A little background: I skated seasonally as a child and was at what was then the Juvenile level (US Figure Skating) when I stopped. That was about 20 years ago. Through the years, I skated mostly on public sessions - trying the occasional scratch spin/waltz jump/toe loop, etc. - maybe once a week in the winter to help my daughters practice their basic skills. They learned through the ISI program.

One of my DDs still skates. After ISI World's in Denver this summer, my DD's coach talked me into taking lessons with her. So I have been skating about 3 days a week (while DD skates) since this past September and am loving it.

Last week, she talked to me about testing ISI. I learned as a kid through US Figure Skating and never tested ISI. She thought I could do Pre-Alpha through Delta in one shot. I could probably get through Freestyle 3 right now. I am working on the flip, loop, sit spin, camel, and lutz.

I asked her about the US Figure Skating Adult tests. I already have a membership since I am our club's test chair. My coach wanted me to do the standard track test - I think this was because I am her only adult skater and she is not familar with those tests.

I thought that I read in our rink's ISI competition announcement that Adult Pre-Bronze could skate no lower than Freestyle 3. Could I avoid having to take all those ISI tests by taking the USFS Adult Pre-Bronze MIF and FS?

What would you do?

Did you taken any USFS tests when you skated 20 years ago since you mentioned you were Juvenile? So maybe the Preliminary Freestyle test? If so, this would determine where you would begin to test in the usfs structure whether it be adult or standard.

Many coaches consider USFSA standard track testing to be a perfectly fine option for adult skaters who have power. It may be a compliment, not an excuse, on her part. I had a long discussion with my old coach about it and that was her reply. There's no reason (other than my spazzy turns and footwork) not to take standard track tests.

It's expensive, but some people actually test in both USFSA standard and adult tracks. There are "crossover points" where you can get credit for the MITF testing on one track in order to test/compete on the other track.

Correct. Plus there are some "grandfathering" rules that apply to the older tests to save you some testing in USFSA today.
(For example, figures tests can count for some of the MITF tests.) You have to contact the USFSA to be credited properly, although I was very impressed that they found my old tests without being asked. They just appeared on my profile one day.

I skated ISI as a young adult and only took a few USFSA tests. I regret that now because it would have been easier to have taken the tests when I skated 8-12 hours/week rather than now when I fight to drag myself to the rink.

Some ISI competitions will accept your USFSA tests, others require the ISI test credential. It depends on the competition.

When more than one ISI freestyle test is required, each one has to be tested separately with a program. They can be taken back-to-back on the same session and you can just do a bare-bones program for the lower level tests. You lose a few points for presentation since you won't have "finished" choreography. The highest freestyle test needs a "real" program, though.

__________________

If you're a strong skater, you could stick to the standard USFS tests now that all adult comps (including nationals) will take standard test equivalents. It might give you more of a challenge. Some people stick to just adult tests, others stick to just standard, some do a combination of both.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

Thanks for all the great info!

No - there was no Preliminary back in my day. Basic 8 had all the jumps through the lutz. I never took the Juvenile FS test, because my club was very small and rural. There was ice October through March. They had trouble getting coaches and judges regularly. Testing was very hit or miss.

At my lesson this past week, my coach came with the Adult USFS tests. We are going to work on those.

We are also going to do the ISI. I was just hoping to avoid some of the ISI tests, because the rink charges $15 for the ice fee and then $15 a pop for the ISI tests. Glad to hear that I can take several on the same day. I may have to take group lessons with the kids on Saturdays next session (test fees are included when you do the group lesson ).

So did you pass any USFSA tests at all? If so, which ones (any figures tests?). If you passed even one USFSA test as a kid, you might not have to start at the bottom in the USFSA test structure.

__________________
"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Decide whether the whole test and compete thing is fun, practical and affordable for you. E.g., do you have have flexibility limits that would stop you from doing spirals, lunges, etc.? Do you fear jumping? Then you can't test or compete anything past those levels. I'm not good or flexible enough to do high level stuff, so it just seems silly - for me.

This may be out of date, but AFAIK all ISI tests until freestyle can also be taken from a coach, during one or more private lessons. If you already know how, you can skip the whole rink thing.

ISI and USFSA have made it hard to learn what to do from documentation. But if you learn well that way, you may benefit from clear move descriptions and standards, and from demonstration DVDs.

You can get most of the ISI rules and move descriptions from the Skater's and Coach's handbook (and maybe the test standards DVD?) which you can order here. You may be able to order it through your rink to save shipping. Your coach or the skating director could order the Instructor Manual, which contains other move descriptions.

The express charter purpose of the USFSA is to help elite US athletes to win international ISU competitions. Everything else they do - tests, manuals, lower level competitions, programs - are deliberately expensive to raise funds for that one purpose, and no one at USFSA tries to make figuring out what the rules are easy.

Some good descriptions are in the USFSA Basic 8 Instructor's manual, which I think only a USFSA Basic 8 coach can order, but AFAIK, most of the USFSA test and compete standards are either unwritten, or are spread out through dozens of USFSA, ISU and PSA publications which are impossible for most of us to get, are in complicated legalease, and are expensive.

The ISI program was created for recreational purposes, and is much cheaper. It's manuals are shorter and designed for a more general audience. The ISI written standards are high and specific. But most group lesson coaches let you get away with lower standards.

Most ISI group lesson programs don't formally submit their tests to the ISI, though some do if you ask. So you may think you passed - but not according to ISI. Which means you might still be eligible for the lowest level USFSA tests and competitions.

Some of those things are also true of some USFSA Basic 8 programs. But if you have passed any USFSA tests, or any high ISI tests, you may be ineligible to take USFSA Basic 8 tests, and your rink may or may not let you take Basic 8 group lessons.

There are other considerations. ISI, General USFSA and USFSA Basic 8 seem to be seperate certification areas, and not all coaches coach them all. If you are interested in more social stuff (e.g., group lessons synchro, ice theater), check what is available where you want to skate, and what you can afford, in ISI, USFSA, and rink-run events, and whether you need to join ISI or USFSA at all.

It's all too complicated to me. Why would anyone bother who wasn't really really good?

I think that's silly. The USFSA has specifically made adult track tests, so that you don't have to be "really really good" to get into the testing stream. You mentioned flexibility as limiting to the testing structure- in the adult track spirals don't even appear until the 3rd MITF test, and they are straightline, hip height spirals- you don't have to be Sasha Cohen to pass that (though I do admit getting my "bad" leg to hip height is a challenge. But it's a Silver test- it should be a challenge). Taking tests is a fun way to have a goal in skating. Competitions are just too expensive, and I don't feel I'm "good" enough to compete. But I'm definetly good enough to test.

To the OP- I tested both USFSA and ISI for a couple reasons. To me, the USFSA tests are benchmark goals- they are challenging, but fun to work on. Until I get Bronze freestyle I won't compete USFSA (it's too expensive)- but I enjoy challenging myself to hit the goals of the USFSA tests, and I like working on MITF.

I tested ISI because that was a cheap way to do local competitions. I think I am about at the top of where I will be able to achieve- ISI FS 3. ISI tests are pretty informal until the higher levels, and a coach can test you. But you have to test through ALL the levels, so just have your coach run you through pre-alpha through whatever you get to to register all the tests. (I think they are working on changing that.) The higher levels become more formal with judges, but the lower level you just do each element, and then a program with all the elements and a coach can check you off.

Most ISI crossovers will say that Adult Bronze needs to skate FS3- and until a change goes through with ISI (I don't think it has yet, I read about some new tests they are hoping to introduce in the latest magazine)- you can't just say you have the Bronze test and then skate the FS level, you also have to have passed the ISI tests. It's just that if you haven't passed them yet, you get stuck where you can't compete. The elements are different enough that I think it's a bit unfair, really. But if you can do the elements, it's not difficult, or expensive, to test ISI.

If you email USFSA (maybe adult committee? I've always found everyone at headquarters to be very responsive about directing me to the right person) they will tell you what your old test counts as. For a lot of adults those old tests put them in a tough spot- higher than they can currently skate!

You also mentioned that your coach doesn't know much about adult track- mine doesn't either! But a rulebook will tell you what moves/elements you need to do, and my coach's philosophy is that "if it won't pass standard track, I won't put you out there" takes care of not knowing what the adult passing standard is. Except for one move on the pre bronze mitf, all the moves are culled from standard track, just in a different arrangement. There is no reason not to test standard track if your coach feels you are capable of it, but I chose adult track because I liked the organization of the moves- some of the moves that are the same as the standard track are actually judged at a slighlty lower standard, which I thought would make skating a more reachable goal for me. (For example- 8 step mohawk is a juvenile move, but adults need only reach the "pre-juv" standard when testing it.)

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Dear PinkLaces,

I'm looking at my USFS rules book. If you already passed Juvenile free skate, you are qualified to compete at the Adult Silver level for Adult Nationals, without any additional USFS tests. Conversely, you may not compete any lower than that. At some nonqualifying local competititions, you might even be permitted to compete at the Adult Gold level.

The rules also allow eligibility for Adult Silver level to skaters who passed ISI Freestyle 5, so I am guessing that to compete in ISI you would be placed at FS 5 (but check with them).

Testing in the Standard track--at least in our area--is recommended only to adults who are fairly powerful skaters, especially if you want to move on to the Intermediate level. There are no power requirements for testing in the Adult track, but there are in the Standard track, and that is where most adults who fail those tests are marked down.

*A bit off topic* I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. For starters the Basic 8 instructors manual only covers the basic skills in LTS, which the OP is long past. It will tell you nothing about testing or competing under USFSA rules. Secondly, EVERYTHING you need to know about testing/competing within the US is in the USFSA rulebook, available to all, and is very easy to understand. It's a big, thick book, but it's segmented fairly logically, and I've never had the slightest trouble finding whatever info I was looking up.

Does USFSA take in account when you passed the test, or at least what content was on the test you passed, and how it corresponds to today's tests? Does the Juvenile test of 20 years ago correspond to the Juvenile test today?

I ask this, because if I recall correctly many of the lower levels were added more recently. (Though this is what I was saying about many adults who tested as kids being placed in levels where they could no longer skate. Although the OP may be able to, her skills she mentioned don't seem to be at the silver level)

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

In ISI coaches can only pass you into 6. After that is a panel of three coaches , gold level and its alot harder. Not a walk in the park if you look at their tests.At 8 and above you have to send in a vid to Dallas or test at ISI Worlds or a main comp.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/alaskanmom

I don't have my Rule Book with me right now, so I can't quote specifics, but yes, often they'll specify that a certain test was passed before a certain date or after a certain date to qualify you to a specific adult level. That may still leave some adults in a void, as it were, having to skate at a level higher than they are currently able to manage, due to aging or a long time away from skating. When in doubt, an adult skater can contact headquarters and they'll help you figure out what level you should be at.

There's just too much I disagree with here, so I'll just say that I took my first skating lesson at age 27, have only done USFSA Adult Track and have always felt that it was a wonderful program. We are challenged but not prevented from succeeding.

In response to the USFSA standard vs. Adult crossover levels, a distinction is made between Juvenile tests passed before October 1994 and those passed after October 1994. If the Juvenile test was passed After 10/1/94, the skater must compete in Gold. If before 10/1/94, the skater may compete in Silver. The Juvenile test can be used in place of the adult test so no adult tests need to be taken. See complete rules under "Programs - Adult - Technical Information":http://www.usfigureskating.org/conte...ifications.pdf

__________________
"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Begin rant I like ISI. It's friendly and encouraging, and people are there for the pleasure of skating. There's something for everyone.
BUT I HATE IT THAT TO PASS DELTA I HAVE TO DO A LUNGE OR SHOOT THE DUCK. OH, I can get down there--but at 57 I can't get up. It's not happening.
So why can't ISI give us oldsters a break--like make us do a Jenkins spiral or an arabesque or something. Shoot the duck--<derisive old persons snort>--that's for kids with good knees.
end rant

That felt good--you can have your thread back now

__________________
Great forum quotes:
On Falling: '...it doesn't matter, it's what you do AFTER you fall that's more important' ISK8NYC

I took a look at my DD's rule book. I guess the first thing I should do is check with USFS to see what old tests they have on record for me.

That is the question of the day. I wish I still had my rulebook from back then. I can still see that ugly brown cover(they changed colors every year) and white plastic binding. Back in my day, Juvenile was the first freeskate test and we did figures. That's where the axel showed up and that's all I remember.

At our rink, the lower level ISI (Pre-Alpha through Delta) group class skaters all where lanyards. Once they complete a skill(at instructor disgression) they put a punch next to the skill. Once all the skills are punched they move up to the next level. FS1 and up tests are a panel of 3 coaches. Test sessions are held about every other month. We have to pay a $15 ice and then a $15 patch fee. I suspect some of the second fee goes to the coaches for their time.

I love skating! When I was a kid, I got lessons twice a week during the season(Oct-Mar). My sister(also a skater) and I would go to every public session in our small town(6 days per week) to practice. This will show how old I am - it was only $0.25 to skate for 2 hours!

We had limited skating opportunities, my parents had little money or desire to drive us to rinks where we could skate year round. Sometimes, we could talk them into taking us to the power class in the summer or a summer skate camp for a week. Sometimes we had good coaches at our club and sometimes we didn't. My High School now has a Figure Skating Team (not syncho). I would've loved that! I sometimes feel a little cheated and wonder how far I could've gone had I had the opportunity. I love the USFS has Adult skating! It feels like a second chance to me...to see how far I can get now.

I started my kids skating at 4. One DD quit after a few years. The other still skates, but only in the last 2 years has become serious about it. Soccer was her love for many years and she just skated seasonally...mostly to humor me I'm sure. Now she loves skating. I am willing to invest a lot more time and money in her skating than she is interested in.

When we were at the ISI Worlds in Denver this summer, there were several times when we watched Adult skaters. My DD's coach kept after me the rest of the summer. I started lessons with her this past September. I am so glad! It's been a challenging, but fun!

My DD skates in about 6 competitions a year - ISI and USFS. I could skate in some them myself. We are already there. We were just at a competition this weekend. I got to see the Adult Free skates. There were 3 Pre-Bronze skaters, 3 Bronze, 4-5 Silver, and 1 Gold. It was so inspiring!

Pink, come join us at Adult Nationals - it's quite an experience.

__________________
Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

I wanted to add that, with the exception of one of the patterns on the Adult Pre-Bronze test, I think all of the moves-in-the-field on the adult tests are taken from the various standard track tests. In other words, your coach will be familiar with all of them and be able to teach them to you. Also, you and your coach can see videos of the adult track moves-in-the-field here:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/Programs.asp?id=316
I would recommend the USFA adult tests instead of standard track because the passing standard is a little lower so you have a better chance of passing on the first or second try. They've also taken into consideration adult limitations (for example, you don't have to do spirals until the Silver test, just in case you need to work on your flexibility first). ISI competitions are flexible enough that they sometimes allow USFSA tests in lieu of ISI tests, but USFSA only allows USFSA tests.

__________________
"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

I admit my rulebook is several years old. Perhaps they have changed. It describes various rules on who can and must take tests and do competitions. It does not describe the standards (the judges follow) on how to do the moves, and exactly how they are to be graded. Most of the moves aren't described at all, or there is only a blade tracing. If you read those descriptions that do exist there, it is frequently difficult to tell when the next step in the move stays on the same foot, and when it switches.

Perhaps I misunderstood. It sounded to me like the OP had been near level 7 or 8 of the Basic 8 program, but had fallen below that now. If so, she could view group lessons, ISI or USFSA, as good refresher classes, and good ways to judge whether her body could still do what needed to be done.

---

BTW, flexibility varies by area and by tissue type - e.g., ligament vs muscle. For example, I have no problem getting into a shoot the duck or lunge positions (which are mostly ligament stretches), but a hip level spiral with a straight skating leg and the expected backwards spinal bend is essentially impossible for me (as I have trouble retaining muscle stretches), and I've worked hard on it for 9 or 10 years, and started trying to do yoga maybe 20 years ago. Aside from the early dance tests, that would stop me no matter what I did. Other people have different areas that of flexibility they can never get over.

I would very much love to see an inexpensive socially-based figure skating program for the masses, that everyone can do, the rough equivalent of intro ballroom, square, swing, or salsa dance levels, or recreational hiking, back-packing, ski and paddling clubs. That's the real way to get and keep a lot of people into the sport, especially adults.

Well, it's a Rulebook, not a teaching book. That's why we have coaches, and that's why the coaches spend so much time/money/effort on their own continuing educations. I know that for the dances the rulebook gets *very* specific on what the judges are looking for. Also, you can get a book from the PSA that goes through common errors & more of that stuff if that's what you're looking for....again, I'd consider that a coach's responsibility to have that kind of info.

Also, the rules have changed dramatically in the last several years, and they've even changed how they produce the rulebook, so you might like the new one better.

Wow, that sounds extreme, even by adult standards. Have you tried consulting a physical therapist? I stretched for years and didn't see a lot of improvement in my hamstring flexibility, but after learning specific stretching techniques from my physical therapist, I saw a huge improvement in less than a year. (I agree that backbend is a tough one, though, since it's not just about stretching and lengthening the muscles.)

__________________
"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

What exercises did the PT have you do?

I would love to find clear written explanations of what one should do to improve flexibility, and how to tell what is dangerous (e.g., how one knows if a ligamanet stretch has gone too far towards joint de-stabilization). I've gotten a lot of contradictory advice. I'm probably guessing some things wrong.

I could give you some basic info., but you would really need to go to a PT yourself, for several reasons:

First, you'll need an expert to diagnose all of the different areas were you are tight, and determine whether it's merely muscle tightness or if there's more to it. You may be tight in another muscle that is limiting your hamstring flexibility and you would need to get stretches for that muscle, too. For example, I found out that the hamstring muscle I pulled when trying to do the splits a few years ago was actually because the hip flexor of my back leg was tight, not because the hamstring of the front leg was tight.

Second, the stretches you'd be given depend on your current flexibility level, so they wouldn't necessarily be the same as mine. When Daisies went to a PT and got hamstring stretches a few months ago, hers were different from mine; mine were too advanced for her at that time and hers would not have been effective for me.

Third, you'll need to be shown proper form and have an expert watch you to make sure you are doing them right.

However, one thing that applies to any stretch is that you need to execute each stretch only to the point where you feel a stretch, not pain, and then hold that position for 30 seconds (look at a clock or stopwatch, or count 1-Mississippi, 2-Mississippi for 30). And using correct form when doing a stretch will increase your flexibility much faster even if it means you can barely do the stretch. For example, you may be able to touch your head to your knee when doing a seated hamstring stretch, but if your back is rounded, you are probably getting little to no benefit from the stretch.

__________________
"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics