Has anyone tried to "CoP" their program?

With talk of the new ISU Adult Championship in Oberstdorf (God, I love that name!), Loops and I have been imagining how our pair program would be judged, points wise, which led to the discussion of how adults would fare under CoP.

To wit: As currently written, the rules list specifically how many revolutions are required in spins.
Here's the document that lists the well balanced single program:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf
And pair program:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

These, to me, are clearly written for senior-level skaters. But are adults subject to the same standards?

What are they going to do with minimum revolution requirements for the adult competitions? In the standard criteria, a solo spin (regular OR flying) must have 6 revolutions to get the base value, and combo spins must have at least 5 on each foot. Even more, a pair spin has to have 8 revs! A spin with less than 3 revs is considered a "skating movement" and not a spin.

The technical specialist will have a field day invalidating many of the adults' spins.

I'm guessing that if this takes off, ISU will have to amend its rules for adults or at least put out an addendum?

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I've been wondering about the same sort of thing. I would think, for example, that at least some of the people in the bronze free skating event at the Oberstdorf competition would want to do a waltz-toe loop or other waltz-combination. But waltz jumps aren't listed as having any points associated with them. You'd think they'd have to have some sort of revised list, so the lower level adult skaters get some sort of points! At least the spin requirements in the competition announcement specify 3 revolutions in position. (Of course, I'm still expecting to get 0 points for my spins! And yes, I think I'm going to go to this competition!)

Pat

For the fun of it, I used a values sheet that some trial judges were using as a test of COP at non-quals and totalled up the points of all the elements in my repertoire. If I were to do every element to the best of my ability, my base tally came to 5.9. LOL

in Canada, COP will be implimented in 2006 for Adults (we don't have a seperate testing stream.)

I was wondering if, at the lower levels, the skater with the least amount of negative points would emerge the victor!

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The code files that you posted are clearly for jr. and sr. level skaters (it says so right in the document) and surely there are different rules that apply for adults, except maybe the Masters Senior level. There's got to be some different criteria for adults, maybe it's just not yet available on the ISU site.

But actually I was just reading the Sectionals announcement and entry form and USFS has spin revolution requirements already for adult programs, which I did not know! For Bronze and Silver, 3 revolutions are required, and for Gold, 4. If it's a combo spin the revolutions are per foot. This is from the "well-balanced program" rules.

I've not seen any ISU adult criteria, and since the Oberstdorf competition form is already out and the age requirements are listed as of July 2004, I didn't think ISU could just whip out an adult code. The current code must therefore apply, right? The Oberstdorf announcement (page 9) says it is following rules 352 and 353, which are the same rules governing the senior-level freeskating events. (Just as USFSA can change adult rules now, they cannot go into effect till next September.) I cannot wait to see how CoP will be used on the adults.

The competition announcement does list the specific requirements for spins and such under each level, so I guess that will override the official ISU rules. That is, a silver-level skater won't be penalized for not doing 6 revolutions in a spin since this comp lists that only 3 revs are the required minimum.

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I am trying to "CoP" my program for Oberstdorf (I love using "CoP" as a verb! LOL!), and it is proving to be really fun and interesting. But one thing I am noticing from watching the Grand Prix on TV, and I posted this on another board, is that CoP is making a lot of things predictable. I only watched Trophee Eric Bompard Cachemire, but I noticed that every skater switched to the outside edge on their camel, and every skater grabbed their blade in a layback, all in an effort to get more difficulty points. But it got to the point where I was screaming at the TV, "Enough already with the camel change of edge! Sheesh!" It became boring, and after a while I *expected* the change of edge. So whereas something like that used to be special when you saw it, now it's run of the mill. And lame, frankly! Some "pure skating" is getting lost.

For instance, Angela Nikodinov has that gorgeous layback. That perfect position is super hard, yet because there's no variation I would guess it's only a Level 1. To me, that's not right. At the same time, though, I have to think the system balances itself out, because while it might be a Level 1, I would hope she would get at least a +2 or +3 Grade of Execution, and that might win out over doing something "harder" (leg grab) but not as well.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Actually, I don't think the scores can go negative, but I had to laugh at:

I haven't tried this yet, but I'll have to some time just to get a good laugh! But perhaps there will be a scale for us lower level skaters.

On a side note, my coach didn't laugh when I told him about the competition, but just asked me if I was going to go! Then went back to planning for the New Year's Invitational.

Pat

Oh my God, I TOTALLY agree. Enough already with the change of edge--though, of course, it is really hard to do.

And CoP as a verb rocks!

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

So. . . If we feel that we haven't been judged fairly, who are the CoP cops that we could cop a plea to? Would that be the technical specialists or the referees?

I skate for applause,
Ill go and if I came dead last it won't matter so long as people like my number. Anyway, the view from the glass wall in that rink is well worth the trip alone.

" The greatest risk inn life is not taking one"

here in mexico city they used the COp for the first ever time in mexico like 2 months ago, i didn't go to that competition but i saw some of the results sheets and there were scores for free programs as low as 3.60(total! ) for the lower classes hehe
and it is true the waltz jump doesn't get any points yet here in mexico it is like the compulsury jump for the lowest class so they'll have to do something about that

I agree that the skating is getting lost. One event where you can still see beautiful skating is the pro-am, which was out of Florida - an event that attracted many coaches and former competitors that were not olympians. The skaters are older and experienced. The tripples are there, but the emphasis was on flow and edges.

For me, I'll pretty much do what I've done - skate for me. The rules are getting obnoxious. Is it the idea to quantify skating so much that it's more "acceptable" or has more "justification" as a sport? Or make it as objective and directed as possible so that it's idiot proof and involves no actual "judging"? An element of skating is subjective. I agree that the judging needed to be examined to eliminate the "French Judge" events, but not at the expense of the essence of the sport.

This is where you simply "forget" to tell people that you're using CoP and let them assume it's the old 6.0 system. A 5.9 sounds great!!!

This is the funniest thing I've heard in a long time! Great idea!

As for me, I'm aspiring to a 5.6... that is, if I don't get negative scores on the program component marks...

Pat

I would rather see a skater do a great single jump with speed , flow and ease than see an attempted tripple with a may-be Ill make it approach.
A number should be skated to entertain and the best way to do that is to stay on ones feet. Im not saying we should all just be happy with what we can do, we should all keep working on the things we want so much to accomplish. But I do think that when it comes down to the event we must not forget that the overall performance is what judges are looking for today, not just the jumps or spins, We as adults must entertain regardless of how we are judged. I think judges want to have as much fun as we do.

" The greatest risk in life is not taking one".

And, indeed, under the new system that may very well be what you do see. I know triple jumps attract a greater base score - but we may well see skaters "playing safe" and doing doubles or singles to get higher marks. I know ice-dancing friends have told me that they were "bleeding marks" on level 4 lifts, and they were told to lower the level of their lifts to get higher marks.

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