For the life of me, I cannot seem to get this last quarter rotation on my "double" axel. When I jump, I am clearly over my right side and I am completely vertical; but I keep under-rotating. So it winds up being either cheated, or disastrous. If I try to put more muscle behind it, it throws me off my axis and I fall every time. Is there anyone who can offer a little bit of advice? My coach keeps telling me to rotate on the way up and I feel like I am, but I don't think I'm finding my axis soon enough. Any tips?? Thanks in advance.


BlackManSkating

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

Its very hard to say exactly what to do on a very tricky jump. Mayb you can put it on tape and youtube so everyone can view it and give their opinion.

Just wondering, do you do your 2Ax the
Tara Lipinski way? (no step up or leg passing through)
Eric Millot way? (the arms are pre-rotated and already squared off)
Sasha Cohen way? (proper way - both arms and free leg passes through at the same time)

From what it sounds youre breaking out soon, make sure you stay on your right side (i.e. your right hip). As soon as you master that quick snap of your hip, your 2ax will be a blurr in the air.

Have you ever try it on the ground?

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Tim David's Website

Dude, didn't you like, just start skating a year ago? Man, you're crazy fast!

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No idea, but very impressed you're working on it after such a short time.

You're definitely an inspiration to adult skaters and I'm sure you'll be landing it very soon. Well done and good luck.

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If you want the best seat in the house, you'll have to move the cat!

Thanks Tiggerwoos!!! I am doing the best I can but it doesn't seem to be working like it should. Me and my coach are working overtime to pull this together though so I am hopeful.

I started in February of 2006 after viewing the Olympics. So it's been a little more than a year. I don't think I'm fast at all. I just skate almost every day. My coach pushes me very hard, but no harder than I push myself. I'm starting to believe that there is a fine line between a passion and an obsession. LOL

I attempt to do my double axel the Sasha Cohen way. I can't do it lipinski style because I don't rotate as fast as her. All of her jumps had no height. I would like to believe that I am getting at least a foot off the ground.

I'll see what I can do about recording a video. I don't really have a camcorder to do it, but I've been meaning to purchase one to see my mistakes for myself.

I can fully rotate the double axel on the jump harness. I did it 3 times today. But those don't count in my eyes. When I tried to do it on the ground though it's still the same thing. I'm a quarter rotation off. I know I've only been working on this jump for a week but I would like to get a handle on this soon before I develop a bad habit that will prevent complete rotation.

Maybe you are right about me breaking out of my backspin position too soon. I'm so used to having airtime with my doubles that I can open up in the air. I haven't attempted to wait until my toepick touches before I start to check out. I'm afraid that I would touch down and keep spinning. LOL I'm working on the snap during take-off. There are a lot of G's trying to pull me out of the backspin position. You have to do it so fast that I cannot imagine what a triple axel take-off must feel like. Just doing a double is insane.

BlackManSkating

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

Have you tried making a video of your jump attempts to analyze what you are doing? (Also, it could help folks here give more specific pointers.)

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I don't have the resources to do that just yet. I'm getting a camcorder soon though so I'll be the first to put it up. I'm hoping that I'll have this jump soon so that when I do get my camcorder I'll be able to show everyone a fully rotated double axel.

BlackManSkating

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

To keep on spinning after a jump is ok. Naturally the muscle memory of the 2 axel is what your body needs. THE FULL ROTATION!!! Then from there, you will learn to check out at the approx time. Remember if you fall short, it means that you are just hauling yourself in the air and hoping for the best. (Sometimes it indicates that you are tired) Try running your usual doubles at least twice before working on the 2axel so you wont tire yourself out

Try doing 2axels on the ground (carpet floor preff) and see how you do on those. Back when I was a teenager, I was obsessed on getting the 2axel on the ground. It took me a year to learn the muscle to put my weight on. After that I would able to haul into the jump at anytime, anyday.

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Tim David's Website

from what you described, chances are, you're probably swinging the entry on takeoff.

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Keep Evolving. "From this moment forward, every voice that told you - You Can't - , has been silenced." - Freedom Writers

I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean swinging around?? If so, then no I don't do that. I kick straight through. As I get up on my toepick, it turns slightly to the left as I go airborne. Are there any exercises that can help me get into the backspin position sooner?

BlackManSkating

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

Whenever I've seen someone landing double axels consistently 1/4 - 1/3 turn underrotated, they have always started landing them fully rotated within a few months. In other words, it could be that you are actually doing everything right and don't need to change a thing. As you do more of them, you will probably get comfortable staying pulled in longer and tighter. If you do videotape it, the best thing to do would probably be to watch it frame by frame with your coach.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

The jumps i'm talking about are the ones where you muscle it too much and fall. Not the underratoted ones.
I mean probably the shoulders are going too soon, "swinging it" even though you're kicking straight . Another clue that this may be happening is that your feel your toe pick going to the left. The problem i hear often is the need to jump higher. There is really a big difference between double axel and other doubles. Some people work on delayed axels to help.

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Keep Evolving. "From this moment forward, every voice that told you - You Can't - , has been silenced." - Freedom Writers

I can do a delayed axel. I just don't like to use them to warm up my double axel because it just reinforces my bad habit of rotating on the way down. I gotta learn to rotate as soon as I leave the ice, not at the apex of the jump. I asked my coach if I was getting enough height and he told me yes. He told me that I am not getting into rotation fast enough. He says that there is a pause before I snap into rotation. It's causing me not to complete that last quarter turn. I haven't tried it on ice without the harness yet. I believe it will be quite a while before I do.

BlackManSkating

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

I agree about the trying to get the rotation the moment you leave the ice as quickly as possible is one of the really important factors for that double axel, unfortunately I really have no experience at that, apart from that I saw one of the skaters having her take off worked on and it got her the rotation soon after (she was also really really close at that point of time)

Are there any walk through exercises you can do to simulate/help the muscle memory for it?

Also I agree about the "putting muscle" behind it not working, it rarely works for me even on the simpler doubles, usually it is doing things at the right time that creates better height or rotation.

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~
Tidesong

I agree with Tidesong on this - it sounds like you just have to keep working at it for a while to get the muscle memory to get the snap into rotation faster. There are spin exercises that people do to increase their checkout speed but I haven't heard of any for getting into the position faster.

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Keep Evolving. "From this moment forward, every voice that told you - You Can't - , has been silenced." - Freedom Writers

dont forget about your transitions and in between moves + choreography

btw, do you have skating pics of yourself?

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Tim David's Website

You are right Tim. I haven't forgotten about transitions and we definitely haven't forgotten about choreography. Memorizing this choreo' is a challenge too. Fortunately, I have time to get it right. No I don't have any pics of me on the ice yet. As soon as I get them though, I'll post them up on my myspace music page. I might have to create a second account just for skating. I don't think sharing them is going to work.



BlackManSkating

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

1.) Start with pieces of choreography, like a 5 seconds intro into a jump or spin - you see skaters who kinda get into it during warmup or practices (without their music)
2.) Then after you feel comfortable with that, then add another 5 seconds after the jump and/or spin
3.) Then combine a 5 sec chor. into a jump 5 sec chor. into a spin then add another 5 sec.

Those should be good excercise for you. Do you have any pieces in mind?

Will you be debuting at
Halloween Classic - Aston, PA? or New Year's Invitational - Ashburn, VA? before Sectionals on March 2008 in NJ

__________________
Tim David's Website

Once I am able to land a jump 3 times in a row successfully, my coach adds intro steps and places my jumps on patterns. He wants to get me used to doing my elements at certain places on the ice to build consistency. I've never tried to put choreo on the end of a jump when practicing. That is interesting. Since we are trying to strengthen my checkout speed and landing position, we focus on that. For my double flip I have a few connecting steps followed by two swing rolls before the 3-turn and then I pick and rotate. For the axel and for the future double axel, I do a mohawk followed by BO - FI - BO - FI brackets on my right foot, then I step to my LFO for takeoff. For my double loop I do two series of double 3's and then I step up into rotation. The salchow I work into connecting steps too. I try not to have any long pauses that indicate that I am setting up for a jump until I am already airborne. Anything to get those GOE and transition points. I gotta get used to this IJS system. But my goal is to disguise my jump setups and not to screw up the footwork into the jump. If I mess up the footwork, the jump is doomed before it happens.

I have my competition sights set to eastern sectionals and adult nationals. I may be biting off more than I can chew, but I really want to see what I can do under pressure. I could care less about a medal so I will just go out and do the best that I can. If I do great, cool. If I don't, then I've still had a great learning experience and I've met a ton of skaters in the process.


BlackManSkating

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

Awesome, good for you... I planned just like you back in 2004. I thought by 2005 AN I would be in gold level. I forgot the expenses, ice time, test failures, and health issuse would all come into play.
I ended up skating in the bronze level at 2005, then thought 2006 would be the year of ch. gold.. nahs, health issues plus test failures came in my way. I ended up not skating at all at the 2006 AN. After a lot of $ harships, I was able to finally pass my Silver MIF and Free then I got to compete at this year's AN as a silver skater. Now I wish I can say I am skating to gold next season, but my body and mind are playing games with me, with the AXEL (Not to mention $ to do the Gold tests) So reality is, Im skating silver next season again. If I dont get an axel, I can kiss the gold level good-bye.... Anyways, thas that
Hopefully you have a smoother journey towards skating at the AN in CH. Gold level

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Tim David's Website

I truly am sorry to hear about that man. I can only imagine how tough this has been on you. I'm working hard to get ready for these tests. I will not take them if I don't think I am ready. So I'm going to start in increments and then step it up from there. I hope things work out too. I am optimistic but I am also very cautious. Hey, go ahead and test Gold level this year. You could make it.

BlackManSkating

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel