Just recently I changed clubs and when I changed I started working on improving all my jumps. One of my coaches said that and axel, for example, is acually a forward spin leading into a backward spin. If you think about it this is true because you have to take of on the same foot you would do a forward spin on and then as you then get into the air you change to backspin. I then started practising my forward spin a little more to make it better< which some skaters ignore this spin to work on backspins, like I did> My axel takeoff soon got better because I could get that extra spin on the takeoff. Its a good excercise for getting rotation on you double axel or single axel.

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~*Sammi-Sasha*~

If you think of it that way, make sure you kick your right leg up and through when you jump- not around, as you would with a forward spin. Personally, this analogy of thinking of the take-off as a forward spin would completely prevent me from kicking through, but as long as you remember to do that, and as long as it works for you, then awesome.

You'll get better response if you have this moved to the "On Ice" forum. That's the place where people who skate can discuss and commiserate.

I will thanks!

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~*Sammi-Sasha*~

Kicking through would be a good thing to remember. I've done jumps before and without the lift and if you are not good at rotation.. The jump won't work. But it's a good way to look at it.! A different perpestive.

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-Newnia-

Newfie, I'd be very, very careful about thinking about an axel like a forward spin. As others have said, you need to jump through straight. Jumping around can lead to some very nasty falls - I know, since I've been there and done that. I would think that mindset would lead to pre-rotation - not a good thing - plus it is a very hard habit to break.

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

I learned it by practicing waltz-loop combinations with minimal touchdown/checking on the waltz landing, so it was like pretending to be a stone skipped across a pool of water.

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Polly Pooperak Move of the Month:
flying llama spin: a flying camel w/ loogie spitting


June: Atkins revolution: axel with a burger in each hand (which spatters grease everywhere) May: hip-hop flop: like her falling tree, but her hat's on backward (props to Darrell H) April: shoot the seal March: camel-toe February: the breast popper (the "Janet") January: gyno squat November: split falling Christmas tree October: double bielmann spin (both legs above the head)

Although I've never done an axel (well, maybe off-ice...) but I would have to agree with sk8er1964 -- especially about the pre-rotation. You end up not really doing a complete axel, it starts off as a little three-turn (like the beginning of a forward spin) and it looks like an "almost-axel" with no real rotation. I have been watching girls at my rink for a few years doing this and thinking, "what on earth IS that?" I spoke with my coach about it and she said they weren't taking off on an outside edge, and that the entrance was cheated.

And here I thought the only way to cheat a jump was to cheat the landing (of course, there are all of those flutzes, which are also cheated entrances...)

Count toe-axels and toe-waltz jumps (intended double and single toes) as more obviously-cheated-takeoffs-to-the-point-of-looking-awkward jumps.

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Polly Pooperak Move of the Month:
flying llama spin: a flying camel w/ loogie spitting


June: Atkins revolution: axel with a burger in each hand (which spatters grease everywhere) May: hip-hop flop: like her falling tree, but her hat's on backward (props to Darrell H) April: shoot the seal March: camel-toe February: the breast popper (the "Janet") January: gyno squat November: split falling Christmas tree October: double bielmann spin (both legs above the head)

You are naive -- I can (and HAVE) cheated jumps at all points. Takeoff and landing are easy, it's the in-air position cheats (ie. not moving, straight-legging,etc.) that'll kill me!

Interestingly enough, I saw someone cheating on footwork. She kind of "jumped" the three-turns instead of turning on the ice. It was cute, though - kind of light and bouncy. Wouldn't pass in figures, and it wasn't what the coach wanted.

The stepping-up-straight-as-if-you're-climbing-stairs is what always confused me about the axel take-off. If you freeze-frame or slow-mo a skater on TV doing a single or 2xel, you'll see that his/her body is actually facing sideway before the skating leg completely leave the ice. If you try to jump straight up then it'll be difficult to then transition your body for the rotatation around the right side of your body (for ccw jumper). It seems like you have to go up but to the side. But coaches never say anything about the side-facing thing on the take-off. Does anyone agree with me?

I think you're right about the side-facing look. Most skaters begin rotating the upper body immediately. The free arm/shoulder comes around to start the shoulders and torso's rotation.

You do have to bring the foot straight through (Squared) or you'll scrape/turn on takeoff -- a big cheat. (Do as I say, not as I do) The Stair-Climbing really puts you into position for the last two-thirds of the rotation. I learned it as "swinging around the firepole." You step up into the jump, then keep the new free leg in front. When you don't cheat (ah, those were the days) it does feel like climbing.

I don't know if you have any tapes of a delayed axel, but it's very interesting to look at. It uses a totally-square entrance and delays rotation until you reach the height of the jump.