What I have noticed at some competitions around here is that even if someone from a smaller club has a better skate than someone from a larger club, the person from the larger club tends to place better.
Example:
Small club skater: lands an axel and dbl sal
Large club skater: falls on dble sal, dble loop, dbl flip and 2foots an axel

Large club skater places higher.

Any one else notice this anywhere else?

__________________
Hurrah for Desert Skaters! YAY for Jeff Buttle and Virtue and Moire!

I can't say I have ever seen that happen, at least in my region. I am a judge myself, and if that does happen it should be stopped.

But I have to ask .... you only listed jumps .... what about spins? What about speed and flow and power? What about transitional elements and footwork? Choreography and purpose?

Remember, a program isn't all about jumps. (And it's hard to judge an event after the fact, on paper ... it has to be seen to really know what's going on.)

I dont know a single person that can say they understand a judges decision, it's not like football where you get a goal, you win, a lot of its just down to personal taste, I like chocolate, others dont, some judges may like what you do while others dont which is why you get more than one.

Well, from the breakdown you mentioned (which I think was just an example but if it's an actual situation, then it applies) you said the larger club skater fell on 2sal, 2loop, and 2 footed axel, while the small club skater landed axel and 2sal. First of all, are you sure the small club skater didn't cheat either or both of those jumps? If so they wouldn't count as much. Also, while this is a very debated topic and even I am not sure how I feel about it- the large club skater TRIED a double loop. Doesn't matter if she fell, she tried it, and she gets more points for that than someone who landed a single loop. Especially if it was fully rotated in the air before she fell. That's the way it is. Generally, and this isn't really a GOOD thing, but you better try harder stuff even if you can't land it than play it safe, because that is what will get you more points. I mean look at Senior Nationals this year- how many men ACTUALLY landed a 3axel? 5. How many tried it? 19.

And yes I agree with the poster above me- it's not all about the jumps. If the large club skater had better footwork, choreography, spins, presentation, posture, and overall skating skills, she'd win, and that would be fair.

I knew an adult skater several yrs ago who could not do a 2sal (or any other double). She could do a small axel. She put the doubles in her program b/c she said she got credit for trying them, even though she had absolutely no chance of landing them cleanly. This is probably why judges watch practices so they can see what a skater can really do. If the skater can actually do the jump in practice, but falls in a competition, the mistake is an honest one. If the skater cannot do the jump under any circumstances and falls in competition, it should not have much value. JMO.

Kay

__________________
Visit my figure skating journal
http://www.skatejournal.com/

Because skating is such a subjective sport (although the new judging system should, in theory, help even things out a bit), judges do tend to have their favourite styles of skating, and mark things rather idiosyncratically. We all think that Judge X likes us and tends to mark us higher than Judge Y, who dislikes us (I don't mean "us personally", I mean "us as a skater"). Whether this is true or not, I couldn't say - but I know we all think it, and our hearts sink if we see that Judge Y is on our panel and Judge X isn't!

But at the end of the day, we can't control what the other skaters do, and we certainly can't control what the judges think. All we can do is go out there and skate well - and if we do that, we're winners, even if we place last.

And who knows, maybe the judges will mark me higher now I'm thinner? I can hope, can't I!!!!

__________________
Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Well said Annabel, and on the last paragraph I think you and I both have actually seen that happen and this is my personal theory:

(1) I think it gives an overall improved look.
(2) Because you are fitter you are going to skate better anyway.
(3) Your confidence levels are up.

Anymore points to add anyone?

Just going shopping Annabel will PM you later.

Cheers
Grace