Has anybody had a chance to look at the Requests for Action for USFSA Governing Council? There are several that have a big impact on adults, and I was curious what your thoughts are.

Go here and open the RFAs. Items 301, 302 and 321 are particularly interesting.

301 changes the Adult Bronze WBP to match the test requirement for spins. Seems like the right thing to do. Lots of Bronze skaters got caught in that little mess from last year. This would correct the mistake.

302 adds championship singles events for silver and bronze. I think this is going to be a bit contentious on the floor of GC. Personally, I don't think we should have "championship" events for these levels. I think these levels are just too low to justify calling something a championship. And before anybody tries to crucify me for snobbery, let me state that I'm a silver skater, myself. Also, I think having championship events would just exacerbate sandbagging at these levels.

321 establishes a solo test track for adult and masters skaters. It's not clear from the wording whether this would be mandatory, as it is for the standard track, or whether it's optional. Anybody here know?

So what do you guys think?

I for one, would appreciate a solo dance track for adult and masters. There are no partners around here, I enjoy dance, I like to test to give me a goal to work for but I took that damn dutch waltz four times before I could pass it solo and I'm a much better skater now than when I passed it with a partner easily years ago. So I'm one that appreciates a little "dumbing down". There's challenging and then there's so impossible that you feel like quitting.

j

I was kind of hoping to only have to do two spins in my bronze program next year. I don't like spinning.

As for bronze and silver champ rounds, they would still have the open ones right? I'm pretty neutral. It's not a bad idea IMO, but I don't care either way.

Well when I first heard of the Championship events for Bronze and Silver I was rather skeptical. As a silver skater I thought, where is the incentive to move up to gold if you have championship at silver. Then as I was talking to others , I began to see another point... it will build the draw for the Adult sectional competitions and maybe give the lower levels something else to consider working towards.

If it passes it will be VERY tough to qualify for.....even for the men like me!

I would consider going to sectional for a champioship qual. There is no reason for me(as a Silver man) to go to sectionals unless the competition was held locally.

Yes this does put Financial and time considerations to a test......but why not give it a try and see what happens.....if it does not work you can always go back to the way things are now.

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Why are you skating so slowly? Get out of my way!

If you skate faster, it makes everything look better!

Here's my opinion gang, take it or leave it.
For 301, all I could say to that was "THANK GOD!" I felt last year's proposal made no sense whatsoever in the fact that I will have to do three spins in my Bronze test program next month, yet for my competitive program I could only do two- secondary coach would have had a great time changing my choreography on that one.

302- This is how I read it and I know someone out there is going to call me on this but anyway:
The bottom line is that very few Bronze and Silver skaters attend Sectionals unless they either live right where it's going to be held or have $$$ to burn. Therefore, this is a idea to get all of us who would otherwise stay at home and save money and get more training time for AN to go to Sectionals. Also, I think that this could be a sad introduction to a issue that has been brought up several times before and dropped like a hot potato- the concept to make AN all-qualifying.
Lastly,I agree with skaternum in that this idea may promote sandbagging.
There's my few cents.

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

No, the idea wasn't to make AN all qualifying, the open events would still occur. It's in addition to the open events. I'm against it for a few reasons, a lot of which I brought up in the Solo Dance petition thread. ANs is already about a week long and adding those events would add on another day, more expenses for LOC and skaters alike, you'd HAVE to attend Sectionals and Nationals (I know many who do one or the other), I also think it promotes sandbagging, plus I really do think Gold and Masters are where Championship belongs. I'm a silver skater and I know I'd be a lot more proud to get a Champ Gold title than a Champ Silver title. JMHO.

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

This is a totally separate testing track than the partnered track. A solo test track already exists (the skater *only* solos the dance--never partners at all. This was mainly done for the areas where there simply is no one to partner people through tests)--but it doesn't have an 'adult' version. So right now, adults testing on the solo track have to get the same passing average as the kids. The new rule would add an adult version, which would be the same dances, just a lower passing average.

On the partnered test track, you are right, adults never have to solo the dance. The standard skaters do, once they hit the silver level--and then they skate the dance both partnered and solo, one right after the other.

So, if I want to start testing dance as an adult, I can start taking just solo tests or I can take just partnered tests. Right?

Once this new rule passes (and I imagine it will), yes. The one catch is, if you take some tests on the solo track & then decide to take some partnered tests, you have to start over again at the beginning, no matter how high you test solo.

OH LORD. I just thought of something...if I want to switch to test masters - WOULD I HAVE TO TAKE THAT FRIGGIN DUTCH WALTZ again????


Hopefully not - I think that masters doesn't start in partner until pre bronze...hopefully it would be the same in solo track. I honestly don't think I could do that again and what if I failed????

j

Throwing my 2 cents in since I'm going to Governing Council (yahoo! ): I agree that having Championship levels for bronze and silver is not a good idea. I'm an official silver level skater, and I wouldn't want to incur the costs of going to a sectional competition to qualify. Going to and competing in nationals is expensive enough. Having one competition for all skaters in the same level at bronze and silver makes more sense. If we had separate championships and open events, I can see a scenario where the top open skaters actually give better performances than the championship winners. I'm a pretty die-hard adult skater, but I don't like the hassle of traveling and competing somewhere far from home enough to also go to a qualifying competition. I only did sectionals last year because it was a 35-min. drive from home.

I don't see any proposed changes to the Novice MIF test and above - there's talk of twizzles being added to the Novice, Junior and Senior MIF tests??

Or did I just miss it in the RFA?

-_Sara

Well that would pretty much ensure us old beginners from north of the border never have a chance to join you at U.S. Adults!

U.S.F.S.A. already require a jump sequence in Bronze whereas ISU doesn't (ISU set maximums but not minimums.)

Having started at 56 (14 months ago) I expect my rising skills to hit the physical limitation ceiling sometime in the next 15 years and that ceiling MAY include some single jumps but wont likely include doubles.

Ya'll have a REAL sandbagging problem down there or just people suspecting there is sandbagging? Can't really say I have seen any sign of it here. Some people are comfortable testing when they think they meet the minimum passing standard while others wait until they are more confident of a clean pass.

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

Championship rounds are overkill. Qualify at nats - skate at nats.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

I think with most adults, the question of sandbagging is really much more complicated than at first glance. I've learned to hold judgment because adults are so different on what they can learn ...what they can do. I have confidence I'll be able to pass bronze moves but I seriously question whether I will ever be able to do a real sit spin so I may never move up to bronze freestyle.

I like to compete and hopefully someday (trust me, nobody's gonna accuse me of sandbagging anytime soon) I'll be REALLY REALLY good at pre-bronze even without a sitspin and somebody may accuse me of sandbagging but they just don't know the whole story.

I don't worry about it - I enjoy competing for a lot of other reasons than getting medals and if someone really is holding back to collect medals, they are just hurting themselves and their progress more than they are taking any skin off my nose. Sandbagging is it's own punishment as far as I'm concerned.

j

The Report from the Singles Committee states

"Continuation of the development of new moves in the field that was initiated in 2005 - 2006 years. During this season we have established a subcommittee under the direction of Janet Champion to review twelve new moves in the field that cover changes in our skaters needs with the advent of IJS. Currently the moves are being evaluated by the subcommittee.

The following steps are planned in the next 12 months
- Subcommittee will recommend which new moves will be added and which
existing moves will be altered or removed. Goal of maintaining existing test
length times to minimize impact on member club test sessions is a primary
focus of this effort.
- Recommendations will be forwarded to entire committee for review and
discussion.
- RFAs will be proposed at 2008 Governing Council with expected
implementation, if accepted, in September 2008."

This is on page 73.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

I agree entirely, and I'm also a silver skater. Isn't having a QR and FR at nationals enough at the Bronze and Silver levels? Besides, for a lot of people (myself included), AN is our "big travel competition" at this point in my "skating career"...financially speaking.

Qualifying for the Gold-level championships is a lofty goal, a motivator, and an aspiration! What's the point behind having it at the levels below Gold?

That's my humble opinion on that matter.

FINALLY!!! And it's a good thing that Jay never got around to finishing my choreography for my FS program. We're in no mood to rechoreographing the whole thing if we did it according to the current WBP requirements and then having to change it to suit the new one if it does pass.

(Besides that, I prefer to spin than jump! Easier on the lower back...and I SUCK at jumps!!! LOL!!! )

Yeah, I'm not too happy about this one either. If anything, there's already enough sandbagging AS IS w/o having the Championship events there. (Of course, to be fair, I should also add that the sandbagging may NOT be intentional. Some people are really good with their FS program but are having major pains with passing the moves tests for the next level up.)

I'm not for anything mandatory... but it would be nice to have that track as an option. I wonder if this is a step towards having Solo Dances events at AN. Hmmmm?

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I don't really see how that's sandbagging? If you can't pass the next Moves test, then you aren't at that level. That doesn't mean that you can't be really good at the level you have attained, does it?

Well, that's the point! jskater49 made a comment about her reserving judgement of the skater that is perceived (keyword) to be a sandbagger. You don't know their circumstances unless you actually talk to the skater themselves. One may be stuck at moves hell. Another skater is stuck with camel spin or axel hell. Or it may be a matter of logistics and just getting enough time to prepare for that next moves test and they're too busy preparing for their AN debut to work on those moves for the test. You never know! And you always have to be accepting of the fact that you are always gonna have sandbaggers. Doesn't mean that you don't strive to "keep up with them." But just that you have to be mindful of that if you end up getting knocked off the medal stands (or in my case, likeliness of ending up in the cellar in the standings. )

But it doesn't mean that I would want to encourage the behavior either (and from what I hear already, there are some skaters this year at AN that were sandbagging for sure!) And that's why I don't support the Championship events for Bronze and Silver.

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Realistically speaking, Championship Bronze events would probably be just for the younger levels of skaters anyway. And those are the skaters who have the best chance of actually making it all the way up to Gold, where they can reap the rewards of having a Championship event. As a "forever Bronze" skater, I think it would be best to leave the Championship events the way they are.

On a slightly different note, if Sectionals are eliminated, as has been discussed, many of our newest skaters will never know the joy of skating at a major adult event. Adult Sectionals are one of the best ways for No-Test, Pre-Bronze and new Bronze skaters to find out what adult skating is all about. If they can't compete, chances are they will not travel to AN, so Adult Sectionals is a place for them to compete or come see how we as a group of Adult Skaters are.. and that's easier to do if it's closer to home (as Sectionals are) for those who haven't completely "caught" the Adult skating bug yet.

Ditto that. I had never been to an all adult event - just tag along to my daughter's competitions. There are no close adult events so I think it would be a shame if there were no sectionals.

j

I could be swayed either way on the issue of championship silver and bronze.

If you did get rid of sectionals all together...I think that there are enough competitions that offer Adult events for just about everyone out there.

Sectionals I think will be needed for the gold/master ladies...there are just too many and it would be too difficult for them to have a qual round at Nats


Dunno it is getting so confusing!

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Why are you skating so slowly? Get out of my way!

If you skate faster, it makes everything look better!

That's true, especially in Gold. We had a QR in Gold III this year (it's happened twice now in the five years since I've been competing). So in a case like this, would we have to skate a QR to wheedle down the numbers for a sort of FR to determine who would skate in the championship round?

What I'd actually like to see, though, is an age break in championship events. Something like 21-40 and 41+. We probably have enough skaters at Gold and masters to support it, and it brings more opportunities for those of us old folks who aren't getting any younger!

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

yes, but look at the guys, Gold and Masters. They have to spend hundreds of dollars to fly somewhere just to show up and qualify. Is that fair?