OK, bear with me and help a confused AOSS skater . . . I'm in group lessons with the "jump & spin" kids right now who are at all different levels so I have a little bit of flexibility in learning different things in my classes - here are the jumps that I have been working on -

waltz - got it
half flip - got it, very strong on this one
toe loop - was "eh" for a long time but with a few skatingforums tips, got it!
salchow - clueless on this one for a long time, now have the basic idea, just needs practice

and, I am much more of a jumper than a spinner - I can do a 2 foot spin with no problem, and a beginning one-foot spin from backwards crossovers, haven't worked on getting the free foot into crossed position yet though. No backspin to speak of.

I can't decide if I need to just stick with the jumps I am working on now and focus on spins - I am really tempted to start working on the flip because the 1/2 flip is so strong - but should I just leave well enough alone, work on the same jumps and work hard on my spins? particularly the backspin? I know I'm going to need that before I can move on to the loop . . . and beyond .

So, in retrospect, I guess the name of this thread should be "to flip, or not to flip?" Any advice, words of wisdom, etc. for me? (and, I have been reading every tip I can find on the backspin, but feel free to throw in your 2 cents on that one, too!).

Not that I'm as far along as you, but since no one else has answered yet...from what I"ve been warned and my from observing my daughter's skating...you really need that back spin for your jumps.

Not that I'm anywhere near doing a back spin...

j

Edges, edges, edges, cross-overs, turns -- these are the important things to work on in your skating.

You might want to try learning some Moves in the Field or Figures. Get your current jumps and elements bigger with longer runouts on the landings. There is always something more to get what you think is good, better, if that makes any sense.

And have fun! Always!

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I'd work on perfecting the jumps you do have before starting to work on new ones. You say yourself that your salchow needs practice. A salchow is relatively easy in comparision with say a loop or flip, so if I were you I'd want to feel comfortable with my salchow before moving onto the next jump. I would also stress the importance of constantly working on your basics, speed across the ice etc. It doesn't matter how good a skater one is, working on basics is a vital part of training in order to improve!

Nicki

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I don't think you're at the point where you should start working on a backspin, IMO.

I echo the sentiment that you should spend lots of time working on your edges (MITF, anyone?) and also your salchow and SPINS. Spins are notoriously hard for adults, and will require LOTS of practice. It sounds to me like you'd be better served tightening up your existing skills before you start work on a new one. So I think your "next" element should be to work towards a proper scratch spin.

While jumps are important good skills are more so..good edges, quite edges, the ability to generate power with just a few strokes. Learning good basics will make skating much easier in the long run, also learning basic dances will improve all of the items listed above. I did not learn a back spin until after my sit spin and while I was working on my camel, the back spin is the air position for the axel and the double, triple jumps etc.... It can wait

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I'm w/ everyone who says "edges and basic skating skills". These can never be good enough. Are you moving on to privates? Still in group? In either case, ask for your instructor's advice. Nothing wrong w/ learning skills out of traditional order, especially if you show specific strengths. But make sure you cover the otehr bases as well or you will be making up deficiencies later. Been there did that.

Kay

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Moves In the Field!

Moves in the Field

Moves in the Field!

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Why are you skating so slowly? Get out of my way!

If you skate faster, it makes everything look better!

I'm going to be contrary and say do whatever you want!
Work on those things you love and the things that excite you. The first 5 years I was skating, that's pretty much what I did, and that's how I found out what I was good at. Besides, it was fun.

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Yeah, I will echo doubletoe and say, especially if you are in private lessons, whatever strikes your fancy! I have that luxury of working on whatever I want to...if I don't feel like spinning, then we do something else. If I want to learn the camel, then she teaches me!!

That is what is so great about being an adult skater! We can set the pace!

That being said, I would hold off on the flip a bit...you probably need some "prep" work...like starting on your backspin (not getting it but starting it) and some other things. But bring it up to your coach. And keep working on your other jumps.

As far as crossing your foot over in the scratch spin, it will come when you start feeling more secure doing the spin. That is one thing I've noticed in the adults at my rink who are learning it...once they feel confident, that leg goes over!!!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

There are some people who will try new things and go back to re-work the old stuff all the time. There are others who keep looking for the next new thing and never really work on mastering the basics. I can sympathize with both - it's almost always more fun to take on the challenge of something new, and it's hard to work and work and work on the old, tough stuff (like edges, 3-turns, xos, and basic skills).

That said, the skaters who eventually shine are, in my opinion, the ones who learn the basic skills and polish them all along. I remember hating figures (patch, to my peers), but finally admitting that they were the key to every bit of progress I made further down the line. I still struggle with practicing Moves - but the better they get, the better my skating gets...

So in my view, you should do what you want. Try something new, or stick with perfecting the stuff you've learned. But don't give up on re-working the basics, and don't think you'll get as far as you wish (wherever that may be) without having strong edges, Moves, and fundamentals. You have to keep going back and making the basics better. I can't tell you how much it pays off - and how much I see it in every level of skating, not just my own.

Mix what you work on. Continue to work on the old things, definitely work on moves in the field, and learn some new things so you don't stagnate and get bored.

I found I am a good jumper, however, my competitive results didn't get better until I really focused on moves in the field and passed Intermediate.

I'm gonna say work on your spins. I had up to my lutz and no scratch spin even at that point (i'm a stronger jumper than spinner) and BOY was that becoming a problem and a matter of stress! Cuz for the test, I needed a scratch spin but not even any jumps. I somehow miraculously did like 2 revolutions and that was good enough, but eh! For my next test I need my scratch spin again.
I've gotta say though, switching from (bent!) mk21 blades to coronation ace helped my spins tremendously.

Amazingly, my back crossovers in the "wrong" direction didn't get better until I nailed my scratch spin. And my inside-left-3-turn too, so!

I've also gotta say.. the flip is very different from the jumps you're doing, because you need to cross your free leg over the leg that picks and onto which you land, and that's very different from the salchow and toeloop. It's more like the loop, and the loop is very much like a backspin. I got my flip and loop simultaneously because they're much alike.

That being said, I do have a consistent loop and I don't have a backspin. So.

Thanks for all of the input, guys!! I should have mentioned - even though my questions were mostly about jumping vs. spinning - yes, I am constantly working on edges, one of the reasons I like my (our?) coach (she coaches my DS too) is her emphasis on the basics. Her pet peeve is the kids who can't do good backwards crossovers!! I once saw her make the "jump and spin" kids' class do an extended stint of "remedial crossovers" (figure 8's) . . . they were huffing and puffing!! I was complimenting her on it later, for making the kids really WORK . . . she said she actually had complaints from the other parents because they weren't working much on jumping/spinning that lesson . . .but as she said, there were kids there with lousy back crossovers - so she took them back to basics!!

I am at a good point right now, spinning is feeling really comfortable and the Salchow is good and I just want to spend all day at the rink engraining everything into muscle memory!

The group adult class is coming back too - starts up again on March 5th. There aren't many upper level adults, so it's essentially a semi-private. So I'm hoping to get LOTS accomplished next session.

I'm with 2toes, I never appreciated, or worked hard, on back 3's until I got frustrated by my backspin. I never appreciated all that stupid pivot work until I started working my Flip and trying to get my toe waltz into a toeloop. I never worked hard to stop stooping my shoulders until I found it to be crucial for my 3 turns.
enjoy, 2steps foreward, one step back!
Lyle

Laura, sounds as if you are doing fantastic! Congratulations!

I wanted to add that one of the things I regret is that as a kid I never did learn a backspin. Now, coming back after 30 years, I find I'm missing it a great deal - it's been the toughest thing to learn so far. It's great for jumps as well, so it'll come in handy. If you feel up to starting it, and your coach agrees, that might be worth taking a stab at. It's a challenge, though - so don't say you weren't told!

I just had a full 40 minute lesson last week on back crossovers, sigh. I'm impressed by your coach's emphasis on the basics - but please don't introduce her to mine or they'll likely have too much to talk about...

best,

BV

With me, my 3-turns just magically fixed themselves once I started doing jumps and my backspin is improving as I'm doing more and more loops... And oh yeah, my wrong-side back crossovers magically fixed themselves once I started doing the lutz and camel spin...
So I never really see the point of practicing basics myself lol!
But then, I'm the weirdo who likes blunt skates and is only "warmed up" after an hour of jumping practice.
As for crossovers, we have one coach who is particularly sadistic. She likes to let people practice crossovers and spirals for a full hour. It breaks *everyone*. She should be a drill instructor not skating teacher.

Magic 3-turns that fix themselves - can I have some of those??

My backspin is definitely improving; but I had a really nice loop before I learned it (one of my favorite jumps, actually). The backspin is improving as I'm learning back camel and back sit, but I still find centering backward tricky. That warm-up for the axel - waltz into backspin - is still a pain. Sessy, do you find you can do those easily, and does it help w/an axel?

bv