I don't recall Ice Dancing allowing lyrics in the 1980's, so I think a change was made to the rules. Synchro became much more organized in the last 15 years, so I assume they also have rules in place.

Are there rules governing the choice of lyrics in Synchro and Ice Dancing?
Were similar restrictions included in this new Singles change?

__________________

Screening out songs w/inappropriate lyrics is managed just fine by coaches and parents -- they recognize what might be offensive and avoid it rather than risk turning off the judges or the audience. If this was the original reason for the rule, perhaps it has finally been realized that it is not USFSs place to be the lyrics police.
That said, I just don't believe this was the original reason for the rule. I'll keep digging! If anyone else finds more info please post it.

Vocals, eh? I'd be annoyed about the constant parade of Disney and Hannah Montana music that's coming...

Otherwise, as long as the kids' parents (or adult skater) and coaches use their good judgement in picking appropriate music, I don't see a problem with it. I mean you still have to do all those required elements properly, so you're not left with a lot of time for interpretation of music anyway. (Well, for me anyway! I wasn't allowed a lot of time for interp in my technical program. It was constant "Go Go Go!!! Push Push Push!!!")

Even though I am on hiatus from competing, I'm now faced with having to pick new music again for my TECHNICAL. What perfect timing to know that I now have more music options! . (Of course, I still have trouble finding music for the dress I bought LAST YEAR at AN! (No hurry though since I'm not competing!). And part of me wants to do a big band number as a homage to my aging 'rent-in-laws! Which would NOT go with the dress I bought!)

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

You need to attend an ISI comp.....that is pretty much ALL you hear at the lower levels!!!! sort of numbing after a while, especially if ALL the kids at your rink chose the same music for THEIRS!

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

or basic skills

__________________
Champagne in 2005, 2008, 2009 - who's next out of the pre-bronze club...?

Wang chung!

I never heard or read anything about the vocal issue until now.I am confused if its allowed up to intemed under 6.0.What would be the reasoning since intemed should be under IJS?Even if local comps didnt run IJS, if the skater went to a comp that was under IJS they would have to change the music.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/alaskanmom

Then skaters who compete under IJS should think about that when they pick their music. But many skaters will never ever compete under IJS, so it's a non-issue.

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Yes, the skaters below pre juv dont have an issue. But at juv and above, most comps are under IJS. Not all, and I guess if you know you are only doing comp whatever and they arent using IJS that would be ok.I know some comps are under IJS even at pre pre level so that would be a concern.I think I read that even the regionals on the west coast offered IJS at low levels.I think fiesta skate in az was under IJS for lower levels as well. Unless you know what comps and what rules those comps are using I can see skaters running into problems.

That is why comps have artistic, and showcase programs.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/alaskanmom

Wow, the vocals thing really surprises me. I can't say I'm really fond of the idea. How does this affect interpretive events? It's kind of ironic, as I just picked a song for my first interpretive program. I don't plan on using lyrics for a competitive or test program. Maybe it will be one of those things that the judges frown upon, even if it's allowed.

Synchro has gone back and forth. Lyrics were allowed at all levels prior to about 1993. Then junior and senior were not allowed lyrics (possibly because around this time int'l competition was starting and the ISU did not allow it). All other levels were allowed lyrics the entire time as far as I know (not too familiar with what went on pre-1990 though...but I did compete juv, int and novice when I was young and we def had lyrics in some of our programs). Then in 2004 (give or take a year, don't remember exactly) all levels were allowed lyrics again. I'm guessing again that this correlates with a change in ISU rules that govern junior/senior.

Wait...so we're allowed lyrics now for adult at the lower levels!? I'm not sure how I feel about that. One positive that re-allowing lyrics for junior/senior synchro did have is that it diversified programs more (especially short programs with all the same elements in each program, they became much more of a program with some entertainment value than the boredom that they mostly were with instrumental music). It also kept programs a little more diverse when IJS was implemented. But freestyle doesn't see that problem nearly as much as synchro could...particularly under 6.0. It's not going to diversify IJS programs at all since it's not allowed there. Maybe on the plus side, we won't see every other person skating to Bond, East of Eden, or whatever else becomes popular because there will be so much to choose from. But then again, all the dance teams on my dance session are skating to vocal music that is way overused in dance and synchro already so that pretty much blows that theory (one Bolero track from Moulin Rouge--not vocal but still overused, one Tango de Roxanne, one Michael Buble medley...could the coaches be a little more creative, please?)

I think vocals really takes away some of the challenge of picking, cutting, choreographing, and expressing music and doing it all well. For example, in finding my new music for this year, after 2 yrs of a more serious program, the goal was something fun/flirty (similar to what I'd pick for interp) that I could have a good time with and hopefully that would relax me. I could have easily picked a vocal song I liked, but instead I found an instrumental adaptation of some popular songs.

I think as far as where interp belongs, that's still going to appeal to the people who aren't as strong as spinning and jumping (or are ice dancers who don't jump at all), or the people who really want to do outrageous things. I see numbers in light entertainment/comedy therefore staying the same, but the artistic/dramatic numbers could drop a little if people can go ahead and do that with their free programs. Masters interp numbers probably won't be affected though, since the high freestylers in masters (as opposed to gold skaters and others put there d/t dance test levels who may compete lower freestyle levels) still can't use lyrics.

And there are some people who are notorious for bad music choices. I dread hearing what they'll come up with for freestyle. I think we should start a list of songs that need to be flat out BANNED!

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

Test Track FS events are judged under 6.0. I assume it's those events the lyrics rule is aimed at. Although, there are Test Track events offered up through Senior - if there is no problem with Juv and Int Test Track skaters using lyrics, why not just allow it all the way up?

__________________
Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

The problem would lie in the fact that you would have to then pick to be either a test skater or a well balanced skater when you pick your music. Or pick two pieces of music.Skaters can change for each comp they do.
Maybe they will add it for novice and above after trying it out?

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/alaskanmom

The kids I skate with that do Test Track or Open Juv (which I guess is also covered by the lyrics rule) have already decided that they will not compete under IJS. Not every kid wants to compete at Regionals and has the ability to be competitive in IJS - that's why Test Track was created. If you start skating at 11 or 12, have an axel and 1 or 2 doubles at age 16, you'd rather compete against kids your own age than against younger ones in Pre-Juv and below. Since skaters in this category wouldn't be competitive in IJS Intermediate and up, they do Test Track events, Artistic/Showcase, or synchro.

In some cases, a skater might compete Open Juv for a year and if they get enough doubles to be competitive in Int, they'll do that the following season, but they'd get a new program for that anyway.

__________________
Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Which is fine in large places that offer alot of comps or alot of comps with test track.I understand alot of kids dont do regionals, we never have. All I am saying is it will be confusing if you go to a comp that offers test and then do a comp that only offers well balanced.We couldnt offer test, we dont have enough as it is for well balanced above pre juv.
Our in state open juvs are under IJS, assuming juv is under IJS.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/alaskanmom

Test track wasn't created for kids who can't be "competitive" under IJS, it was created to help with the disparity between test levels and what elite skaters truly need to be competitive at a given level, and to address different goals that skaters have (competing at a high level v. passing tests). That way, at juvenile, a kid whose highest jump is an axel won't be blown away by kids doing double lutzes. But that same kid with an axel at juvenile can keep going on and getting their tests if that's their goal, and compete test track and be competitive there. Under IJS though, the kid who goes out with just a clean axel can still do well, because you are rewarded for what you complete and what you do well, whereas 6.0 tends to be more subjective in awarding attempts. I saw a kid in regular juv at a local competition here go out and skate a clean program with an axel and a double toe and place high because she skated clean and everyone else fell on or cheated double flips and double lutzes.

Test track here at the higher levels is judged under IJS too at juv and above...that might be up to the LOC but at least it was at my club's competition a few months ago. I guess that poses a problem if use of IJS is not consistent because you may need a non-lyric program if you have one with lyrics for non-IJS...

Maybe for test track only. Novice (like jr and sr) is governed by ISU rules and so you can't do it for competitive track. Kids who are going to regionals, sectionals, and nationals with the possibility of qualifying for an international (although those kids are very few) have to abide by international rules. Maybe for local competitions that are small and test track and competitive get meshed together you can overlook the fact that some skaters have lyrics and some don't (not all test track kids would even have lyrics), but as a whole you can't allow it for novice.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

Yes, that's what I was saying - sorry if it wasn't clear. The idea behind Test Track (at least, according to what I read at the time it was created) was to encourage kids to keep testing by creating a comp system where they could be competitive. I know kids who are working on higher level tests b/c they want to pass the test, but wouldn't be competitive in IJS - and I mean in spins, spirals, and footwork in addition to jumps. Not everyone can do Biellmanns, Y/I positions, twisty sit and layback spins, change edges mid-spin, move their arms and upper body wildly during footwork, etc. Test Track gives them an opportunity to continue to compete, if they want.

That's interesting. In my area, all comps use 6.0 for Test Track events. I don't think using IJS for these levels is a good idea, b/c, as I stated above and in my previous post, most kids doing Test Track wouldn't be competitive in IJS and given that they're really on a different path than skaters at IJS events (i.e. not looking to Regionals, Sectionals, Nationals and int'l comps one day), it makes no sense to use that judging system.

__________________
Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Haha!! One of my friends and I have a list (not documented anywhere) of music that is instrumental and vocal for both freestyle and synchro that needs to be retired...we are sick of hearing it!! For example, Mama Mia and Celine Dion for synchro need to GO!! Heard those one too many times this season...

__________________
Skating Dreams

"All your life you are told the things you cannot do. All your life they will say you're not good enough or strong enough or talented enough; they will say you're the wrong height or the wrong weight or the wrong type to play this or be this or achieve this. THEY WILL TELL YOU NO, a thousand times no, until all the no's become meaningless. All your life they will tell you no, quite firmly and very quickly. AND YOU WILL TELL THEM YES." --Nike

ISU currently doesn't allow lyrics for singles/pairs (don't know the ISU rules for synchro). Putting the ceiling at Intermediate and/or 6.0 scoring helps ensure that standard track skaters in levels where there's an ISU level (Novice, Junior, Senior) who have the possibility (although it might be slim to none) to skate internationally won't get hit with a scoring penalty for improper music.

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

The ISU does not govern competitions held by the USFSA or its member clubs for their members, including Nationals.

Do you mean specifically IJS rules?

I think her point was, if you skate novice & up, and have even the slightest chance of being given an international assignment, you'd need to set your program to ISU rules.

I'm confused about this one - about letting judges teach group lessons: is it approved or not? This is what I read on a blog that was covering GC:

323 -Amend rule JR 4.08 (page 74 Rulebook) to allow appointed judges to teach skaters (group lessons) who have not passed any U.S. Figure Skating tests as part of a learn-to-skate or basic skills, and/or group lessons program while maintaining their eligibility to participate as a U.S. Figure Skating judge. Wanted to add (group lessons), but everyone felt it was redundent. DEFEATED and remains as approved by the board.

Was it defeated or approved? (Or do I just have to wait until the rulebook comes out??)

__________________
Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

The rule was approved by the board of directors, but then isolated on the floor for an amendment. The amendment to the rule was defeated. Had the rule been isolated to be stricken or rescinded, and the request to rescind was passed, then it would have NOT passed.

Do you have a link to the blog?

Celine Dion is the TOP of the "music to be banned under new lyric rules" list. As is Michael Buble, and the soundtracks from Chicago and Moulin Rouge.

One thing I realized flipping through my iPod today is that this does mean all the music I thought of using for interp but couldn't get down to a 1:40 cut I liked now can be used for freestyle...I had the next 3 free programs (potentially 6 yrs worth if I keep a program 2 yrs) planned, but the list has now grown considerably. And now I no longer have to remove some of the faint whispering in a few spots of a piece I wanted to use for 2012-ish.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

Here's my issue with the lyrics in freeskate thing. So in a freeskate there is the element scoring and the music/interpretation/artistic score. If there are lyrics, how does that change anything from artistic other than you have a technical element score as well? Are people with lyrics going to be able to get a higher score because they have lyrics and there is a concrete way of interpreting it or adding the artistic part versus someone who has a classical piece that is more subjective in its interpretation? I just see the potential for too much overlap between the artistic and freeskate programs now. Yes, there will be more emphasis on the skating itself and the technical elements. But there are close calls and it shouldn't be lyrics and the artistic interpretation of those lyrics that makes the difference.

__________________
"Without a struggle, there can be no progress" ~ Frederick Douglass

I don't see that as a whole lot different than with instrumental music--some people pick something that can really be interpreted. Swing/big band type music is always popular, as is Spanish music, Amy Entwistle and Karissa Fitzgerald both had great African themed programs that they really worked in terms of costume and choreography, and then you have the people who do more traditional classical music.

Having lyrics versus not doesn't really seem to make much of a difference in ice dancing or synchro where there is always a mix of couples/teams doing instrumental music and more "traditional" programs and couples/teams coming on the ice skating to music with lyrics and something a little more modern and off the wall.

I actually think it could have an adverse effect. People might get lazy because they have lyrics and don't think they need to be as creative in terms of interpretation.

Cutting music with lyrics is sometimes more difficult, too.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything