I can tell you a bit of my own story----to illustrate what everyone has been saying about different coaches having different approaches, and how adult skaters are....

I started skating as an adult, & am still training w/ my own coach. I skate at least 5 days a week (I'm an ice dancer), am testing the standard track in dance & moves, & I expect my coach to treat me like one of the kids--push me hard & don't let me slide by on anything.

That's my personality.

I have some of my own students, one of whom is another adult skater. She started working with me 3 years ago, stuck on one of her bronze dances. And today......she is still on that bronze dance. All the time she was saying she really wanted to get this dance ready to test, how she was so sick of it---and yet was skating, at best, twice a week (more often once a week). She would take a month off at a time, and often skips lessons. I finally came to realize, that skating just is not one of her priorities in life.

And you know what? That's fine. She should skate when she wants to skate. However, I did need to clarify to her that the dance was simply never going to be ready to test without a much larger commitment. She agreed, & we adjusted her lessons so that skating would be fun for her & not boring, as it had become since pretty much all we did was work on the dance. So we're doing other things now, & I think she's happier. I know I am! I finally realized not everyone approaches their skating the way I do, & that adults will make their own decisions about their priorities. I had to readjust my thinking to be able to keep coaching her--or it would have driven me crazy!

All this rambling to say that when you are a coach, you will either have to adjust sometimes for a (adult) student, or choose not to teach them. To be truthful, I was on the verge of telling her I couldn't coach her anymore, but I decided to give this new tact a try. I guess it remains to be seen if it works for me long term!

I think it's important for a coach to outline to their students what their expectations are, & the student can decide if they can work within that framework. For example, I know one coach who requires his students to skate at least one hour a week outside of lessons, and do at least 2 competitions a year.

This is something I'm still learning about & deciding about as I continue my own coaching.

I feel the same way, and my coach treats me that way. But I'm still such a slow learner, that it's frustrating both of us!

It may well seem that way, but when I was 15 and a roller dancer I cracked my wrist doing shoot the duck (well, OK, it was a shoot the duck war on a public session, but still just a simple shoot the duck), and when I was 54 I broke my wrist doing the extremely simple Pre-Pre BI edge pattern, which I was doing rather well at the time. I still feel a stab of fear on that pattern but not on the Juv B cross strokes, which I do with power, flow, deep edges, and tremendous enjoyment. If I were not allowed to work on moves beyond the level I am currently capable of mastering (as in prelim alt threes), I would have no fun at all.

I coach basic skills, and for kids the keyword is "fun", but I have found that for adults also, there must be an element of fun, or enjoyment, if you will, or there is little to keep them interested.

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Just how bored do you want adult skaters to be while they take twice (or 3 times) as long to master those basics?

I just started skating a year ago -- passed the Preliminary dance test (Canada -- all 3 dances in one session). I'm still working on figuring out 3-turns and mohawks but I already know the steps to the Swing and Fiesta. Why? Because it gives me something to work on and improve in between the time I put in on the backwards crosscuts, the mohawks on both feet and the 3-turns. If I didn't have those dances, I'd go stir-crazy on my 2 - 3-hour session on Tuesdays, especially since I have one 15-min lesson that day.

I'm NOT doing freeskate -- I'm 45 years old and don't relish attempting to break anything until I'm more confident, but I *have* done 2 pathetic revolutions on a one-foot spin, and a cheated toe-waltz jump and a bunny hop. To hear you talk, I should be spending all my time on my stroking and 3-turns. I can tell you right now, if I did nothing but 'basics' with my students in school, they'd be bored to tears in no time -- same goes for adult skaters...goes for ANY skaters!

Give your students a challenge...something a little beyond them and make them reach for it -- you'll both be better off in the end.

Here's my input as an adult skater. Skating is a journey. Where you start this trip, mindset, may not be where you end it. When I first started skating it was for physical therapy and fun, time to get away from the kids and spend time doing something for me. I needed a coach who I had fun with and made my experience enjoyable. She kept things positive, helped me "overlook" any pain I was having and made everything exciting. When I started wanting to grow as a skater I looked for this in a coach. I wanted to learn things right and be pushed. I most certainly didn't want to be babied. I didn't want the great when it was bad. Hate this. Now, I'm at another place. Thinking about testing and maybe competing. Again my needs have changed. I've also learned more about what I want as a student. I also feel that as an adult that I don't have as long as a child to learn skills and sometimes push the envelope on what I try. In some ways this is bad, but in others it keeps me inspired. My coach is working hard with me to improve on my weaknesses and at the same time lets me inspire myself with the skills I want. No, my wants aren't perfect, but yet again I'm trying and having fun. When you try and are inspired you can do much or at the least improve.

As for the skater who thinks her/his skills are better than they are....let it be. To some extent we all fall into this group. I'm sure I do. =-)

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"I truly believe, when God created skating, he patted himself on the back."

Something you should keep in mind... it's the coach's job to make sure those skaters are decent enough skaters. If I were you, I stay out of their business. Let the coaches do their work on their students! Trust me, those adults are working as much as they can, as do the coaches of those students.

Now, if those same students come to you as a coach, then you can work out an arrangement that works for the both of us, since you are now THEIR coach! But be prepared to be patient. There are students like me who are really putting in a lot of work into their skating and despite that, the progress is still glacial.

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I don't really see how it is a "type" of skater...I think it's more those who find a coach willing to teach something that shouldn't be learned yet vs the one who follows safe/proper progression and makes the student wait.

This is what I never understood and still don't get about adult skating, (kids do this too, but it's normal for a child to be impatient and not understand why they must wait, and to get frustrated- an adult should have the maturity to understand the reasons and to be patient, after all if it was your child coming home frustrated that he/she must learn the basics first I am sure you would tell them it is for their own good) for some reason, it seems like some adult skaters feel "entitled" (in quotations because I'm not sure that's the word I want but I can't think of another) to be able to learn whatever they want because they have little time and it costs a lot of money and they should learn whatever they want. I don't get how figure skating became that kind of sport, that people can walk into it thinking that.
You don't show up to a ballet class for the first time and demand to be put right onto pointe because you're strapped for time and you're a grown up and decide what parts of the process interests you most. You don't walk into gymnastics (actually I doubt there are adult gymnastics classes to begin with) and demand to be taught a back-handspring or an arabian because you don't want to bother with round-offs and cartwheels first.
I do not for the life of me understand, and I ask myself this often while reading this section of the board, why figure skating is thought of as different. It's a difficult sport, with clear and pretty much cut-out steps to progression, and I don't know why some adults walk into it thinking they ought to be able to pick the fun parts and nothing else because "after all, I don't want to compete or test, I'm just having fun." Well that's GREAT and I hope everyone keeps having fun but, it wouldn't work that way for gymnastics or ballet or any other sport for that matter, so why do people think it should for skating? I understand there are limited funds, and time constraints, but in that case, it will just take a little longer. And adult should understand that there are "boring parts" and that they may last a while, and that's just the protocol of learning something new. You don't start piano lessons and think you can even attempt Mozart's "Turkish March". It'd be horrendous. I don't think it's right for a person to get taught steps the person is clearly not ready for, and unless there ARE impeccable basics, there's no point in learning more advanced stuff - it looks bad, and no matter how much you practice it, if you are doing it wrong because of a major basic skating flaw that you're unwilling to correct away from the difficult step, it will never look good. I see this a lot at the different rinks I have skated at. I know this may not be the case, but to me, when I watch it, it just looks like an utter lack of respect for the sport and art form in which you are participating to butcher a salchow because you don't know the concept of checking a 3-turn, for example.

So why is skating thought of in a way that you can sort of walk in and pick and choose what you want to learn, when nothing else works that way? And is it a good thing for adult skating as a whole (aka those willing to start from scratch and spend months/years getting their basics down before trying anything else). I thought I read somewhere (on here) that some people felt that adult skating was getting a very bad reputation because so many skaters couldn't skate properly (stroke, crossovers, three turns, etc...) and yet did tricks and that people were talking about how "the adult skaters need to learn how to skate", wasn't this at some USFS meeting or something? I don't think that's a good image to perpertuate, no matter how fun learning a jump before you're ready might be.

Ice skating is a complex sport, and almost impossible to understand, for an uninformed spectator. Commentating on TV etc is largely done by lifelong skaters who do not realise the importance of explaining technique. So to the average non-participant, skating technique becomes a foggy world obscured by spangly dresses, smaltzy music, cheesy grins, and sticking-out bottoms. The only way to really understand the elements (and therefore respect their difficulty), is to learn and attempt them oneself - spins, jumps, edges, turns, whatever. For an adult, the engineering, physics and mechanical aspects of skating are interesting in themselves. Learning the elements, even to a very low standard, immeasurably helps appreciation of the sport.

You only have to look at the appalling marking discrepancies of some judges to understand this: if a judge is aged sixty plus, doesn't coach, passed silver free without jumps, or competed dance without lifts or twizzles - how can they possibly assess the relative difficulty?

Many lifelong skaters in positions of influence in the sport have a snobbish attitude to wider participation. But we need to remember that the survival of a sport depends on a large mass of interest and knowledge at the lower levels: no one sneers at a weekend jogger, because they are not an athlete like Kelly Holmes. No one sneers at a family playing football in the park, even if they may not be Ronaldo or David Beckham; but over much of the world, soccer is the biggest participation and spectator sport there is. Ice skating as a sport should learn from this.

What she said! The more clubs that hold internal competitions two or three times a year, the better. That gives everybody something to work for. Our club has a rule that you have to have passed all your UK Skate tests (the basic learn-to-skate tests) to take part in the two major closed competitions it holds each year, but this is more honoured in the breach than in the observance. I've seen a child skate round doing the occasional spiral, who received just as big a round of applause, if not bigger, and was every bit as pleased with herself, as the child who landed her double axel. I know adults who are finding working on a very simple pairs sequence every bit as challenging, and as fun, as those working on a thrown triple axel. And I know a skater with Down's Syndrome who competes against the rest of us (and has been known to beat me in artistic competitions!), who placed last in the free dance class in the recent Scottish competitions, but who was awarded a gold medal for special achievement, and for helping out all day (which he had been doing, most efficiently). He was thrilled and delighted, you've never seen such a huge grin!

Could I add one thing nobody has mentioned yet in this fascinating discussion. Sometimes, skaters - and I mean all skaters, not just adults - simply don't realise that their basics aren't up to scratch. They can do something that looks like a 3-turn, or a rather cheated Choctaw, but it's not until something shakes them awake that they realise their turn is unchecked, or their edges aren't on an edge..... Dancers are trained to think that you can't practice your edges and turns too much, but we don't always realise this!

Take my husband as an example. He's a better skater than I am, there's no debate about that, but in many ways this is because he is not as afraid as me, so he can throw himself round turns that I am apt to balk at. So he dances in the level above me (Foxtrot, 14-step, Fiesta Tango, Willow Waltz - US Adult Bronze level, I suppose) with another partner, who is very good, much better than either of us, but who isn't very used to partnering more than the basic dances. And working with her on the Foxtrot really showed up the deficiencies in his basic skating. Which I could have told him about (and did, loudly and frequently! ), so could his coach, but until he realised they were there, he didn't see that he needed to work on them. Now he does, and has been working on his back edges and on checking his 3-turns for hours on end this past week! Long may it last!!!!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Fadedstardust - as far as adults, perhaps not as much "entitled" as realistic. I'm certainly not suggesting that someone learn an axel before a waltz jump, but we all don't have to follow the "standard" (whatever that may be), progression of skills. We all have different goals and learning abilities, and yes like it or not, time, money and physical ability are major factors in adult skating. There are many adult skaters who have less than desirable crossovers, but have some pretty decent jumps. It's not the ideal situation, but it's their situation. There are some skaters who will never get the basic skills as well as some might think they should have. Should they not be allowed to learn other skills and enjoy the sport as they wish to?
I skated with one pair partner who was brand new to pairs, and we wanted to compete our first season together. My thoughts were that he did not need to learn the world of pair elements in the "standard" order of progression, and we were limited by time and funds. We decided to carefully pick and choose what we would do, and do them well. It's not exactly the same, but an example of the real situations adult skaters encounter. By the way - it was a very successful and safe season.

I did brackets last night (senior bronze skills level) just because I wanted to be shown something hard, that I can't do, but could work towards as a reward. I'm actually working on preliminary waltzing 3's & mohawks (I can do them, and have been told I must test them) and we got off onto the topic of rotating the other way, and got into a brackets lesson. I would NEVER say that I can do brackets, although a managed a couple FI ones. This is where I am different from the a skater I know, if she did one bracket, she would talk about how she had mastered brackets. That's a misguided adult.

FYI, the progression of skills in Canada is front 3 turns (prelim), back 3 turns (jr bronze), brackets (sr bronze), that's a very very simplistic view. Did I want to learn back 3's. Nah. Brackets were more fun. Back 3's will come another day.

[QUOTE=slusher]I did brackets last night (senior bronze skills level) just because I wanted to be shown something hard, that I can't do, but could work towards as a reward. I'm actually working on preliminary waltzing 3's & mohawks (I can do them, and have been told I must test them) and we got off onto the topic of rotating the other way, and got into a brackets lesson. I would NEVER say that I can do brackets, although a managed a couple FI ones. This is where I am different from the a skater I know, if she did one bracket, she would talk about how she had mastered brackets. That's a misguided adult.

I agree. I have learned some tricks but I'm really focusing on improving my technique these days. My coach is laughing because I've really started asking a million technique questions. But we were talking and I said that my plain easy toe loop was not quite right and that i want to have the correct technique so I will be able to attempt a double. It's boring going back to the single toe but I realize just how "off" my technique is.

I don't mind saying "hey..i did AN axel almost clean..woohoo" but I would never say that I've mastered it. Sometimes things happen by freak chance but until you get a good completion ratio than it isn't even half way there. And once you can do it, mastering it is another story because there are so many technical parts to each element

And brackets....don't get me started. I can do them in a syncro line but by myself they are horrid.....

That's a very good point! If you can "get by" with mediocre basics, it's tempting to do so because they're boring anyway. . . but eventually, you'll need to get them right in order to do more difficult--and fun--elements. So I guess that ensures that everyone will have to work on those basics sooner or later.

My coach and I go back and forth. Some days we'll work on basic stuff--yesterday was crossovers, stroking, and edging--next week will be jumps and spins. Some days we do both--like if I'm having trouble with the 3turn entry of the salchow, we'll work on that for a while, then combine it back with the jump. I learn best in pieces. She'll teach me an entire move or element, I'll try it a few times, then we break it down into the individual parts. When I started learning salchow, I must have done the 3turn entry a million times before I even attempted to add the jump to it. We have just learned that I learn better that way.

The other thing is, my mind may know how to do something, but my body can't necessarily do it. I can think "check the 3turn" all day long, but I struggle with it. My running joke is that there is a barrier in my neck that prevents the skill from getting from my brain to my body. It's part of being 41.

Another thing--i started in adult Learn to Skate. Adult LTS is four levels. Kids LTS is eight levels, so once I finished adult and passed into freestyle, we had to go backwards, because many basic elements are missing from adult. Three years out, I'm still learning them. They just aren't taught in that curriculum.

I also changed my goals. I started out wanting to do laps to get some exercise and lose weight. I found out it was boring just doing laps, so I wanted to learn other elements, so I had to backtrack some there too, since we had just skimmed over some basics, and that was my choice, not the instructor's. (She's paying for that, 'cause she's my private coach and has to reteach them to me now.)

I'm one of those weird people that enjoys moves even while they frustrate me. I will frequently use them as a warm-up and/or cool-down (but not on FS ice time) So, I am still working on basic, and more advanced skills at the same time. I practice what my frame of mind needs that day, and usually get all my skills in every couple of days.

Everybody learns differently. If you want to coach, you'll have to accept that fact. If you can't, you'll either have no students, or only those that learn the way you want to teach. We have an Olympic medalist that teaches at our rink. She's a good skater, and I've had a few lessons with her, but she won't be my personal coach. I just don't learn well the way she teaches. We are friends off-ice, though.

Sorry, this is waaaaay too long.

Why not? This is a serious question. In learning a back handspring or an arabian, you'll also learn a round-off or cartwheel, because they are part of the element. You don't have to learn a round-off or cartwheel in isolation to 'perfection' before you can even touch the idea of a handspring. You can't do a full back handspring without a round-off, so you'll get a semblance of one in there whether you want to or not....but you can do, say, a standing back tuck without one. And if someone wants to learn a back tuck, and not a round-off, who are YOU to say they can't or shouldn't? What's it to you?







I bet you denigrate little kids tossing off crappy cartwheels on the park grass, or rotten bunny hops on a frozen pond, too, because they're 'just picking out the fun parts', and don't want to compete or test, but just want to 'have fun'. I'll say it again--it's not up to you to decide what is fun for other people.

Sure it would. But if that's all you want, why not? I play piano, and while I was learning, there were a number of pieces that I really wanted to learn, even though they were beyond my abilities. I was sick to death of what I was working on, so on the side, I set a difficult but desired piece in front of me and picked it out. It took a long time before I had it all picked out, and even longer before I could play it so that it was recognizable, and longer still before I could play it with reasonable flow, etc. But you know what? I learned an awful lot about playing the piano while on the journey.

I'll borrow a quote from The Cutting Edge--"If you want to win, you play it straight." Well, if winning's your goal, I absolutely agree. If someone skips over the basics and still expects to win, they'll probably have a painful lesson coming to them. But if a person doesn't care one little whit about winning, and wants to take the road less traveled, then meandering is par for the course. Their path has nothing to do with yours--so why should you be upset? It's not your call.

Because it's their money and their life, that's why. It's their checkbook, not yours. I understand what you are saying, and I agree with your approach for my own personal goals, but why do I care what someone else wants to do for their hobby?

My guess is those adults are having a lot of fun w/ their skating. They probably get a rush out of jumping or spinning, even if it is a weak element. They may also be learning all of these skills simultaneously.

I teach groups, and we start kids on waltzes before they are good basic skaters. Yes, they can skate and glide on 1 foot, but they are not strong skaters. It seems learning skills simultaneously is not only stimulating for the student, but these skills build upon each other. They learn to skate into the jump and glide out of it.

As an adult skater myself, I continue to improve my basics as I learn new tricks. My basics are stronger than ever, but they go hand in hand w/ other skills. If I didn't have a loop, I probably would not be motivated to skate as fast as I can into it. The faster and stronger I skate, the better the jump. The more confident I am w/ the jump, the more power I put into my skating. I guess it's a chicken and egg riddle for me.

Kay

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But they are the ones who then run out and complain that all the levels are unfair, etc. I'm making a HUGE generalization here because for the most part, many adults are probably just wanting to learn skills for fun, not competition or are very limited on time they can spend at the rink. IMO the ones who compete that have very poor skills and either try harder leveled elements in their program (i try a few harder elements in mine but i have the basic jumps and spins for that level) are the ones who complain more. For example, a skater who can't land a loop wants to put an axel in the program. That's fine, but then don't complain that you didn't win the competition or placed poorly and can't understand it when you attempted the axel.

I also think it is a lack of communication between coach and skater on expectations. We are adults and can communicate to our coach what our intentions are. I think that a lot of people don't and perhaps the coaches don't realize that some may want to test or compete.

I'm of the mind that if you want to learn elements thats great and there is nothing wrong with it, but if you plan on competing or trying tests then you have to realize you have to master the skills to the best of your ability. I think a lot of adult skaters get pushed along or just patted on the head because we are trying these things at older ages. Again, it relates back to expectations and the communication between skater and coach.

In Canada, Code of Points will be hitting the adult world in a year or two and I think adult skaters will be more well rounded because of it. I know that my program that I'm getting is being geared more towards COP even though its not in place yet.

I guess in doing ballet since I could walk I've just been taught that these sports/artforms have a natural progression and that there are rules as to what you learn before you progress. These rules have been followed everywhere in the world since the beginning of these art forms being taught and I just don't see why we should *******ize them (or skip them altogether) to make them more fun- they weren't designed to be fun to begin with. This natural progression teaches patience, discipline, and help build the muscles you will need for the more difficult elements. I guess I've always been taught- and now strongly believe- that you must "earn" the right to learn the hard/fun elements by practicing the basics until you're good enough to be worthy of them. It doesn't mean that's what everyone must do, but because I believe this so strongly, watching people do differently when it goes against everything I have been taught and believe about this sport, it does bother me because I don't think it's right. That doesn't take the "fun" out of it for others so I don't see where the problem in me feeling this way is.

No, as I said in my post, most little kids don't have the maturity to understand the work ethic I described above. And if no one teaches it to them, then they cannot be expected to learn it on their own at such an early age. There are a lot of things children can be expected to do that are wrong that adults do not get the same leeway towards because they really ought to know better. Knowing that one must work through boring/annoying/challenging basics to get to progress naturally to more difficult things is a basic thing and anyone 18 and up should really grasp the process by now. I mean you don't usually start at a law firm as a partner- maybe you start as a lawyer but most likely you start as an assistant of some kind- and work your way up. When you learn to read, I doubt The Fountainhead is the first thing you'll pick up. There are just progressions in this world, and in a sport as old and as structured as skating, I don't know why we are trying to rewrite them, that's all. I'm learning that this sport is one that can be "for fun" and not just for people wishing to compete, but that is taking me a while to fully see, because I didn't use to understand why people would want to spend time/money on something they don't plan on competing/having a career in. Reading your posts a while back about a question of mine shed a lot of light on that. But so far I am just not seeing why we should alter the rules for anyone. If the basics of the sport aren't fun enough and people don't feel like sticking through them, then I don't see how they can like this sport because everything is based on the basics- you'll do them the rest of your life on the ice. So if you don't like them why do you like the jump? It's just a 3-turn with a hop. But a 3-turn without a hop isn't any fun? I don't get that.
I'm sorry to those I've bothered with these comments but these message boards are to exchange opinions and understand other people's ideas better, so that's what I am doing.

I really appreciate the comments. I've seen several different sides of the story now.

Going back through the replies, I've noticed some comments where people say those skaters "doing it just for fun" are entitled to work on anything they want and I probably should mind my own business. Sure, I agree with that sort of. Unfortunately, the people I've been observing who seem to need to slow down and focus on basics are the ones who seem extremely competitive and serious.

Have you ever been involved in a comp where adults are crying before and after their skate? How about in testing where they are physically sick before they test and then cry before they even know the results and are angry when they have less than perfect comments or scores from judges? I HAVE. I'd be surprised if others haven't. Many adults seem to take what they do for more than just a rec hobby or for fun. So, why are the coaches who have these types of skaters letting them get by with extremely weak basic skills and allowing them to proceed into areas I see as downright dangerous-both physically and mentally?

I think its about honesty. I think its about money. I think some of the coaches are 1) afraid to be honest with the skaters and 2) just want that income rolling in and will do whatever the skater wants to pacify them. I think some of the skaters have unrealistic opinions about themselves and unobtainable goals. It is possible to have "fun" lessons and keep a student challenged and motivated even if you are working on things that lots of people here call boring. I think saying that the basic skills in skating can be boring and that adults need more "tricks" in their repertoire is a cop-out! Plies and tendus are basic and "boring" but even the professionals start out every day with lots and lots of them and you won't hear them complaining. I feel good skaters will put in the time and effort to be strong skaters and don't bite off more than they can chew and good coaches know when their student needs a reality check and won't push them into skipping all over the freestyle levels!

That's what I've come to believe and I think this "it's just for fun-mind your own business and hey, lets sign up for the next competition" attitude it is harming the reputation of the adult skating world. Skating is growing by leaps and bounds with children, but there aren't that many adults skating overall and if you want to be taken seriously, have more "adult only" ice time and classes, more competitions and performing opps available, I would work a bit harder to dispel the notion that adults skaters want all the glory but don't want to work hard and do the "boring" stuff. I'm a young adult skater and I have even younger friends. They think adults are, for the most part, A JOKE! They talk behind their(our) backs. They mock them/us. They think adults are just in the way on the ice. Is it fun to be perceived this way? Others could mind their own business, but honestly the feeling I get from most other younger skaters is negative toward adults. So overall I guess my reasons for talking about this is out of concern. I wouldn't be so content just saying to yourselves that the adults can do what they want and others should butt out because the rinks and organizations out there are catering to the kids and the parents, not the adults.

As an adult skater and coach, I've found some of the above postings to be pretty interesting!

Let me add my own story. I started skating when I was 14 at a competitive skating rink where most of my LTS and then freestyle classmates were nearly half my age. I didn't have the natural ability nor fearlessness for skating that many younger skaters had--I am absolutely petrified of falling--but I loved skating and was willing to work hard at any element I needed to.

I've been lucky in that my coaches have acknowledged my fears while also pushing me to reasonable limits. At first, my refusal to fall meant that my waltz jump was barely more than a glorified step, and my toe loop miniscule, but as I became more comfortable on ice, my jumping ability improved. However, my coaches continued to push me--landing clean jumps gave me clear mental hurdles I eventually overcame. So even though an onlooker might have discounted the quality of my single jumps when I was first learning them, I would instead argue that every skater starts somewhere. Sometimes it just takes us adults a little longer to get going.

My mother is a recreational skater who has been skater for 10 years but refuses to do anything more than forward skating and one-foot glides. Yet she's happy on the ice, so why should anything change?

As a coach, while I naturally enjoy the quick learners who are unafraid to take risks (who wouldn't?), I can empathize with students afraid to practice back crossovers or one-foot glides because they have bad memories of those elements. So, my own fears have instead allowed me to better understand the concerns of others when they step on the ice.

What I'm trying to say is that as an adult skater, I've learned how to push myself. As a coach, I've learned how to push my students. But there isn't a one-size-fits-all method for either coaching or skating. Each skater reacts differently to the ice, to jumping, to spinning. It's a successful coach that can figure out what will make the skater accomplish all she wants to.

On a side note--I took an adult gymnastics class at a university a few years ago. There were quite a few beginners who would attempt back handsprings despite being unable to do more basic elements like forward rolls. And you know what? They were having a great time in the practices alone, regardless of how much they ending up mastering.

-Kirsten

Well, as with anything in life, there will always be whiners.

Well I certainly haven't seen what you're describing, and I've been competing as an adult in USFSA for about 6 years now. It sounds like you're just around a bunch of drama queens! I don't really think there are that many adult skaters like you describe. Perhaps the rink/club environment where you are simply encourages histrionics. I've never seen that kind of angst over adult skating. (Recent Peach Classic not withstanding! )

Sure, those of us who compete certainly take it seriously, but most of us realize our self-worth isn't tied to our test results! With any population (adult skaters) you're bound to get some crackpots. Don't judge adult skating by the nonsense you see at your rink!

As for those who are "competitive" but have poor basic skating skills, that situation will take care of itself. You can't make a self-delusional adult understand that they need to go back to the basics. The skaters will either continue their self-delusion and blame poor results on judges/coaches/music/etc., or they and the coach will figure out they need to spend some quality time with basic skills.

Hm. I have too, and I've actually been one of those skaters. Did you ever stop to find out WHY that adult was crying? I cried after my first-ever competition, because as a naturally shy person, I was thrilled I went through with it and that I had done what I set out to accomplish. Tears of joy, not anguish, big difference.

I don't disagree with you there. I didn't have an opinion of the standardizing of adult MIF until I had to do them. What a difference they made in my basic skating skills, I'm an advocate for them.

First, to those rude younger skaters, they should be ashamed. Adult skaters here, and where I used to skate in Michigan, are respected as an active part of the figure skating community, both on and off the ice. That Beta adult skater Suzy Snowflake is snickering about? He just volunteered to run to the airport to pick up the judges for her event. Little Hans Brinker thinks it's funny to imitate the lady in the middle practicing her two-foot spin? She's the one making his costume for the Christmas show. Or chairing a test event. Or donating a blanket for the club fundraiser. YOU as an adult have the power and influence to change their way of thinking, instead of going along with their way of thinking.

Your comments make me appreciate the kids I skate with and my local skating community.

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Champagne in 2005, 2008, 2009 - who's next out of the pre-bronze club...?

Wang chung!

It's an interesting discussion, and I thank you for starting it!

Probably, as I said before, they have no real awareness of how badly they skate, but they want to learn the skills as soon as they can, simply because they are aware their bodies will eventually let them down.

I've also seen children rigid with nerves before a test or competition, and weeping afterwards. You can't just say this is something adults do - it's something skaters do. Don't forget that many children, as well as adults, enjoy competing and testing with no real expectation that they'll ever be very good, but just because it's a most enjoyable sport. This doesn't mean they don't take it seriously, but they, like the adults, are recreational skaters. Maybe some of the older kids have an idea they might like to skate for Holiday or one of those during their gap year, but many more just want to skate instead of playing netball or rugby. Or, indeed, as well as!

Then the culture at your rink must be totally and utterly different from the culture at mine. I simply don't recognise what you are describing. Here, adult skating is taken increasingly seriously. As you may or may not know, there is to be the first-ever ISU Adult World Championships next June, in Germany. I plan to be there. I would be very surprised indeed if I were to become World Champion at my level (pre-Bronze) and age group (III), but it won't be for want of trying that I don't. The other skaters at my rink, whether they are four or 74 - and we have both - take me seriously as a skater, just as they take themselves seriously. We have elite skaters preparing for the "real" British championships, and we have recreational skaters preparing for the local Winter Festival - but we are all skaters, we are all in it together, and we all help one another.

That may have been true ten years ago, but really, it no longer is. The ISU, NISA, the USFSA and now the Canadian figure skating organisation (is that CFSA, or is that too logical?) are all recognising adult skating as a serious branch of the sport. If you go to the NISA web page, you will see it is one of the recognised disciplines. Even the federations in France and Belgium, which have been difficult in the past, are beginning to recognise adult skaters and adult skating.

If your rink has a culture where adults are despised, then do something about it! But don't assume that what is the norm for your rink is the norm at other rinks, as it's not. Many, if not most rinks consider that skaters are skaters, whether they are 4 or 74, elite or beginners. We are all skaters.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!