1/2" grind will do much better than a partly dulled 7/16" grind. Unless you like the dull spots.

Jon

I dunno, maybe I'm weird but I'm pretty heavy (and tall) and I REALLY like the 3/8 hollow. I've had 1/2 and 7/16 and both feel like I'm on a slip n slide. On the 3/8 the first skate is always interesting because I usually go WAY too long in between sharpenings so there's an adjustment period but after an hour the blades are PERFECT for me.

But I believe that the pro filer DOES come in 7/16? I saw it at rainbo sports - was going to order a 3/8 one for myself but decided to hold off a bit.

I like 3/8" too - that's what my blades are currently, and I'm 155lbs. I cannot stand 1/2", and I'm fine with 5/16" too.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

I have always had a 1/2" even when I was 200 pounds. I have thought about getting the profiler, even if it's just for touching up the rentals that my son uses for his lessons (he complains that they have "no edges"....such a prima donna now that he's had a few figure skating lesson!).

I like mine newly sharpened! I don't like to skid! I know how you feel about that. When my edges start to slide out from under me....watch out!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Exactly. If you change your ROH to 1/2" you're just going from 7/16" to 8/16" and that's not a big difference. Think of it as skating on 7/16" blades that have been skated on for a few hours vs. skating on freshly sharpened 7/16" blades. And I'm sure the 1/2" will feel sharp to you after you've sharpened them. I use 1/2" and skate on very hard ice, and they're just fine. I sharpen them regularly (every 30 - 40 hours, as recommended by my blade guru) and they never slip.

I think it's likely that whoever is sharpening your blades for you isn't doing it properly. Your blades aren't going to slip with 1/2" ROH that's sharpened properly.

I've gotta agree. I've used only the ProFiler on my current pair of blades, they've never had a machine sharpening. And I love it. I simply spent more time on the initial sharpening, is all. (I remember sharpening them on a long car ride--swish, swish, swish...for, perhaps literally, hours, but it's something I enjoy doing, so it really didn't bother me. I sharpened both my and hubby's skates that trip.) If I'm using it regularly, it only takes a few swipes per blade.

Some people are wary of their own technique, and prefer to leave any kind of tinkering with their equipment to the professionals. That's valid...you know yourself best. But I also know myself and my abilities...and I figure, if the professionals could learn how to sharpen a skate (no matter how they do it), then I had the ability to learn, too. And if the professionals could also wreck a blade mightily, even with all their 'expertise', well, I wasn't going to put the control in their hands. I like being in control of my own equipment, taking my own time to be as careful as I feel I need to be with it. I'd have to basically blindly trust someone else's statement of their expertise to have them sharpen my skates--and quite frankly, I don't like to give up that much control--I don't like the odds.

But it's definitely a personal preference, and either preference is valid.


Oh, and I like the 3/8" ROH, but then I like bite. A lot of bite.

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I've gotten my blades sharpened by a variety of people over the past year and a half or so of skating ranging including my old coach who worked in a pro shop and a true "sharpening specialist" and I've tried a variety of ROH with all of them and 1/2 is not grabby enough - comparitively to the 3/8 it feels slippy. Just my preference.

You seem to commonly believe that your own opinion should be true for everyone, which isn't the case.

A 1/2" ROH inherently skids easier than 7/16", which skids easier than 3/8" which skids easier than 5/16", and so on. Thus, if you are used to a 7/16" sharpening, a 1/2" ROH will definitely feel slippery. Shallower hollows slide more easily which makes stopping slower and grip less, but they're consequencially easier to learn basics on - after being used to 5/16" and changing back to 7/16", I fell a few times because you simply cannot do as hard (fast+deep) of an edge with a shallower hollow - the blade will lose ability to hold the ice sooner. On the bright side the blades were quieter when on hard ice with the shallower hollow. It's got nothing to do with whether the sharpening was "proper" - it's simply the characteristics the different ROH's instill.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

On that note 3/8" is just 6/16", which doesn't sound much different from 7/16" either. But in fact the difference between 7/16" and 3/8" is slightly more than the difference between 7/16" and 1/2", simply because as the ROH gets larger and larger by the same increment, it has a lesser effect on the angle at the edges due to the fixed width of the blade (ahh fun fun geometry). To make it more obvious, consider that the blade surface is the edge of the circle with the radius, and there's a much bigger difference between the curve of the edges on a 1/4" radius circle and a 1/2" radius circle, versus say, a 10" circle and 10 1/4" circle, even though the difference is the same (1/4").

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

I didn't know the profiler could entirely replace sharpenings. That's really interesting and I do stand corrected. I guess I didn't think about people who didn't live near a reputable sharpening place. It would make sense if you didn't, to try and get something like that, or even to get it if you like to have control over your blades. I would never trust myself, personally. It'd be like plucking eyebrows...you keep evening out each side...'til nothing's left.

But as for the 1/2 or 7/16 slipping...I don't get it. I might understand a 1/2 slipping...I skidded a bit the few times I did get that sharpening in the past (to try it out). But 7/16? That's a really popular hollow when I'm from, and people land triples on that. And obviously, they don't skid. It's all a matter of weight/height/blade quality and obviously preference, but...if you're skidding on a 7/16, I would think *maybe* (I'm not sure...but maybe) it's time to look at your edging technique. It's fine to prefer a 3/8 hollow, but it's not good to be dependent upon SUPER sharp edges to keep you upright. Anyone should really be able to land single jumps and do edges and spins on either 1/2 or 7/16 hollows, but especialy the latter. I have no idea how anyone can slip on a 7/16, if it's done correctly. That's a SHARP blade.

Again...I get the "preference" thing. But not the need. Not unless you weigh 50 pounds.

Just depends on what you're used to. I don't have any problems with 7/16" once I'm used to it - but if you get used to 5/16", and then change to 7/16", it won't feel as secure at first. While 7/16" is sharp, 5/16" is REALLY sharp. Where I noticed most was on spin entries - I'd gotten into the habit of going into spins fast and really leaning on 5/16", then when I tried that on 7/16" I'd skid on the entry - still would spin but it was a bit unsettling and threw balance off a bit. You could probably blame that on bad technique though.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

I knew I should have paid more attention in math class ....

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

For me, I'm not referring to slipping as in turns and edges and such - heck, I had a 7/16 the last time and then didn't sharpen for about 4-5 months and didn't have too much of a problem until the last minute - I just know that when I do certain things, like stopping (especially those dratted tango stops), the 3/8 works out a lot better for me. In fact to be fair I've noticed that doing 3 turns is actually more difficult on sharper blades because I have to keep my weight "just so". So for me it's a matter of preference. I like knowing I'm not going anywhere and that I REALLY have to dig in to stop.

For those that complain about not being able to stop on freshly sharpened skates....is that because the sharpener did not hone the sides or because the skater likes the skates dulled down quite a bit (or a combination of both)?

And, is the pro-filer fairly easy to use and hard to mess up your skates? I'd like to be able to "touch up" my skates in between sharpenings, and to hit the rental skates my son uses.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Freshly sharpened skates are harder to stop in because the blades bite more. I have no problem with T stops, but find snowplows almost impossible and even one foot snowplows difficult, which is a problem because it is the stop I use most often when teaching groups, and I am always teaching snowplows.

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I think that's due to the blade edge being 'deeply' set in the ice during a typical glide. It's like it is deep in its own trench. It takes more effort to get it out of its trench in order to prepare for a stop.

Yep....the pro-filer is very easy to use, and won't mess up your blades if you just use it as shown in the instructions. Maybe after lots and lots and lots of sharpening, like over a couple of years....the rocker may change a bit, so you can then just take your skates to a pro and get those skates machine sharpened again - with rocker checking etc.

I wouldn't call it touching-up. The pro-filer really sharpens your blades. It is true sharpening.

I'm not sure about using the pro-filer to sharpen rental skates. The effectiveness on rental skates probably depends on what ROH they have on the rentals. If the ROH is high on rental skates.... like 5/8" ROH, and if the pro-filer is fitted with a cylinder for 1/2" ROH, then it might not work too good.

Yeah, I *would* blame it on bad technique. You're not supposed to "lean into the edge" like that...just shows that you're really dependent on the blade, and that it is controlling you, and not you controlling it.

As I said, preference is understandable, but no one should be dependent upon their blades to keep them upright. You should be leaning with control (which means you could control the lean/edge no matter what radius your blade was sharpened at, ANY radius of hollow you get will be sharp, radius of hollow determines how curved the middle of the blade will be, but no matter how you slice it *no pun intended* the edges will be sharp, that's why you sharpen them) you should never lean with such dependence on your blade that you'd skid unless you got a deep enough hollow. A hollow should be preference, not necessity. Unless you're doing dance, maybe.

PS: I'm talking about people who *always* sharpen their skates at 3/8 and above, not the difficulty someone would have while switching from one hollow to another. Of course anyone would need adjustement time when switching hollows. But if you're used to 3/8 and can't hold an edge on 7/16, ever...and you aren't skating the same with both radii, then it's your technique that's bad, and the 3/8 hollow is just helping you mask it. IMHO.

To me that's the example of a fine reason to want a 3/8 hollow.

PS: And as a general comment on the rest of the discussion: I've *never* had a hard time stopping after having blades sharpened, except for the few times I had a bad sharpening. To me stopping the first day after a sharpening is exactly the same as the last day before a sharpening. No difference, and there shouldn't be if it's done right.