OK. Need new blades. Currently in Pattern 99. Doing mif, some single jumps, chasing an elusive scratch spin. Adult, started late (age 46) skating 7 years. Coach says go to Gold Seal, his personal favorite, and the favorite of my former coach in NY. Heard good things. Lacking a little confidence, i.e. "do I deserve this blade?" Getting mixed reviews from friends. So, just wondering what you guys have to say???????

Speaking as the mom of a skater on Gold Seals, a basic skills coach, and as a late onset skater myself (started at 53, now almost 59): It has nothing to do with deserving. IMO, you don't need Pattern 99's much less Gold Seals. Those blades benefit skaters doing doubles and up. It's a waste of money for you (and me, just to be fair here). The Pattern 99 is a fairly flat blade and is lower to the ice than others, which makes spinning more difficult, and could be why you are still chasing the elusive scratch spin. Try the Coronation Ace, which is easier to spin on and is the blade most skaters use for learning singles and Axels. You will save yourself a bundle of money. And don't forget that Gold Seals are difficult to sharpen and one bad sharpening can ruin them.

The fact that Gold Seals are your coach's personal favorite should have nothing to do with your choice. If your coach is a high level skater who started as a kid, then he is wedded to the blade by almost a lifetime of experience which is nothing like your 7 years of experience rather late in life. My personal favorite boot is Klingbeil custom, but I would never recommend it to my beginning students because they don't need it, and they have not yet committed to skating enough to ever need it. My daughter loves her Gold Seals, but I will never be doing Axels and doubles, so I would not even consider it for myself. If you had been skating one year and had all your singles and were working on your Axel and doubles, then it might make sense for you to buy Gold Seals.

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I use Gold Seals and used Gold Seals as a fairly novice skater as I got some cheap by accident (not knowing what I was buying). I LOVE them and would always buy them (or something similar) again. HOWEVER ... if you're happy in the Pattern 99s I can see absolutely no reason whatsoever to change to a blade which may or may not suit you.

A lot of people love the Coronation Ace blades, I didn't get on with them but I am very much in the minority. I found them slow and didn't feel as 'safe' in them.

Like boots to a certain extent it's what suits you and also like boots it can often be a mistake to buy a 'better' blade as they can cause more problems than they will fix. Just because it's top end doesn't mean that it will improve your skating I wish it did .....

Things that I like about the Gold Seal are that I found the security of the edges to be better, I could be a lot braver in them. I found spins more difficult (but I'm not a 'spinner' anyway). I found jumps (both edge and toe) easier.

Stick with what you're happy with

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The best whisper is a click

ITA with DBNY that the Gold Seal shouldn't be chosen because of favoritism, but because of need. I've used Gold Seals since 1983, I believe.

I switched from Pattern 99's to those Gold Seals and my spins did improve. (Thanks for explaining why, DB) At the time I was a young adult doing axels/doubles and flying camels. I no longer "NEED" Gold Seals based on how I skate today. I tried to go back to Pattern 99's a few years ago and really struggled with centering spins, which has never been a problem. Also found myself rocking off the heel of the blade constantly. (Maybe the tail is shorter?)

I returned to Gold Seals and I can skate well again. I don't do doubles anymore, so technically it's "too much" blade for me. But, it's what I'm "used to" using, and it would take a lot of work for me to change back to Pattern 99's.

Sharpening Gold Seals is an issue - I drive an hour to get a sharpening because I don't trust the nearby pro shops with these blades. The initial cost alone makes you want to take good care of them. (Not that I actually wear my hard guards. LOL) I've had uneven edges, altered profiles, and clipped heel edges from poor sharpenings.

I know of several high-level adult skaters who use Pattern 99's for freestyle with no problem. Why do you want to change blades? Are your current ones worn down to the soft steel? Maybe you really need a good figure sharpening. I'd try that before buying new ones, unless you're getting new boots and this is part of the planning.

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Yep, and I'm one of them. I'm a Silver skater using Pattern 99's for quite awhile. I've never had a problem with them and have no plans to change.

The reason I need new blades is this. I have been using Pattern 99's for the past two years. The blades before that were Coronation Aces. They were OK, but I liked the 99's better. I always had some trouble of the left moves, but chalked it up to just being stronger on the right side. I skate at least three days a week so I want a quality blade. I moved one state to another and had my blades sharpened in a pro shop. I noticed that after that sharpening, I was pulling up a lot of snow on the left and it was making a scraping noise no matter what I did. Eventually I worked it out, but it was annoying for awhile. And, I never felt truly comfortable with the left boot. I needed another sharpening so I tried a different guy. When he returned the blades, I no longer had any edge on the left - the right boot was fine, the left was worse than a rental. I had tremendous lateral movement and could not grab an edge at all. I sent them back to him and he tried again, but called the next morning and said that not only was my blade twisted, but there was no more steel on the left front of the blade. When I saw them I could see why I couldn't get a grip on the ice. Right behind the toepick is no steel whatsoever. In fact, the blade looks scalloped out. So, I need new blades. At that point, my coach said to get the Gold Seals. I started asking around, and like the title of the thread, I've gotten so many different responses that I became confused and started the thread. Still interested and appreciate any suggestions or shared experiences. Thanx!

I use pattern 99's and have never tried Gold Seals - I do have problems with spins. When I switched to Pattern 99 from Phantoms about 4 or 5 years ago, my spins got much easier and I took that as a very positive development. It is possible though that my Phantoms had been badly sharpened too many times and no longer had their original rocker shape.

I use pattern 99's and have for years, mine also have the k pick but that's not an issue for you. I love them and I spin pretty well, I've never tried gold seals but I hear they are nice as well. In all honesty if you aren't doing doubles and high level moves, etc. it's a lot of blade. Either one.

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Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

I skate 3 times a week, am doing single jumps, and I have MK Pros. I'm with the others on this board that say Pattern 99s and Gold Seals are a bit beyond your level. When I was at Klingbeil getting my new skates, I was discussing blade and boot weight, etc., with the younger Klingbeil and he told me that Sasha Cohen uses Gold Seals and that they are relatively heavy blades (Sasha and I are about the same size...well, I have a bit more body fat). That gives you an idea of what level of skating Gold Seals are designed for. I think I read somewhere once that Todd Eldredge uses Gold Seals.

It sounds like the sharpeners in your area aren't the best - if Gold Seals are difficult to sharpen, then you definitely wouldn't want to have those guys work on them. If you really like the Pattern 99s, then stick with them, but be careful about sharpenings.

Remember, any of the blades mentioned on this thread are "quality blades". You don't need to spend $400 or more to get a good blade that will last a while and get you through all your singles and axel and maybe some doubles, depending on how far you want to go. My MK Pros are just under $200 and they've held up quite well.

I would see if I could find used good blades first. Otherwise I agree on the pattern 99's. You deserve good blades, just don't buy more than you need. Think about it. If, IF, you plan on working on doubles and harder moves in the future new gold seals might be wise. As an adult our feet don't grow and you can get many years out of your blades. I have gold stars and love them.

Chico

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"I truly believe, when God created skating, he patted himself on the back."

Is there some reason you prefer blades with a 8' rocker instead of a 7' rocker? I find a 7' radius easier to spin on because I can find my sweet spot better on the rounder blade. If you are open to a 7' radius blade, an MK Professional or Vision is a very high quality blade without the features that make the more expensive blades hard to sharpen (i.e., side-honed and/or tapered).

A last bit of advice: when you get new blades, whatever your decision, take the time to have an experienced professional put them on. You can buy them whereever you want, but start looking for someone to mount them now, so you'll have your plan in order.

For the cost of a blade mounting fee (under $40 US) you can save yourself a lot of aggravation. I'm speaking from experience: when I last switched from Pattern 99's to Gold Seals, I impulsively let the person who sold me the blades mount them on my boots and sharpen them. I didn't know that the salesman was not a figure skating expert. He tried to reuse the same holes in the boots when he mounted the blade. I ended up with a very expensive torqued blade that gave me a different edge on the front of my left boot from the back. When you looked down the blade, you could actually see it bend. After trips to Klingbeil and another pro shop, I ended up with Jim in Hackensack who finally fixed the mess. Never again!

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Yes, you have all named all of my fears! I sent the blades and boots back to the guy I used in NY, who is very good has years of experience and is used by many coaches and top level skaters. I have had Klingbeils but switched to Jacksons. OK, now who can tell me what the difference is in the 8' and 7' rocker? I don't get it and haven't found a good explanation. There have been replies saying spinning goes better on the 99's and some say the Gold Seals. Believe me, I need all the help I can get. Spinning is the monkey on my back. I have tried spinning in four different kinds of blades, (two were beginner blades, then the Aces and 99's) with at least 6 diffeent coaches, and still cannot manage more than a halfway decent two foot and a minimally decent, happens sometimes, one foot. Forget scratch. Some ppl are just not spinners and I'm thinking I'm one of them. I know you'll ask me next why so many coaching changes, but I stick to the same coach, occasionally get a different perspective, but I go to the adult camps and work on spins with everyone to try and catch it. It remains out of my grasp. As far as sharpening goes, the pro in NY has a lot of experience sharpening Gold Seals. Not saying I'm getting them, just information here. So, my decision is still hanging there. I know I don't have to decide anything til Saturday when the NY guy looks at the blades, tells me what happened, and puts his two cents in. What I will probably do is go with the recommendation of my current coach, my former coach, and then weigh in what all of you say. So, thanks in advance. Further discussion more than welcome...........

To ISk8NYC: How did the guy in Hackensack finally fix the mess? Did he take the torque out of the blade? That is exactly what was happening with my left blade too. I don't know how I have managed to skate with it, after I saw what it looked like. Wonder why no one else noted it was twisted.

The bottom profile of a blade (the part in contact with the ice) follows the arc (curve) of a circle. The rocker is a measurement of that arc. When the circle has a radius of 8', then the rocker is said to be 8'. Likewise with 7'; the rocker is an arc of a circle with a 7' radius. Of course a circle with a larger radius is a bigger circle, making the little bit of it that matches the bottom profile of the blade flatter than that of a smaller circle. A flatter blade give you more contact with the ice as you skate, making turns and spins more difficult. Because you spin on the little bit of blade just behind the toe pick, if you have a smaller rocker, you have to go up a little more to get to that part of the blade and it is easier to keep the rest of the blade from scraping and grinding your spin to a halt. If you have a larger rocker, making the blade flatter, you don't have so far to go to reach the spin spot, making it more difficult to keep the rest of the blade off the ice. In theory, the flatter blade (larger rocker) is harder to spin on for that reason. Nevertheless, some people just naturally do better on it. Hope that helped.

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He removed the blade and used a vise to hold it straight. Then he plugged the holes in the sole and re-mounted the blade where it belonged. The vise held it straight.

Once it was on properly, he then did a normal blade mounting/adjustment. One thing I really like about Hackensack is that there's always ice available. Jim had me actually skate a bit during a freestyle to try out the adjustments.

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Wow, thanks for all the information. There is no one here where I live, that I know about that has the kind of expertise you find in Hackensack. The info on the radius/rocker bit was very interesting and I thank you for taking the time. J

So when you get new blades, they shouldn't be mounted in the old holes? I never knew that. (Or is it just certain types of blades or if you're changing blade models?)

I just got blades (MK Pro) mounted on my Klingbeils today. I chose to go to a rink/shop 1 hour and 15 min away b/c of a lack of good fitters/mounters in my immediate area. Fortunately, this guy's new shop (he used to be a bit closer to me, but still a trip) is at a rink, and he went with me as I skated on the public session and he had me do straight-line 1-foot glides and crossovers and edges to make sure the mounting worked. I was surprised to learn that Klingbeil requires blades to be mounted straight down the center or they refuse to fix any future problems with the skates (WTF? ) and I pronate quite a bit so my current mounting on my SP-Teris is way inside. He (Mike Cunningham in Waldorf, MD) told me to try it for a while and if there's really a problem, the mounting can always be changed.

Forgive me if I repeat things that have already been said- I didn't read the replies because I don't have time to right now.

I think you're already in way too advanced a blade for what you're doing. You don't have a scratch spin and you're on a blade designed for triple jumps. The Pattern 99 and Gold Seal both have an 8 ft radius...which is harder to spin in. People that are still learning singles and basic spins do much, much better in 7 ft radius blades, such as the MK Pro. Coronation Aces are also good (and I believe they're 7ft. radius as well). I don't know what on earth your coach could possibly thinking, to think that you need to be on the blades that will be most worn at the Olympics this month. Gold Seals are for advanced freestyle- so are Pattern 99's. Wait at LEAST until you have some doubles before getting either blade again, IMO. Too much blade is not only going to not help, it's going to hurt you. That radius is too flat for a beginner. And the top pick rake on the Gold Seal requires a much more skilled jumper than the Mk Pro, Coronation Ace, or even the Pattern 99. The way it's cut, you better be very good at picking and griping the ice, or you'll constantly miss.

It's also $400 extra that could go towards lesson and learning more about the sport, rather than on a super advanced blade you do not need. Please give the MK Pros or Coronation Aces a try! Good luck.

I skate in Coronation Comets (8.5' radius) and they are fine for me. I will say that spinning was a challenge but then so am I . Once everything I was doing wrong was fixed, spinning became easier. At my rink, the progression is: stock blade, Comets, Pattern 99 (or specialty like synchro or dance blades). I don't believe anyone (student) has anything beyond the Pattern 99. I'm not sure what all the coaches have.

That being said, I wonder if something with a smaller (8.0 or 7.5) would have been better for me and would be better in keeping me off my toepicks (especially when skating backwards). Sort of "compensating" for what my body is having difficulty in doing (it would be like getting a 7.0 rocker for spinning problems). Any comments or ideas on that?

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I don't really know what the answer is for you, but I can say that watching MOST adults who start skating as a adult, there is the problem with staying off the toepicks when going backwards. I think that there is a trick to keeping your weight on the ball of your foot and not leaning forward that is hard to learn. Once you get it you're fine -- I would think that the flatter blade (the Comets) would make it easier to stay off of the picks.

BUT there is one thing that I haven't seen mentioned on this board, and that is when you get new blades the arc from the rocker to the toepicks seems to be steeper -- whenever I've gotten new blades, whatever they are, there has been the tendency to fall forwards towards the picks. As the skates are sharpened repeatedly and the rocker gets flatter and flatter this arc tends to disappear and there is less tendency to fall forward.

Bending at the ankle and keeping the weight over the foot would probably help, too -- and like I mentioned in another thread, and I think these new-fangled, overly-stiff boots make it hard to really bend deeply at the ankle.

At least that has been my experience.

And as far as blades go, I agree with Stardust Skies -- the Coronation Ace or MK Pro is a perfectly great blade for most people doing freestyle and Moves -- I mean, that blade has been around FOREVER (well, at least since the '60s when I first started skating) and have been perfectly good for most skaters, IMHO.

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WTF indeed! I don't know where you heard that, but it is entirely UNTRUE. The last time I was at Klingbeil's, which was within the past three months, I clearly remember Don explaining to a customer that the blades are NOT mounted in line with the center seam, and that the mounting depends on each individual's stance. Since I was there, myself, to have my left blade moved a bit, there is also that as evidence.

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Well, they (Klingbeil) drew a mark at the top of each sole at the center to mark where the blades should be mounted (they told me they were going to do this). Today, when I showed Mike my current mounting to remind him about it, he showed me a letter/edict that he received from Klingbeil (I didn't see a date - it was a form letter that they apparently sent to all of their dealers/fitters/pro shops) that said they would void the warranty on any boot where the blades weren't mounted down the center. Mike said that is a disadvantage to using Klingbeils. He said that Klingbeil believes they correct any individual problems with pronation or other issues with each boot's design.

It's possible that this policy only applies to outside fitters and shops - a trust/confidence issue. I told my coach about it at the rink tonight and she said that they're probably worried someone would mount blades incorrectly and cause injury or boot breakdown and then Klingbeil would have to fix someone else's mistake.

My coach said to give it a couple of weeks with the new boots and if there is a problem, to then consider moving the mounting, which is basically what Mike said. My worry is that after working so hard to strike the correct edges on my Bronze moves, I'll get out of whack and skate on flats again. And I do want to re-test in the near future - it's only 11 months until next year's AN deadline - lol.

Well, the Klingbeil disclaimer does seem insane...however, it's also true what the person above me said that they probably believe every problem with pronation or sickling or whatever else can be fixed within the boot- and I think they're probably right in thinking this. If I remember correctly, Klingbeil does ONLY customs now- a good custom boot would correct problems with each person's foot, and thus there would be no need to put a blade not in the center. Actually, if you walked into a pro shop and told them you pronated or whatever, then they would mount the blades somewhere other than in the center, but if you ordered boots from Klingbeil, they would have noticed from your tracings that your arches were off (or flat, or whatever) and have made the bottom of the boot according to this, and then the fitter mounting the blade to compensate for your pronation when Klingbeil already designed the boot to compensate for it would be overload and probably would screw you up entirely. So, if the boot corrects your foot problem, you don't need your blade anywhere but in the middle. And since I believe all Klingbeils are now custom, they are expected to fix the problem. I have a *lot* of foot problems, but my boots take care of it, so my blades are dead center and I've never had my foot problems affect my edges in any way.

Just my theory on this.

As a side note, Skate@Delaware...I'm always baffled to hear of people skating on 8.5 ft radius blades...especially people not doing triples and such (there is a general concensus that the flatter the blade, the harder to skate in it is so it would be a real struggle for someone not incredibly skilled already, IMO). I can't imagine skating on an 8.5...I'm on an 8 and it's perfect. I guess if that's what you started out in then you don't know the difference, and maybe it is right for some people (maybe even for you) but if I were you I'd think about going down to at least an 8 ft rocker. Ideally, I'd think going down to an 8ft and then on the pair after than down to a 7ft (so it's not too big of a shock, although if you're feeling brave you could just get the 7ft and spend a week getting used to it, which probably isn't that bad). It really does make everything easier for you when you're with a 7ft...especially spins. Just something to think about!

If you're changing blade models or sizes, you should NEVER expect to be able to reuse holes. If you're replacing perfectly aligned blades with the same model/size you can reuse the holes. Just make sure they line up the same way -- manufacturers make subtle changes to blades from year to year.

Who made that statement to you? It's not true, in fact, Bill Klingbeil is the person who put on my blades perfectly with my old Klingbeil boots. Set slightly to the inside on my left foot, as needed. Perhaps with mail order blade mounting, that's their standard procedure. Mountings should really be done in person, IMHO.

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