Good point, skittl.... Very confusing...Will have to wait and see....

At ANs when this was announced, Lexi said that the adult MIF test would qualify you to take the standard freeskate test for that level. I do not know if what actually passed at GC reflected this, but it would make sense. One reason for taking moves tests is so that you can take the corresponding freestyle tests.

And even though skaters are elegible to compete at age 21, the moves test don't apply until you are 25. Probably to prevent a number of issues that could arise. 21 yr old passes senior MIF at adult standard, takes senior free skate, can they compete at collegiate nationals? 21 yr old who attends Western Michigan University passes novice MIF at adult standard, does that mean they can skate on that school's senior level synchro team? [USFS requires novice MIF for senior synchro, although most senior teams on their own require higher tests]? Same problems can come up with free dance. The chances of those issues coming up for a skater 25+ are much less.

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2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

The stated purpose is as follows:

Rationale: This change provides an option for adults and adult masters to take adult and standard moves in the field tests, but makes allowances for skaters with depreciating skill sets. This structure uses the same formula for computing passing averages as was used for the Adult and Masters Compulsory dance tests.
Financial impact: A positive financial impact on clubs, coaches, rinks and U.S. Figure Skating is anticipated as this should encourage more adults to test. There will be a cost for Headquarters to add these additional tracks to the database.

Seems as if it would be counterproductive to have adults go through Gold, then have them go back and repeat everything through Pre-Juv at the standard level before starting at the Intermediate level on the Masters or Adult track.

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You miss 100% of the shots you never take.--Wayne Gretzky

Great idea!!! I'll be watching this closely.

What? Why would they have to do that?
Already when you finish Adult Gold you cross over to Intermediate.

Interesting- does the proposal say this? The quote on the first page says Adult starts at 21. (I don't have access to the RFA's because my membership isn't current since I didn't test this year.)

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

P.S. Does any one know where an adult skater who took and passed the standared Pre-Pliminary MITF would start on the Adult MITF tests? (At Pre-Bronze or Bronze?)

[QUOTE=RachelSk8er;415159] I do not know if what actually passed at GC reflected this, but it would make sense. QUOTE]

I'd just like to point out that NOTHING has actually passed yet, since Governing Council doesn't begin until tomorrow. Carry on...

Looking on page 4 of the Testing Rulebook:
http://usfsa.org/Content/Tests%20Boo...20diagrams.pdf

TR 19.01 The standard moves in the field tests are divided into eight classes to be taken in the following order: pre-preliminary, preliminary,
pre-juvenile, juvenile, intermediate, novice, junior and senior.

TR 19.02 The adult moves in the field tests are divided into four classes to be taken in the following order: pre-bronze, bronze, silver and gold.

A. To qualify for any adult moves in the field test, the candidate must be 21 years of age or older and must have passed the preceding adult
moves in the field test.

B. Adult skaters who have passed the adult gold moves in the field test are permitted to take the standard intermediate moves in the field
test without testing the standard pre-preliminary through juvenile moves in the field tests.

C. Adult skaters who have passed standard track moves in the field tests will not be required to take adult MIF tests per the table below.
Standard MIF test passed Adult MIF test not required
Preliminary MIF Adult pre-bronze MIF
Pre-juvenile MIF Adult bronze MIF
Juvenile MIF Adult silver MIF
Intermediate MIF Adult gold MIF

Note: Moves in the field equivalencies are allowed in one direction only from the standard track to the adult track, not from the adult track to
the standard track except as described in TR 19.02 B above.


Rob

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Yes, this is spelled out in the tests section of the rule book (TR 19.02 C). It says that an adult who has passed the standard Preliminary MIF test is not required to take the Adult pre-bronze MIF test. Therefore, if an adult has only passed the standard Pre-Preliminary test, they would still need to take Pre-Bronze.

By the way, the same rule (section A) clarifies that the adult MIF structure applies to skaters age 21 or older.


Eh - Rob beat me to it!

Thanks for the info!!!

Well....if this thing passes, guess I'll just have to start at the beginning....Fair enough.

Hope it passes.

Thank you - I thought our club rep was away this week at GC. Each proposal has a vote count after it, so I am a little confused about the process. Whose votes are being counted for these proposals before they're submitted to GC?

This I understand:
Someone submits the proposals to the committees
Someone votes on whether or not to send a "Request for Action" on to GC?
Then, the GC reviews and votes on the proposals, also choosing the effective date for those that pass.

Is it pretty much a rubber-stamp approval, given the preliminary voting that already took place, or are there sometimes debates?

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That's going to be very confusing. Most test chairs are skating parents that know nothing about adult skating. I understand the rationale as you explained it, but I see the potential for problems - skaters getting confused and signing up for the wrong test, test chairs getting confused when registering or entering results, etc. Couldn't the problem be solved by specifically requiring standard track MIF tests for collegiates and high-level synchro?

There are debates if a delegate or group of delegates ask for an item to be isolated and discussed, but I think that also requires a vote. Basically, if the majority want to give a rubber-stamp approval, that's what happens. The votes next to each item in the RFA are the committee votes.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Well, that's technically not true. Many items are first passed by the Board of Directors, and only talked about/voted upon by the GC delegates if they're isolated from the RFA at GC. Contentious issues do usually get isolated, but not always.

I don't think this will cause any issues. By the time a skater who is in their 20s gets to the point where they are taking intermediate-novice moves, that means they have been skating for a while. They should know what test to sign up for. And any potential headaches can be solved by a simple "(Age 25+)" printed right on the test forms.

Judges should also know. They're supposed to double check the papers they get from the test chair before each group of tests to make sure they have the right skaters, right test forms, etc. On every dance test I've taken since I came back to dance at age 26, the judges have ALWAYS double-checked with me before my test (usually they call me over during the warm-up) to make sure that I am, in fact, taking the standard test.

Or maybe I'm just spoiled at my club since our test chair is a judge (she usually doesn't judge on our club's test sessions to avoid conflict of interest). She was an adult skater and judges adults. Another judge who is a staple at our test sessions is a former adult skater whose husband still competes and can be usually seen on the panel at midwest adult competitions, too. So it helps when there are people around who know the rules. Those two are usually on panels at other rinks' test sessions, so they know what's going on. The test chair before our current one who sometimes helps/fills in is a coach and adult skater (who used to compete dance with husband of previously-mentioned judge).

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

RachelSk8er- can you clarify where you are getting 25+, and not 21+ from?

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Because I just realized they're requesting both the deadlines for Sectionals and Nationals be changed......just thinking out loud about the Sectionals deadline. Easterns was the third weekend in February this year. If they changed the deadline to Feb 1st, that gives the LOC like 3 weeks to know who's entered for the Championship events. Wouldn't they need a little more lead time than that? Usually 3 weeks before a comp people are clamoring for the schedule, not just getting their apps in and let's be honest, a lot of people wait till the last second to get their apps in anyways. Sectionals was in March in 2008, and February in 2009 and was split between February and March in 2010.

I REALLY wish I was going to Governing Council again this year. I'm SO interested to hear the discussions that will go on regarding this and the lower MIF passing averages!

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True, but that's assuming the test chair knows about the rule change and the different test options and age rules for each. It sounds like you have a very knowledgeable test chair, but not every test chair is like that. For a year or two after the min adult age was lowered to 21, I still saw test (and comp) forms with 25+ on them. And most adult skaters I know (unless they're on this board ) don't know about various rule changes.

That brings up another issue - how can rule changes from GC be communicated better to the grassroots level? The coaches in my area who coach high-level and elite skaters are generally well-informed about IJS changes and other rules pertaining to their skaters, but other info seems to take a while to trickle down to the rest - I know the PSA sends out GC updates to its members - should the Adult Committee do something like that for adult skaters (if e-mails can be segmented like that)? Are communications sent to test chairs, or to club presidents?

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Lexi at the adult committee meeting at ANs.

OK, I'm sorry, but if people don't bother to read something simple, like an applicable age, that is printed on a test form when their job is being the test chair, that's a bigger issue than a rule being confusing. I don't know how you could make that any more clear. And again, an adult skater should be responsible and know what they are signing up for and make sure it is correct when they get there for their test. Which brings me to my next point...

Adult skaters at various clubs also need to educate themselves and speak up and be a resource, whether it's serving on their club's board or simply being a point of contact. Coaches who don't really work with adults aren't going to just know the rules for adult skating, although the hope is that they will familiarize themselves with them if and when they do coach an adult. (That's like expecting someone who doesn't coach synchro to know the rules for synchro...they don't. There is no reason to.) Board members who are the typical parent of a kid who skates, at a club with very few or no adult skaters, won't really know that either. So as an adult skater, know the rules or know where to find them or who to point people to. Take it upon yourselves to educate people in your club and our coaches, or to serve as a reference when someone has a question. Don't wait around for the USFS or PSA to do it for you. You'll probably be waiting a looong time.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

Hear, hear, RachelSk8er!!! Let's nip learned helplessness in the butt, er, bud! I was just voted in as our club president (yes, I'm mad for glory and power) and I'm going to make commmunication my first priority. I'm flabbergasted about how little my fellow club members know about USFS, ISI, and, ahem, skating.

For our upcoming test sessions, the ADULT levels were omitted from the forms....I had to remind the test chair that I was going to test and that YES, there ARE test levels for adults. and the next form that came out omitted pre-bronze completely (so I'm writing it in)...sheesh!
I give my club board resources for adult skating, competing, competitions, etc. and they throw it away. They have no interest in attracting more adult skaters or drawing in more to the competitive ranks. You either do LTS or shows. Period. It's frustrating.
Even when you have a rink that is registered and teaches through the ISI skills structure, and the girls compete USFS....they don't know anything. At our club meeting the other night they were discussing restrictions for freestyle sessions being Gamma and higher, the parents were "what's gamma?"

ok. There is a chart on the bulletin board with the skills structure. And it's on the form they fill out when they join the club (the one with the rules you read, and sign).

I think there is a level of apathy amongst the parents/coaches/skaters. They just don't care unless they are made to and it concerns them.

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Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

The problem with relying on adult skaters to educate themselves is "you don't know what you don't know."

90% of what I know about adult skating started here on this board, and then I went to look for further information. 95% of what my coach knows came from me.

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

As much as I dislike the redesign of the USFS website, I like that the the adult page is the first listing under programs (by virtue of alphabetizing, but still). It doesn't have a ton of information on it, but it's a good resource for a beginning adult skater looking for the basics. Plus, if you google "adult figure skating", that's the first page that comes up. And, I just realized, the page has a nice photo of my coach from when she won in 2007.

If you don't know what you don't know, Google is your friend. And I'm not saying that to you, Jessi, just in general. The basic information is out there, what else do we have to do to get adult skaters to start educating themselves?

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

And if something like the fact test chairs or a skater *might* get confused over this rule would be a possible deterrant from people voting yes to it, I'd be royally annoyed. It's not that hard to figure out. If you're a test chair, it's up to you to know the tests and the structure, period.

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

I'm not sure what test forms you're referring to, but if you're talking about the forms used by the judges to write down marks and comments, there are no age rules anywhere on the adult test forms. If you're talking about the test application, that is the responsibility of the test chair to create, and if the test chair doesn't know.... There is a guide for test chairs somewhere in the twisted maze that is the USFSA website (which hopefully will incorporate the new rules ASAP), but my test chair didn't know it existed until I mentioned something to her about it - she couldn't find it when she searched so she called the previous president (now off the board but still helps out) who sent her the link she had in her records. (and test chairs may not know to download a new copy, b/c they may not know the rules changed....)

I once e-mailed a test chair (not my club but another in the area) a scheduling request for my test, mentioned my test name, and the woman (who is very nice and supportive of adult skaters) e-mailed me back to ask "What's Silver MIF?" Now, this was her first time as test chair, but the name IS printed on the test form - presumably she knows what MIF stands for (how many MIF tests has she signed her daughter up for?) and knows I'm an adult. I explained it to her and she thanked me and said she was going to go read the test guide to familiarize herself with all of the tests. At least she was trying....

(Good luck on your test, S@D!)

Exactly. And that applies to test chairs and other club board members. My club has an e-mail newsletter and we just set up a Facebook page, so we can use those vehicles for communicating GC changes, but not every club has or wants to do that (I know they should, but shoulda, coulda, woulda....). And sometimes it's an issue of time - test chairs and other club officers are volunteers, with families, jobs, etc., and skating rule changes are not their priority - they just depend on their kid's coach to tell them what they need to know.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Not everyone is comfortable, or has access to, the internet. I'd say by virtue of the expense of the sport we can consider that all skaters have the money to have access to the internet, but it doesn't mean they are good at it. This board is obviously not a representative sample of "could you find this information" because clearly, we are all pretty comfortable with the internet to have found and become active on this forum. If I know I don't know something, I can find it out (for example: what moves are on the silver test? I looked it up and told my coach). But if I wasn't on this board- and my club didn't know about these changes, how would I know to go look for them?

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)