Hi, everyone--
I just started working on the camel spin a few weeks ago and am looking for some tips. (I searched past threads in this forum, but it's an element mentioned so often it was hard to find anything specifically on HOW to do it).

I am having trouble hooking it--am I supposed to wait a little longer on the FO edge before hooking it, or is it about the same as a scratch spin in terms of the amount of time on the edge?

Also, I seem to be not rising up from the bent knee with my weight in the right place. I start going in a really wide back inside arc rather than truly spinning on or around a spot.

Also, I am a little confused about the placement of the FO edge before the spin. I think I posted a few months ago asking whether the FO edge is within the same circle as the BI edge (I think I got a unanimous yes on that), but I was reading in Nancy Kerrigan's book that the entrance edge makes a separate lobe. I can't recall her exact words, but it seemed to make sense to me because on TV, the BI to FO entrance looks like an S--the edges SEEM to be placed on two separate, adjoining circles. Or is this just how it looks? (One steps within the circle but then the FO edge eventually carries one onto the new lobe, looking like an S?)

Thanks for your help!

Wait a little longer on the forward outside edge than on the scratch spin. Be sure to snap your leg around quickly. To gain speed and have a good position, KEEP YOUR LEG STRAIGHT BEHIND YOU! I was having trouble on mine, but when my coach told me to keep my leg behind, I did the spin almost perfectly. It really helps!
Good luck on your spin!

One thing that really helped me was to make sure my right arm (CCW) was held strongly back. I kept falling out of the spin immediately after the entrance.

Not to be conceited, but I have a good video of me doing a camel-sit-change (one of the benefits of having a video camera - proof I CAN do these moves ). I think sometimes it's helpful seeing non-elite skaters because usually elite skaters have such perfect technique it's hard to break it down. PM me if you're interested and I can put it on my website to download.

To stop yourself dropping onto the inside edge make sure you keep your free leg right behind you - right from the moment you step onto the FO edge. When I say behind I mean waaay behind. Do not let it even think about coming to the side at any point. Secondly make sure you keep your free hip up when you get into the spin - your hips should be open.

With regards to not being able to hook the spin, you may have your weight in the wrong place in the approach. You should lead into the camel spin with your hip and with your head up. So many skaters try to go into a camel with their head down and their chest practically on their knee, and it sorta works, but not that well. Leading with the hip with a slightly more upright carriage is what really does the trick. You don't spin around your head so don't lead into the spin with it. (My coach calls leading with the head "bulling" a move and you know you have done it when look around to see her making little horns with her fingers

(And for all you skaters who are still using the chest-on-knee approach - give this technique a go - it was an absolute revelation to me ).

Vesperholly's idea of looking at non-expert movies is a good one. I think I have a few on my website which should be accessible from my username on this site. They range from bad to good (and one has a long lead up as I had to set up the camera myself - but it is the best of the spins, just a longer download) Hopefully the site is still working...

John

A nice, controlled arch in the back helps too, steadying you to keep the leg directly behind you as you spin. I tend to think of bananas when I do this, in order to get and keep the arch. One coach suggested this to me and the result was a faster, steadier, longer spin.

The camel spin is my favorite.

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Okay, I posted some videos, mostly spins. They are here:

http://www.vesperis.com/video/

That's somewhat true once you are in the spinning position, though you don't want to get your arms TOO far back. But before you hook the spin, when you are on the FO edge, I find that it's better to keep my right arm more in front of my body, and then when I hit the position I snap it back, which helps the hook and speed maintenance.

Videos are also helpful so that you can see what you are doing wrong. Sometimes my coach tells me (especially on the layback) how my position is wrong, but I can't really feel it, I need to see it.

Thanks, vesperholly! I was finally able to look at the videos. They were very helpful. I can't wait to go back to the rink and practice spinning.

I noticed that some of the spin entrances are BO-FO (mohawk) instead of the traditional (vanilla) BI-FO entrance. Do you do this to get a deeper FO edge before the hook?

Thanks again, and thanks to everyone else who posted suggestions!

Well, sometimes when I am lazy and do crossovers into a spin, I end up turning the BI to a BO edge. I think this is a byproduct of practicing spins from a RFI 3-turn entry. I do get a better push if it's a BO, but more because I am already in an open position going into the spin instead of closed like BI. BI is harder.

I keep the left arm (assuming you spin ccw) open to the side and "follow" it into the spin, staying down on my knee and keeping the free leg straight behind. I've always found that a sharp 3-turn entrance is easier for me with a camel.

I was watching camel spins at a practice last week and I noticed a lot of the kids swinging both their arms in front, then trying to "snap" them into position. I don't think it was helping any of them and it really didn't look good. But, not my students so MYOB. If anyone uses this technique, no offense intended. I'm sure you've mastered it, unlike these kids.