I'm in agreement with FrankR, InsideAxel, Nova, and Jazzpants. There's too many what-if scenarios for me to feel comfortable with the qualify-at-Nationals idea. Qualifying out of age group events just sounds like it won't work for the reasons stated above.

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Whatever!

I received an invite a couple of years ago because I medaled in a local event in a group of four. It's pretty simple to get an invite - it's not like there are local competitions with groups of 11 adults trying to be in the top four at a single event like AN.

I would definitely consider doing a solo dance. I did interp at AN once - it was interesting. While I would never rule out doing it again, it's not a priority for me. IMO, and I'm going to offend a lot of people here, it's not, ummm, serious skating - and serious skating is what should be at AN. However, it's not going to kill me if it remains either, because I just don't care that much about interp.


ITA with you. While I like sectionals, it wouldn't kill me if they were eliminated. However, it sounds like folks are putting the cart before the horse a bit here. It would be nice if the details were hammered out before it goes any further.

One more thing -- it we were to go to a qualifying at AN, how about a short program with required elements for qualifying, then the regular "long" program for the final round? Less time, and you level the playing field with the required elements - and keep the required elements to the test requirements so as to not leave anyone out. (It could be modified for V's that cannot do axels and multi-revolutional jumps.)

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

Well, I'm one of the offended.

Would you please define "serious"?

Maybe she meant as opposed to competing with a regular program. Interp is more for "fun", IMO.

The short and long programs to qualify at ANs are an interesting idea, but I know I'd HATE that. One program is enough for me! Plus, training two programs would mean more practice time, which a lot of adults have limited time as it is.

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

That's mostly what I mean. Interp to me is show skating - it's what people do in ice shows and the like. It's entertainment, not necessarily athleticism. Kind of like Stars on Ice or the old professional worlds versus the US Nationals or standard worlds. I shudder at all the photos of adults on the USFS website in animal costumes or other over the top weird garb ( which doesn't translate well as something legitimate in photos) when there are so many of us who work so hard to be taken seriously in our sport. However, as I said before, it is no skin off my nose if interp remains a part of AN. It's just a suggestion of fluff to get rid of if we need more time for traditional events.

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

Don't forget that for some people, the Interpretive events are really the only option. For example, there are some masters level skaters who, due to some physical limitation, can no longer do doubles or skate a longer program. I know several serious Gold/Masters skaters who were in that predicament this year, and if they hadn't been able to compete in Interpretive, I know they would have been really depressed about it. And by the way, they kicked butt in interpretive!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

And here I was offended because I thought what you said was that solo dance wasn't real skating!!!

One thing is certain: people who compete take it pretty seriously!!

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Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

That's absolutely right. And although the technical scores are assumed to be much more standardized, there can still be a major difference in technical scores depending on who the technical controller is. For example, the TC for the Gold Ladies III QR's was generous with counting spiral sequence features and giving the levels. She also downgraded only a few of the toeloops in the competition. But we had a different TC for Gold III FR and Championship Gold (the same person for both of these later events) and she downgraded twice as many toeloops for the same skaters. She also gave a Level 1 to a spiral sequence that had gotten a Level 3 under the QR TS (even though it was by the same skater and executed with the same quality). When you add up all of those little differences it can amount to some significant points.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Maybe this has been suggested before???
Make interps qualify at sectionals. This would hopefully boost attendance at sectionals AND cut down on the icetime required for so many interps at AN. The saved time could go to solo dance.

...and two programs would mean more costs in terms of cutting music (for those who don't cut their own), choreography, and clothing...

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It just occured to me withi this statement that the dancers have to do two compulsory dances AND and OD (granted they don't have to cut the music for the compulsories, but still there are getting those dances perfect and choreographing beginnings and endings to them...) and most have different costumes for each compulsory and then another costume for the OD, and this is for two people.

In the Centennial, silver and Bronze events, I believe they have to do 4 compulsories, often with a costume change...

Granted, the Pre-Gold, Gold and Championship groups don't have a FD like the standard skaters do, but they still have more skating and more costumes than the singles skaters. Why is that? I wonder if this is parat of the reason we see less dancers and also see the need for solo dance. I can't imagine travelling all that way and spending all of that money just to do one dance. How about Pr0Am? That would be fun...

I think the singles skaters should have to do both a short and a long, just like in standard Nationals.

I notice there are no dance teams on this board. I wonder why (except for you and Robert, Anabel) -- what board are they frequenting - (or are they out there trying to earn enough money to do all of their stuff???

More late-evening ramblings from this frustrated ice-dancer...

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Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

I would like to see Championship Bronze and Silver, but I'd prefer to keep Sectionals if it came down to an either/or. Even though the non-Championships are technically part of the open competition, I think the prestige of being linked with a USFSA competition draws more people. I know I certainly prefer to compete at an open event held in conjunction with Sectionals than at XYZ Adult Open. Plus, it draws in adult skaters in No Test and Pre-Bronze, and I personally get really inspired seeing all the awesome skaters in the Championship round.

I'm not a big fan of qualifying at ANs for non-Championship rounds (that is what we're talking about, yes?).

I don't have much opinions on it all, seeing as I'm the only competitive adult skater in my club and there are very few of us in my neck of the woods.

Most of the ice dancers are on the Ice Dancers Online Yahoo Groups.

I've competed at Adult Nationals 3 times in dance and once in FS. Never competed in Interp. I would put Solo Dance and Interp in pretty much the same category and do not necessarily favor one over the other. However, I would favor both of these over the 20 minute warm-up. Again, it all comes down to what is the goal of Adult Nationals??? If it is to mimic the standard track, then sure, get rid of Interp and stick with the 20 minute warm-up and then we can shorten it to 3 days. If it's to be as inclusive as possible, then add solo dance, pre-bronze FS, keep interp and eliminate the 20 minute warm-up. Tough decisions...

I'm also for eliminating the qualifying events at Sectionals, and just have it all at Nationals (as described by manleywoman and daisies). Personally, I would rather do it all at one competition than to have to travel to two separate competitions to compete in Championship. Selfishly speaking, I'm on a synchro team and already travel 2 or 3 times per year with the team to compete -- mostly Dec thru Feb.

In 2004, my dance partner and I entered Championship Dance. But when we found out there were 5 teams at Midwesterns, and knowing that we would likely be the 5th place team, we withdrew. It was a real bummer because it was the only time when there were actually more than 4 Championship dance teams at any Sectionals. Since there's no fill-up rule, we would not qualify as the 5th place team even though the other sections had fewer than 4 teams. We figured we'd just save the time and money....

ETA I'm also for Championship rounds for Bronze & Silver. Wow... so many issues!!!

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Denver Synchronicity

Would the Open events for Gold and Masters also be the qualifiers for their Championship rounds? Or would there still be Gold I, Gold II, Gold III, Gold IV AND Championship Gold?

And one of the reasons I favor keeping Sectionals is because if there's one BIG event in each section, more skaters are likely to put that on their calendar and attend, than if there are a couple of adult open events. Maybe it's a prestige thing, i.e. it sounds better to be the Eastern Adult Sectional Bronze II Champion than the Peach Classic Bronze II Champion.. which sounds like just another competition (which we all know it is most definitely NOT "just another competition"!). And I like the idea of having a place for the No-Test and Pre-Bronze skaters to see the really great adult skaters compete in Gold and Masters Championships.. so they can be inspired and aspire to that level of greatness.

By the way, Interp is not JUST people in funny costumes. It is also an outlet for people who for one reason or another cannot do some of the more technical elements required in or to be competitive in the technical events.

Take a look at the Artistic/Dramatic events if you don't want to see Charlie Brown and his(her) kite (which was a wonderfully entertaining program) or someone dressed up as an animal.

Daisies' "Man of La Mancha" program from a couple years ago was SERIOUS skating, even though there were no double jumps. Her skates were so quiet you could not hear them even if you were standing right by the boards! If that's not serious skating, I don't know what is. (When I grow up -- not that THAT is ever likely to happen -- I want to skate just like Daisies -- and that's not likely to ever happen either.)

By the way, many of us have discussed how judges mark adult during tests, whether adult or standard track tests. Do you think it would be possible to change the judges requirements to have trial judge at least one or two adult tests for them to achieve the next appointment?

I know it would be impossible to require all the judges currently at the top levels go back and actually see adults testing. But do you think it would be helpful to have judges see adults actually testing? Singles/Pairs judges are required to trial judge pairs to achieve an appointment, and in many cases those tests are "hard to find", but very necessary, since the judges are likely to be called on to judge pairs at SOME point in their judging careers. Chances are also pretty good judges will also be called on to judge adults sometime, somewhere.. but they may never have actually seen an adult test before they are called on to make a binding decision that affects the skater who is testing.

True.

..........................................

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

"I did interp at AN once - it was interesting. While I would never rule out doing it again, it's not a priority for me. IMO, and I'm going to offend a lot of people here, it's not, ummm, serious skating - and serious skating is what should be at AN. However, it's not going to kill me if it remains either, because I just don't care that much about interp."


I've never had an interpretive program that was "fluff" or "non serious" skating. It may be such for some skaters, and I'm not a fan of animals, food products, or costume contests on the ice, but interpretive offers what fs does not - an opportunity to SKATE! With the endless progression of rules and guidelines and structure of the fs programs, there's little room for skating. The fs programs are all beginning to look alike. I've competed in fs, pairs and interp and medaled in all events, and a quality interpretive is much more of a challenge. I would be for qualifying interp. What I liked about the initial and final rounds of interp was that at the final rounds you could skate and compete with the quality interp programs and skaters.

I've always been for restricting adult interp to silver and gold levels and have the master's interp for master's skaters.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

YOU try doing jumps and spins and spirals with your arms tied around you in a straightjacket!

Whoever said Interp is a cash cow was right. No final rounds, usually an "add-on" event for skaters already there, doesn't require the same number of high level judges, etc. Granted, there are some LAME interps out there, but there are also some very creative and athletic interp programs out there.

Just going to play Devil's advocate here...

It seems there are quite a few that would ALMOST favor a 100% Championship Adult Nats and leave the open events for sectionals. IMHO, I would not like this but when you start talking about quals for interp and a silver/bronze championship.....would it not be easier to make AN 100% championship.....

I would be bummed about it because I would probably not be able to Qual but it would be something to shoot for!

just a thought

As far as interp.....I dont mind it.....I am not a big fan of Drag on Ice.....There are other events in the world for Drag on Ice. I got a good chuckle out of some of the Drag interps but IMHO I think it cheapens our event. JUST my opinion!

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Why are you skating so slowly? Get out of my way!

If you skate faster, it makes everything look better!

For me I dont know what the big deal about dressing up like a frog or a cat and prancing around for 1 minute and 40 seconds and it costs and additional $80. I dont see any challenge in that sorry
{I dont mind the artistic/dramatic portion though}

I could live without it. It makes adult nationals much more prestige when you dont see bulls and cattles running around. It would really make good use of AN for longer warmup times and practices.

Like other said, if there was a showcase competition, why dont they add a day or so for adults since its a "cashcow"

But whatever happens happens, at least somebody voiced out their opinion.

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Tim David's Website

Dont be hard on yourself, its anybody's game really. The results are always unpredictable. Just as long as you have a lutz and a flying spin at silver (for men at least), youre in good standings, of course an axel does help too.

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Tim David's Website

I vote Skaternum's "Crazy" the best Interp I've ever seen - you need to yootoob it.
Lyle

In the UK, we do have solo dance at our Adult Championships. The solo dancers, like the couples, have to do two compulsory dances and a free dance. At least, that has been the case so far - the requirements did vary the first two years, but stabilised. They are now threatening to make the compulsory and free dances two separate championships, as though it were just a regular Open, which most people I know are furious about.

At the Adult Championships there is just one "Showcase" class for skaters of all ages and abilities, which isn't usually that well patronised.

As we do at the Mountain Cup. I usually wear the same dress for each round, but change between rounds. There usually isn't time to change between dances unless you have a big class. Sometimes in the UK they schedule things so everybody does their first dance, going from Elementary to Masters, then everybody does their second, and so on, giving people time to change if they wish. Not everybody does wish - some people just have one "dance frock" that does for everything; others start off that way and gradually amass a collection.

I think many ice dancers are on the Yahoo group, which I was on for a bit but it was too US-oriented for my needs.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Try b/c you're having FUN!?!?! Haven't you ever been comedic??? You're missing out if you haven't!!! There's a certain freedom that comes from being able to say "Hey, I look goofy... and I don't give a damn about it!"

Seriously, skating in big bulky costumes and doing jumps and spins with it is a challenge in adjusting your center of mass/gravity. Try practicing in a fat suit in private and you'll see what I mean.

Three words: "Jay" and "Michelle Kwan." Still my All Time Favorite Interp EVER, hands down and I'm not just saying it b/c Jay's my coach either. I know plenty of people that still remember the number and asks me if "Michelle Kwan" is going to make a comeback.

I humbly disagree with you on this. Bronze skaters have tested up enough and earned their full right to go to AN and do Interp along with the other level skaters. Then again, I've always been a firm believer in giving lower level skaters the exposure (or at least a "taste") of what the upper level skaters are doing so that they know what they're in for when they get to play with the "big girls" in Champ Adult Gold and Champ Masters. Besides, some of the Bronze level skaters on interps are just as good as the Silver skaters. And there are some really good Bronze numbers out there in both the comedic and A/D categories out there.

That was my point about keeping Sectionals. We like being able to watch the Gold and Masters skaters in action striving to qualify for Nationals, knowing that someday we CAN strive for that greatness. I am "content" and "happy" at being able to qualify for AN. My next big goal is to someday compete at Champ Adult Gold and qualify for Nationals and skate as well as doubletoe or FrankR here!!!

Yup! Agreed. And one of my memorable ones in the "lights" is someone doing a Michael Jackson interp. I like THAT number!!!

We ALL want to skate like daisies when we grow up, Thin-Ice! We all do!!!

That's one of my other fave interp numbers based on the pictures and the rave reviews I've read here. Yes, skaternum... you definitely need to put it on YouTube so I can see what the hoopla's about for myself.

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Hi,
You're right jazz, some of the bronze skaters are as good as the silver skaters. What we were hoping when this was proposed years ago was that it would cut out the majority of the non-skating freak show programs and encourage people to move up. At that time there was an abundance of bronze skaters. Also, another reason for the proposed change was to facilitate gold skaters not having to compete with master's skaters.

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