#1
|
|||
|
|||
Not a level playing field!
With the prospect of Canadian Adult Nationals coming up I've noticed much discussion of levels and age splits on various discussion boards. I thought you might be interested in my experience at a recent Open competition here in the UK.
It was a dance comp. and the split for Free dance was under level 6 and 'any Standard'. I enjoy Free dance and despite being only level 2 have done this same comp a few times. However, this year the age limit for 'Adult' was lowered to 18. I've always been against an age split in dance comps as I felt I'd prefer to know where I stood against everyone at that level regardless of age (though the kids have age splits). However this year the competition was won by a just turned 18 year old who had been skating since she was 7 years old and was hoping to qualify for the British Seniors competition in Free skating (so would be level 8 or 9 or even 10 in Free skating) She'd taken up ice dance and was about to take her level 5 & 6 tests but hadn't yet. By contrast, I started skating at 37 and have skated for 4 years. In the comp. I was drawn to skate immediately after this girl - daunting or what!!!??? The upside was, we got to watch a very lovely skater in action - and she was a very sweet girl too. Also it may be the only time I ever get to skate against an 'Elite' skater!!! It didn't however make for a very fair competition and it does point up an additional problem with 'Adult' dance comps in that you do get older 'Elite' Freeskaters turning to dance or adding dance to their repertoire and are then exceptionally good skaters but are able to compete in low level dance comps as they havent taken the dance tests yet. I ended up 7th of 12 (actually surprised I did so well as I did not skate my best) but I have decided to make my own calculation based on just taking into account those who are really my level, so if you ignore the couple of elite youngsters and the two who skate in both comps (under level 6 and the 'any standard') I award myself 3rd of 8!!! My conclusion - 18 - 25 year olds should be allowed to skate in adult comps but please, give them a seperate category and/or some provision to ensure adult learners are not having to skate against high level elite skaters who have just come to dance late. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Im 15. I started last year. For the reason you mentioned, as well as the fact that I want to push myself HARD and compete, land triples, and then coach, I wont be adult track until Im simply too old to do high level jumps, although by then I may not care because Ill be coaching. I also refuse to go ISI (there isnt any in my area anyways so I wouldnt be able to compete) even if it were possible because I hate age splits in standard track. Reason: So few low level teens that its not really a competition. Like I said, I want to push myself.
Sadly, if/when I do go adult, I wont be liked for it... |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Pixie: 25 is hardly "too old" for the upper level jumps. What level are you now?
Batikat - I know how you feel. I'm tired of former kid skaters competing at levels far beneath them. Just because they can enter a competition (because of not testing or loopholes) does not mean that they should. It's not that I don't want returning skaters to compete, just do it at the appropriate level. I'd like to see them take the adult tests and compete at the appropriate level. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Not a level playing field!
Quote:
__________________
"It’s never too late to skate at any age." - Alexei Mishin. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Re: Not a level playing field!
Quote:
There is also a huge difference between those who started skating in their teens and those who start in their 30's and up. If you follow the lesson threads and you see what the oldies are doing (and how long it takes us) compared to you youngsters you will see what I mean! I dont' know if there is any way a distinction could be made between continuing skaters and the late starters other than relying on the continuing skaters voluntarily skating up where possible when they know they outclass the competition. I doubt the girl I skated against had realised this would have been an option and I dont' begrudge her the opportunity to compete but we can't have been much of a challenge!! I feel honoured to have been in the same compettiion as her!! skatepixie There is high level adult Freeskating competition too you know - we have a 75 year old still landing all her singles and with the best sit spin I have seen on anyone of any age! And a fair number do axels and doubles. Of course if you compete freeskating you will be at this high level with them. I am sure you can recognise that for you to compete low level dance (even if you have not taken the higher level tests) would make it a non- competition at adult level. I am sure you will find that when you compete adult you will be welcomed but all the more so if you are competing at an appropriate level. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
I think one problem is the balance between number of competitors and level of skating. Our local adult competitions dropped the age limit from 25 to 18 last year and you should have seen the numbers go up: mainly in freestyle... I may have been the only under-25 competing dance: at an appropriate level I do believe.
I don't think I did too much to raise the bar on my own in dance or freestyle. However, many of the other freestyle events had much higher level skaters than in the previous year. I don't think they were sandbagging: they would have done okay but not fabulously in kid competitions at that level and these skaters have probably never competed adult or seen an adult competition before so how would they know what to expect? I would not be surprised if most of these younger girls move up a level or two for next year (as I get older, I'm a lot more motivated to work my way up through tests as I'm ready for them rather than holding off to compete at a lower level - I'd be more likely to compete as I go through my tests until I reach a level where my skating abilities are challenged by people with similar abilities). Personally, I agree that if numbers warrant it, age divisions could be nice. Right now, a lot of adult competitions need to get the numbers first. And in a lot of ways, it is more interesting to have one larger event with an actual competition than several mini 2 or 3 person competitions. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
I think everybody is urging that, in the UK at any rate, "Young Adults" be considered a separate category, as they are in the USA. Where, incidentally, I think this young woman would have had to have skated "masters" or equivalent - there were too many loopholes in the rules yesterday. We were skating, in our free dance, against two couples who were way better than us (I was surprised how relatively close to them we actually finished, but in this case, skating first was an advantage), and can't compete against us in compulsory dance tests, but because they hadn't taken any free dance tests, they could enter that class. I do think tests are tests, and any dance tests ought to count!
And I should add that Batikat is too modest - okay, she didn't skate as well as she did at the British Championships, but she was pretty good, nevertheless, despite having a wretched headache.
__________________
Mrs Redboots ~~~~~~~~ I love my computer because my friends live in it! Ice dancers have lovely big curves! |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Personally I did not have a problem with skating against such a high level skater and thoroughly enjoyed watching her skate but it really meant it was not a competition for many of us, so much as a foregone conclusion. One of the problems for me with the particular competition I was at, is that the ability split is set at quite a high level. A lower level split, or an additional split to level 3 and under and a second at level 6 and under, would have given 3 good competitions with reasonable numbers. This would be more encouraging for more lower level adult skaters to start competing. I would still go to this competition anyway but some adults may feel it wouldn't be worth entering to compete against the young skaters. Even without continuing skaters there are adults who compete at both this level and skate up in the next level too, or stay in a level way after they could be moving up and be competitive at higher levels so there was no chance of a medal anyway but the people are nice and the event is fun. (and very well run!!! Thanks to the organisers) |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
I dont consider 25 too old. I meant that I wouldnt make the switchm, not that I would be too old at 25. Sorry. But, to me, i wouldnt want to compete against ppl with singles and doubles only, as Im going standard track to the senior level...Im not gonna just switch because I can and I dont understand why there are people who do it.
I havent passed prepre yet (I started in march). I have waltz and toe down pat (I can do um in combo too) and I would have a salchow if not for my former private coach....but thats another story for another day... As for dance....not if you payed me...period...Im a huge MIF hater-they're soooo boring...the idea of doing patterns of them to music makes me want to rip my hair out. I mean, I know they are important, but I cant imagine giving up jumping... |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Not a level playing field!
Quote:
Well again, hope I didn't vent too much. It is just extremely frustrating to see "sandbagging" getting worse at Adult Nationals every year. Last edited by kitkat; 10-21-2003 at 12:14 AM. |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Good points kitkat....
I competed at my first AN this past year, and also noticed that there were several skaters in Bronze I whose skating quality was comparable to Gold level skaters at our local USFSA competitions. I wonder if a "restricted" vs "non-restricted or open" FS division could be considered for Bronze and Silver as it is for some of the standard-track levels at local competitions I have attended. That way, the playing field could be more level between those who have elements far beyond the requirements at Bronze and want to include them in programs (such as a sit/change sit or flying camel) and those whose skills are much closer to the test standard.
(edited because I finally found the right name of the regular track events I was looking for...has anyone else ever been to a competition where they have done these two categories within the same level?) Last edited by flutzilla1; 10-21-2003 at 08:02 PM. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
It's a difficult situation. I started at the begining as well. I medaled in Bronze at Nationals, so moved up to silver. I medaled in Silver (4th), but did not have the skills to move up to gold, but skated up when I could in the local events. The year I medaled and the following years, the events were flooded with returning skaters. I asked them why they were at silver and they replied that they were trying to see where they were competitive, and that silver was a good place to begin again. Most of the returning medalists did test up for the following year. However the next year they were replaced by more returning skaters "testing the waters at silver". I don't think they were trying to sandbag, but were obviously competing well below the appropriate level. It's great to "test the waters' and find out where you'll be competitive, but do it at the local events, and go for your true level at nationals! I don't even want to compete in fs anymore.
Pixie, if you have not yet passed your tests, it may be a bit early to worry about the triples. Enjoy where you are now. By the time you get to adult nationals, the rules will have changed and changed again. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
skatepixie, no offense, but I think you're putting the cart before the horse. You have to realize that very few skaters land triples, even with all the hard work in the universe. And those that do generally started skating a lot younger than you. I'm not trying to discourage you from trying, but I do think you're being pre-judgemental about both your skating future and what your skating goals will be when you're 25. (It's sort of like the 15 year old who says they're never going to have children, then turns out to be a happy mom at 25.) You may wind up doing fabulous triples. Heck, you may wind up being the first lady to land a quad in comptition! But I think it's a little early in your skating career to be making blanket statements that, in essence, you won't compete in adult comps until you stop doing triples. By the time you're 25, you may really want to continue or restart competing with people in your own age group. BTW, I'm sure by now someone has pointed out to you that triples are now part of the Masters Mens event at Adult Nationals. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Re: Re: Not a level playing field!
Quote:
But I've never competed myself, though i can tell sandbagging is probably really annoying. There must be fair ways to solve it though.
__________________
"It’s never too late to skate at any age." - Alexei Mishin. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Re: Re: Re: Not a level playing field!
Quote:
One idea I heard today was to go back to including a maximum field/dance moves test requirement which would stop high level Freeskaters competing low level dances but unfortunately also works against those adults who test field/dance moves a few levels ahead of their dance levels. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not a level playing field!
Quote:
__________________
Mrs Redboots ~~~~~~~~ I love my computer because my friends live in it! Ice dancers have lovely big curves! |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
The USFSA does check tests passed for Nationals entries. Some sectionals also verify the tests passed. The problem comes when the returning kids have not tested, or did not test up to their appropriate standard kid level when they were skating (for a variety of reasons). It's very common with the kids that they don't test up as aggressively. There's a great difference between the test and competiton elements at any given standard level. This is a major difference in kids and adult skaters. For the most part the adults are competing at their true test level. I don't think the majority of returning kids who do become adult skaters are intentionally sandbagging. The returning kids have trained and competed with this standard mindset, and it carries over when they become adult skaters.
|
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Now, for adults testing the waters, so to speak. I would have loved to have been able to do my first AN at Silver (if I had chosen to not disclose my ISI test level, I could have - who would have checked the ISI tests in my maiden name?). The reason? After a little more than a year back on the ice, there was no way I could be competitive at Gold (and I wasn't). I may not be competitive next year. I would have been competitive, with my one shaky axel and no doubles, as a Silver. However, the rules are the rules, and I played by them. I know that some of us don't, and that is unfortunate.
__________________
"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson "Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Skater1964 There are returning skaters like yourself who may get the short end of the rules. And I do agree with you - there is a problem with the kids competing far above their test levels, but that's another problem in itself. And it sounds like it was not the USFSA test, but the ISI test that put you into gold. Why would you expect to be competitive a year after returning to the ice? There's nothing wrong with working up to being competitive. It's also not just the jumps. A couple of years ago the gold medalist in gold did not have an axel or any doubles. If you skated as a kid, you may have the advantage of great edges or other skills. Congratulations for being honest - that's worth more than any medal.
|
#20
|
|||
|
|||
thanks for reminding me that I move up to Bronze II next year...
__________________
Champagne in 2005, 2008, 2009 - who's next out of the pre-bronze club...? Wang chung! |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Actually, I hear what you are saying, and you are correct.
__________________
"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson "Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|