even though there will be an adult standard, doesn't it boil down to what the judge expects to see? I'm in an area where the quality of skating is expected to be very good, regardless of age and they score appropriately. I don't think the judges will now drop their expectations because "oh wait, an adult is skating and we have new rules" or am I wrong?

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I would guess it's a parent of a skater who feels adult skaters (if there are any in his/her club) take up "valuable space" on the ice from his/her precious child. Jerk.

Wow, real nice. Real nice, whoever said that. What do they even care if more adults get a gold medal in their moves? What difference does it make to them? Although, personally, I don't think you should be able to switch back and forth and I was confused because I thought you could only do one or the other once you'd decided. Now I realize why it's not like that. I wonder how big the margin of yes to no votes was on this.

__________________
"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

Accusing people of cheating isn't quite the same. I'd love to know her motivation for saying such things.

Well if they are a good judge, they should enforce the rules as they currently are, not the rules as they want them to be.

But like I said earlier- while I don't know what kind of training they go through, it seems like the numbers are kind of meaningless, and they just write down the passing number if they think the test passes. I've passed tests where all my moves were exactly at the passing standard (I think that's pretty common) and I know there were some moves that I did much better than other moves- it seems like the scores should reflect that.

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Agreed. It just sounds so bitter and condescending

Well, yes that's what I've heard they do (about the numbers), maybe it should just be "pass/fail". But when adults are taking tests on the same session as younger people, I know there is a tendency to compare. It's human nature. Just like dancers & freestylers on the same session are going to be compared. It happens.

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

To be clear, nothing was "wrong". The Board of Directors voted to limit the passing averages beginning at age 25 to avoid unintended consequences of younger skaters who are capable of passing at the standard average.

The quoted comment,

"Adult skaters...you can now cheat your way to a standard moves gold medal by jumping tracks between adult and standard. Better get your tests in because I am coming back next year to fight again."

is vicious and unnecessary, whether the person who posted it on her Facebook page is otherwise a nice person or not. People are certainly entitled to their opinions. And people who choose to state those opinions in ways that are unnecessarily nasty or derogatory can expect that others will take offense and say so.

I have seen quite a few adults pass standard MIF tests who would not have passed if they were kids. I think the judges who passed them saw no harm in it, as they would not be competing with the kids anyway. Having adult scoring for standard MIF simply legitimizes what has already been going on in some places.

While I do think that using an adult gold test to advantage as a coach by not saying it was scored at the adult level would be somewhat unethical, it doesn't bother me either. People who choose coaches based on their skating skills rather than their teaching skills are shortchanging themselves and they are unlikely to change their minds about that as they are blinded by the stars in their eyes.

Finally, there are lots of mean hearted people out there, and making accusations about "cheating" is the least of the ugly things such people are capable of. Let them spout their garbage and ignore them.

__________________

This thread has taken an interesting turn concerning the passing average with adults. I agree that skills decline with age (I'm noticing a decline myself, just don't want to admit it all the time LOL). Does that mean my coach pushes me less? no way! I'm also back in college but am held to the same standard as the young kids...I don't get a different grade just because I'm 4 times older than they are (ha don't I wish?)

I just wish they'd give an option of swapping out the sit-spin on the freestyle test ((sigh))....holding out for that one

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I'm sure some judges give a lot of thought to what passing numbers mean with adults vs kids and some tend to judge them the same, and some will score a passing move at whatever the passing avg happens to be. Or so we think, lol. Judging is subjective, and judges do get training (although I'm curious about how much of that is devoted to adult standards), but you are always going to have variations in opinion and approach.

I have tested both standard and adult track moves. However, I didn't start with the standard tests until after I passed Silver MIF and have only passed Pre-Prelim and Prelim - and since I was probably a bit beyond the level of most kids taking those tests, it may not be the best comparison. On Prelim, I was marked at the passing avg on all moves - when I passed Bronze, I got marked above on the alt BO edge glides. I half-joked afterward to the coach who put me on for Prelim (my coach had a conflict that day) that I was bummed I didn't get any 'over' marks. He thought I should have been marked over on the crossover figure 8s (after jokingly scolding me for expecting too much, lol). But even though I was fast. I was still scratchy (more so than usual - it was insanely cold in the rink that morning and my ankle tendonitis had flared up that week), and it's also possible that this judge just marks passing moves at the avg and no higher.

My Pre-Juv test last May (a retry) might be a better comparison. When I passed Silver (on my 4th attempt), I failed both of the 3-turn moves and got marked above (by 2 judges) on the spirals and power pulls. 3rd judge failed the 3-turns, didn't mark anything over and failed it by 0.2. That was understandable - it was a bad 3-turn day. On my 3rd attempt, I failed the FO-BI turns (passed the FI-BO) and the 8-step - 1 judge did pass me by marking me over on the spirals and power pulls. Each time, there were a couple moves where not all the judges agreed, but I consider a move passed if at least 2 of the 3 judges passed it.

On Pre-Juv, a little less than a year after I passed Silver, I passed the forward perimeter stroking (thought I had a chance to get marked above but I almost ran into the wall at one end), the FI-BO turns, which I hadn't passed on my last Silver test but had passed previously, and the 5-step. I got one passing mark on the FO-BI (no clue why, lol), the back perimeter stroking, and the power pulls. The judges were all over the place - I think the only move they all agreed on was the 5-step. I didn't skate my best, and I think most of the comments were fair. The one move I was surprised about was the power pulls - I felt that I'd done that move about as well as I could have, about the same as I'd done it on Silver, but 2 of the 3 judges said I lacked power. (It bears mentioning that these judges are known to be tougher than the ones who judged my passing Silver test.) Maybe the difference in expectations for standard vs adult track? Or maybe it was just the judges?

One of those judges also happened to be the panel for my 3rd Silver test, and for the 3 moves common to both tests, she wrote the exact same comments, but marked me 0.1 lower (2.7 vs 2.8) on 2 of the moves. Hmmm.

From what I have seen, judges generally cut adults some slack in the area of power, but they have the same standards for edge quality, cadence, placement, etc.

__________________
Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Yeah, they will still be picky here, standards are high. Places like Placid, it won't change, anything flies there.

I just hope that judges who may not be for the idea don't take that personal opinion out on adult skaters and still not pass them even on the lower marks. I don't think that will be an issue with a lot of the judges here--many of them are very, very picky, and the right combination on a panel is a deathwish. But at the same time, some of them are generally really supportive of adult skating, love judging adult competitions, and have a tremendous amount of respect for what we do (some still skate themselves or were competitive as adults but no longer skate due to health and other reasons).

Those types of parents can kiss my behind. People who treat adult skaters like that need to realize that not only do we work just as hard and have every right to be there, but from a financial longevity standpoint, most of us aren't going anywhere. 10 years from now when their precious little ice princesses are no longer setting foot in ice rinks, I'll still be skating. (Probably still in silver free. Ha ha.)

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

Here is a weird question that I don't think I saw answered yet, (but maybe I missed it), ....But if an adult took the Intermediate MITF at the new lower passing average could they take the Intermediate Freestyle Test at the regular standard or would they have to take it at the lower passing average because they took the MITF that way???

I don't believe the freestyle tests are a part of this. They'd still be at regular standard no matter how you took the MIF.

__________________
"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

Oh...so it is just affecting the MITF. Thanks, I didn't realize that. (For some reason, thought it was for all the standard tests).

No reason to be

This stuff is confusing and sometimes changes fast. I'm not at GC, I'm only going by what I read on the internet so I could be wrong (and ) too.

__________________
"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

Well on the GC roundup info on the USFS website, they have the start age as 21!

http://www.usfigureskating.org/Story...561&type=media

I guess we'll just have to wait to see what gets written to the rulebook.

Rob

__________________
Geriatric Figure Skating Crew - President for Life!
Georgia Figure Skating Club - President (again)
Facebook
____________________________________________
"I'm too old to die young, and too smart to be happy" - Kinky Friedman, The Mile High Club

2010 Adult Nationals - earning a gold - "Priceless"
2009 Adult Nationals - competing with a cold is not much fun.
2008 Adult Nationals - Too little sleep, too much vodka!

Any significant pair event changes/corrections or more of the same?

__________________
Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

Adult passing average still qualifies you for the standard freestyle test at the corresponding level (at least for this year, we'll see if GC changes it).

Personally I think that's fine. A jump passes if the take-off and landing are proper with enough rotation. A spin passes if it has enough revolutions in the proper position. I don't see how you can really lower the standards. Judges don't tend to attack things like speed/power on freestyle tests like they do on moves tests (that lead to adults having difficulty passing the moves tests). And strong choreography, flow, edges can make up for a slight lack of speed/power in the presentation mark.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

I stand corrected....the GC roundup info is wrong. It does say 21, but it is 25. Also the vocal info is wrong as well. ALL adult levels will be allowed to use vocals.

These will be corrected today.

So through senior? Or "adult" levels (i.e. up to and through adult gold?)

Ugh this is all so confusing.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

The RFA says "Up to and including the silver level".

Was it amended on the floor to contain Gold (and possibly higher?) levels?

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Sorry to weigh in a bit late on this, but: "cheating"??!!!! Really!!?? That's just d-u-m-b and silly and whacked and weird, because there's not really anything of substance at stake. Adults who compete skate with other ADULTS!! Nobody is going to take this route to the Olympics. In a competition it doesn't matter one whit what your passing average was on your MITF. Nobody is getting away anything here.

As I mentioned before, this could be more of an issue when someone is filling in a coaching resume......although personally I think it's not as big a deal as it would be w/ dance since you are doing the identical test. I also think it remains to be seen how much lenience the judges actually allow, to see whether it's a really huge difference or only a slight one.

I will probably take advantage of the lowered passing average starting at novice. Power was an issue for me for Intermediate (one retry so far), but I'm waiting for the new test to try again, because Int. shifts dramatically from power to control in its new state. I'm more of a 'control' skater. But novice--I doubt I could get the power required to get through that one on the standard track, even though I can skate the test elements.