I can say that I, personally, would love to see an adult category for a team with mainly no-test skaters -- like mine. We're not old enough to be a masters team.

The team we fielded at ISI Nationals this past weekend had one Adult gold skater (our coach), one Bronze skater, and Jessi (skittles1321) who has passed Bronze MIF, but not tested Bronze free yet. The rest of us are no-test skaters. We skated as well as we could, but knew we were outclassed from the get-go. Thank goodness we're not medal driven -- we've learned that fourth out of five is as good as we'll ever do, so fourth place and clean programs is great!

If our team is around next year, we're considering crossing over and doing USFS Sectionals since they're happening here. We're pretty sure that we'll be beaten soundly, but if we skate well, we'll still be proud!

Adult Open sounds like the level you're looking for. You don't have to be Adult or Masters, and the requirements are pretty simple: A team of 8-12 skaters. The majority of the team must be 19 years or older. No test requirements.

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

Yes- but we've seen the teams who skate in it, and they could kick our butts with their eyes closed and in borrow skates (which almost happened at ISI nationals... happily the skater who practiced in borrowed skates got her skates in time for the comp.) Most of the teams DO have a test requirement, individually, even if the level doesn't. Our teams requirement is "can skate backwards quickly and do crossovers and mohawks". (I also think she got the test levels wrong. I'm pretty sure our coach is Adult Silver, with Gold moves, and the Bronze skater she mentioned is PB with Bronze moves, like me)

Like quarkiki said, we are happy to just be skating, but there isn't a level we could really compete in, in ISI or USFSA. It might as well be an exhibition.


I personally plan to test my Bronze free program in June, not because I'm ready to pass, but because I want a chance to skate it, and it's way cheaper to do the test than to do the competition, which would end up being against no one, or someone much higher than me anyway. So if I do pass- bonus, if not, well I get a critique

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Stormy -- yeah, adult open is where we'll compete, but 95% of the adult teams will still cream us. Which is fine -- we're not in it for medals, like I said. I'm pretty representative of most of my team's skaters and I still two-foot three turns at speed. We've got a *very* small pool of adult skaters in Iowa and are really proud of what we're able to do.

Bluemoon - in many cases nothing does get done by voicing concerns to the committee, but we're still hopeful.

Rachel - The test the waters skaters that irritate me are the ones ready to pass gold, with an axel and a couple doubles ready and enter at silver. Who are they kidding? I medaled at AN in bronze and I was a bronze skater, then tested up to silver and after a while medaled again. I didn't have any interest in taking the gold test then so I didn't compete at silver the next few years but moved on to interpretive.

I also passed bronze before the elements were changed (not sure about silver) but didn't expect or want to be put back to the pre-bronze level. The pairs issue is different in that the elements within a level were not change, but the test was eliminated and the test we were grandfathered to changed significantly . This has now happened twice, and yet with the same exact test, depending on when you took it, you are either a pre-juv (silver) or juvenile (gold). In addition the rules are inconsistent in that a juvenile freestyle before the rules were changed puts you at silver, and after gold. But for pairs there's no difference - you're gold. All in all this would still have been ok with me until the last mess of pair rules were passed allowing skating down. In theory, this would have been ok with all other factors being equal, but the homework was not done to determine if this was indeed the case. So this year we have skaters in the same group with significantly different test levels.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

Whoever said that to you should be ashamed - anyone who holds an attitude like that one doesn't belong on the governing committee of any sport, let alone a governing committee that is supposedly interested in attracting new people of all ages to the sport. And shame on any skater who feels embarrassed about the efforts of any other skater of any age or ability - that type of attitude speaks volumes about the person or people who hold it, but (I hope) does not reflect the opinions of skaters in general.

I keep telling you guys, you haven't seen our team yet! We are older than you, and probably pretty much in the same place skill-wise. I'm Silver with Gold MIF, we have one returning adult skater who had done her Preliminary test at best back in the day, and everybody else is no test. If you were a USFS team, you could compete against us - we're only an hour away! And probably win! You guys should totally come to Sectionals next year!

That said, there are two different kinds of Open Adult teams - those of us who are mainly no-test adults, and those that are made up of high test kids who aren't old enough for a regular Adult team, or don't have the numbers for a Senior team. Theoretically, you could have a whole team of 19 year old Senior skaters and call them Open Adult. We just ignore teams like that, and try to skate as well as we can for ourselves.

Skittl and Jskater - PLEASE don't give up on the Bronze FS test just because of the sitspin!! I have seen adults pass this test with barely a squatting position because the overall quality of their program was good enough to satisfy the judges. I've seen the same thing happen on the Adult Gold FS test with the axel. I'm sure judges on the board can back me up on this.

Is this in reference to pairs or singles skaters? If you're referring to singles, then I've personally never come across any of these skaters (I won AN in my age class at Silver in 2005, then moved up to Gold in 2006 and have been there since). I've heard a few Silver skaters *claim* to have a double or two, but once they move up to Gold, you rarely see them get credit for a clean double. I had an inconsistent double salchow by the time I tested up to Gold, and have still only landed one clean one in competition since moving up. In Gold, especially under IJS, it's actually quite common to get your butt kicked by someone who does nothing above a lutz!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Doubletoe - if you've not encountered returning skaters in your fs that belong at another level then you're very fortunate. I got pretty tired of seeing it. I'm happy to have returning skaters compete, but at the right level. I have seen so many of my friends stop competing because of this.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

Getting back to the original topic...

Phase I of the plan will be implemented with the publication of the 2009-10 rulebook on Sept. 1, 2009. This will include the pre-preliminary through pre-juvenile tests along with the eight-step Mohawk in juvenile and the inside three-turns/rocker choctaw move in novice. The changes to the adult moves tests will also be rolled out Sept. 1, 2009.

Phase II will take effect Sept. 1, 2010, and include the intermediate through senior tests.

This is from the posting on the USFS website referring to the changes in the MITF.

The new proposed adult moves include changes at every level, including the addition of the Forward Circle Eight to Bronze Moves and the change in the Eight Step Mohawk to a figure eight pattern--so that you can't use the hockey circle to keep your circles the right size, or stop to realign in between the circles.

Sorry, but I think the proposed implementation plan stinks. Why on earth are they dividing the implementation dates like this, with one date being only four months after the final decision is made? These changes may be remarkably easy for kids to make, but for adults who have never done figures before (or have been working on the eight-step mohawk for two years and are finally close to having it right) it means either a rush to test or starting from scratch. Why not have the implementation date in Sept. 2010 for everyone? Geez.

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You miss 100% of the shots you never take.--Wayne Gretzky

I've encountered this many times at the bigger competitions. I've actually injured myself several times trying to keep up with them.

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This space has been put on hiatus for retuning....

There are no changes to the Gold test.

(although I have been tempted to send an e-mail to the adult chair asking why the slide chasses have a completely different focus (power/continuous flow) on the adult track than on the standard track (edge quality and extension) - methinks it's an error from back when they changed the moves a few years ago and substituted the slide chasses for that Novice move, of which the primary focus was power - I remember when the Silver test changed and they substituted power pulls for the slide chasses and for several weeks the focus for power pulls was edge quality and extension until someone figured it out - I wonder how many errors are going to occur with the test sheets next year with all the half-changes )

Agreed.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

I have seen it as well, but not to a huge degree. There's really only a couple I could think of by name.

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

You haven't been around that long. I can come up with at least a dozen people right off the top of my head. And of the large group of people I skated with and against, only two are still competing.

A lot of times they used "injury" as the reason but the reality is that they got too discouraged and left.

Mea culpa-- I put blinders on to anything past the level I'm working on or have done--and Gold Moves is about to get another 8-12 months further away!

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You miss 100% of the shots you never take.--Wayne Gretzky

OK, here's a twist on what we've been discussing. Personally, I don't think someone who qualifies for a championship event should be allowed to skate in the corresponding open event at AN. If you qualify, you are skating at a higher level than those who did not qualify - the open event, IMO, is for people who didn't qualify or who couldn't get to the sectionals. It's no fun to skate in the open at AN and know that the first two or three places are probably going to be taken by people who are also skating (and in some cases - based on their past history - getting a medal) in the championship event. It's really common in gold ladies.

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

I see your point, but that doesn't always happen. Ice is slippery, and you never know what kind of performance someone is going to put out at that particular moment. IIRC, the past few years, the skaters in both Open and Champ finished all over the place. And if you restrict Open to only those who didn't qualify for Champ, you can still get Champ-level skaters that, for whatever reason, couldn't go to Sectionals (or went and had a really bad skate).

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Yeah, my coach likes to double up on things....and have me work on everything at once. I have yet to master the change-foot spin and keep falling on the back 3's......

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Ice is slippery for everyone, and also someone could have the performance of their lives. It's not about those two extremes, rather the averages. Chances are very good that if you qualified, you are skating at a higher level (that year) than the other skaters who did not.

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

Whenever I encounter someone who--at first glance--appears to be "sandbagging", I make it a point to ask her about her skating history. Invariably, there is a good reason why she hasn't tested up. Usually, it's one of these:
(1) never competed before and has no idea how she will do
(2) has tried to pass the test to move up but there's one element on it that is preventing her (sometimes it's the MIF test)
(3) has a coach who has never coached adults before and thinks everyone competes way above test level
After the first season, those who fall into the (1) and (2) categories almost always move up. In the rare instance that one doesn't, she doesn't tend to have very many friends. . .

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

And now that there's a different judging system at Nationals than Sectionals, it is TRULY all over the place! Those who qualified for the Championship events were those who placed well under 6.0 at Sectionals. Under 6.0, spins, footwork and spirals are not as well rewarded and underrotated jumps are not as severely penalized. They may go to Nationals and do not do well at all under IJS.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Yeah, the economy is really hitting us hard now for those of us adult skaters who use to cross boarder compete in the US who are from Canada. The hikes in the entry fees can be a killer when you compound it with the exchange rate.

As far as competing against those who have skated as children/teens feeling stomped on, well, you wouldn't feel that way if you had a way to compete against yourselves. IJS, which is like our Canadian CPC and the ISU COP, is the ticket that can allow for adult skaters, be they adult onset skaters, returning skaters who took learned to skate as a child, returning skaters who got upto the first few single jumps and a forward basic upright spin and also upto and including returning skaters who use to do those double and maybe triple jumps, to compete against themselves. How? Each time a skater competes in CPC here in Canada, they get a record of what & how they skated showing jumps, spins, footwork and/or spiral sequence including the GOE for each element and what their PCS were. Skaters and coaches can compare from one competition to the next the results. This happened for me at 2007 Adult Canadians all events including Adult Bronze FS were marked with CPC. Then the next year I was marked again under CPC. I could see that even though I didn't move much in the standings against my competitors, I improved immensely from 2007 to 2008. As of now, I hear rumblings that CPC may be used for all competitions and events in Canada by the end of 2010. I know for certain that at our Skate Canada WO Boston Pizza StarSkate Sectional where there are adult events, adults will be marked using CPC for the first time. This will give us Canadian WOS adult skaters a gage as to how we are doing competitively. This way when we go to Adult Canadians it won't be the first time competing with CPC and we'll have some time to tune our programs for CPC before Adult Canadians. I hope that my US adult skater friends including those in PreBronze FS have the chance to be marked under IJS before heading to the US Adult Nationals. After all, it's just not fair if we north of the US border do better at the ISU Adult Invitational (our Adult Worlds) because we've had more time to train our programs for COP.

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"It's not age that determines but the heart." "Skating is not just a sport for the young but it's a passion for the soul of the young at heart." Brigitte Laskowski

I am a nomadic adult skater who is a member of Windsor FSC (Skate Windsor) WOS SC again since Sept. 1st, 2008.

http://eastcastlemusic.tripod.com

Singerskates Sports Music Editing

To be replaced by next year's crop of returning skaters, which we all agree is growing. So every year, the Silver adult onset skaters get a fresh batch of beat downs.

Bumpity bump...

I see from Stormy's FB status that Adult Moves the Field have passed, but IJS at Adults Sectionals DID NOT PASS!!!

MITF was a no brainer. It's the Adults Sectional that i see a debate about. Some people are still against having IJS altogether. Others are pro-IJS for Sectionals. (I like the focus in training. I don't see the point of training for 6.0 and then redoing the program for AN. It already got one skater that I know off in the butt.) My guess is that the cost of implementing IJS is too costly at a Sectional event???

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Anyone up at GC who can give us some details on what's been going on (passing, not passing, other important details, etc.)?