Especially given that we were promised within 4 weeks at the competition, *and* our credit cards were charged at the competition.

For many of us, AN is the last competition of our season - where all the other tweaks and edits along the way are done and this is the final performance. To have to wait SO long to see what we did (competing is way less about any medal or placement for me - and way more about whether I skated the way I wanted to skate) is wrong on so many levels. It's very upsetting too.

I am well into mapping out my next year of training, and I'm going on how the program "felt". If I could rely on that reliably, I probably wouldn't need a coach - !!!

In short, I am an extremely unhappy customer. On some level I can excuse the long wait to get it up on IceNetwork - past experience has proven that process to be sporadic at best (both with IceNetwork and with the prior incarnation of Figure Skating Channel). But for those who paid a fairly large chunk of money up front for a DVD to be mailed in presumably 4 weeks - it's just wrong and bad business.

And according to several posters here (lovepairs and sk8er1964), they were told over a week ago that the DVDs were about to be mailed. If the completion process was still a "couple weeks" away, then why were they told they would be mailed imminently? Lying is a bad idea - for one, you can easily get caught.

Charging people's credit cards immediately is something that seems unique in the skating world. In addition to comp DVD and VHS orders, I had that experience when I ordered a dress that was on backorder. I was told the dress would take 4-6 weeks - it was more like 8 - and then, when it didn't fit and I sent it back, it took over a month for the co to issue the credit and then only after I called. Every time I've ordered something from a catalog or other store and it's not in stock, I don't get charged until the item is shipped.

Personally, I don't care about chapters and bells and whistles on my DVDs from comps (a clear picture is important, though). If doing all of that is what delays the process 2 months, then I think you need to reconsider your approach.

__________________
Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Is Icenetwork waiting on you, or are they having their own problems in getting these videos up?

Thanks to the poster who suggested contacting the Mids LOC to make them aware of my DVD woes. I actually worked on the committee but never thought to do this. I also think I'm going to find CG Video's email address and email them, letting them know I'll be stopping over to pick up my DVD sometime this week. At this point, I'd just like to have it.

As for making sure to pay by credit card, I would've if I'd realized I wouldn't get my DVD at the event like I thought I would. In fact, I don't even know if CG video takes credit cards for certain.

I guess I'm not all that concerned about getting my AN DVD because I haven't as of yet received my Mids DVD. I suppose if I'd already had that one, getting my AN DVD would be more of a priority! My boyfriend's still trying to get the AN sweatshirt he ordered for me at the event, too, as it also hasn't arrived!

__________________

"Without Vision the People Perish"
שלום לעולם תמיד

Joan,

Laura Fawcett told me awhile ago that IceNetwork had all the video in hand, and that the problem was "coding" it, or something like that? She told me by the end of last week that more of AN would be up, but nothing...

I worked for a 3rd party logistics company for a retailer for a while and the reason why retailers don't charge before the item ships (or charge and ship within 24 hours) is because according to my former contact at the retailer IT'S ILLEGAL for them to do so (and he was the Director of Distribution). They were very specific when we set up the order fullfillment and shipping operation that if we weren't going to ship something on the day the order came to us, we were to shift the pick date in their system so the customer wouldn't be charged.

I think this is interesting because I have had terrible luck with Productions East. First they are very, very expensive and then second I have not ever had them do what I requested correctly the first time. Now with that said, yes they were professional and did redo it later and send me a new copy but still 4 times I have to contact them after the competition to get something corrected. For the price they charge I would think it could be done correctly the first time.

Rae

You know what...I just really have to say this:

It seems as though "service" in this country is really on the decline. I can't explain it, but I can't get anything done anymore. It seems that:

1. Everytime I call any service oriented business to get something done, I get a voice mail, with a million loops, never get a person anymore, get dumped into a black hole, and no one returns my call.

2. If I am fortunate enough to get a human being on the phone, they can never answer my questions. No one ever knows anything anymore (everyone is functioning at the level of an intern) and the corportation won't even allow you to ask for the persons whole name with whom you are speaking. Or, should I say we can ask, but the person on the other end of the phone is not "allowed" to tell you their full name!

3. Nothing ever arrives in the mail on time anymore. Everything is always very delayed, and when it finally arrives...it's wrong and you have to start the entire process all over again!!! I always have to do things 2, or 3 times before I can have what I initially ordered done correctly.

4. Then, this happened to me last month, totally out of the blue MasterCard put a stop on my credit card. I go to use it and NOTHING!
So, I have to go to the bank, waste a whole afternoon to find out what is wrong...turns out I ordered something from England, and the credit card company became suspicious and put a hault on my card! So that was another whole day wasted doing nothing trying to clear this nothingness up.

5. We show up for a test that is scheduled for 3:30pm. They bump it up to 1:55. No one bothers to call us to tell us about this change. There are not enough judges to hang around to judge us. They make it feel like it's our fault...we rush to get ready for the god damn test, skate the thing feeling totally rushed, our coach shows up after the fact, because he was in transit coming from a distance...and well you know the rest...RETRY.

Please feel free to continue where I left off...thank you for listening to my rant, but this whole thing with still not being able to see our performance on IceNetwork, is sending me through the roof!!!!!!!!!

Hi everyone

I am so glad that Deb Shipwash from Local Motion decided to post in response to the nature of how they do business.

It appears that Local Motion has multiple options for producing video recordings. They are now saying they will produce non-"Nationals quality" DVDs to speed up the processing, but didn't we all pay $60+/flight for a "Nationals quality" DVD? Isn't this a rip-off? We should get what we paid for in a timely fashion as contracted at the time of sale. To provide us with anything less is a rip-off, unless they offer a partial refund with the non-"Nationals quality" DVD.

One thing is certain, customer satisfaction seems to be very low right now for them, and there must be at least a couple of hundred adult customers from AN out there, if not more.

I still maintain that an active e mail writing campaign might be effective, as they owe us a product and we should aggressively try to collect in the same way any of us would be chased if we owed a debt or service.

Cheers!

On that note, I think all the Adult Skaters should ask for a refund on their subscription with IceNetwork, or at the very least, agree not to renew for next season.

Although I can understand how it can get frustrating to not see more of the performance of the adult skaters for the past season on IceNetwork (Adult Mids and the rest of Adult Nationals), for my own case, I would not feel right asking for a refund or agreeing not to renew for next season. Although my primary reason for subscribing was to be able to view my own skates and those of my friends at adult events, I have still made ample use of my subscription to view many of the standard track events. I also feel that this type of service is still relatively new. This is only the second season that such a service has been offered. So I'm willing to hang on and continue to give web-based viewing of events a shot at least in the short-term and hope that they work out the kinks. The worst that can happen is that I would still get to view some great skating that I otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity to enjoy. Just my two cents.

Hi Sweetie,

Here in lies the problem:

All of the kids events went up in a very timely fashion. The technology didn't change between then and now. I simply feel that I did not get what I paid for, also I think it is very bad business for companies, such as IceNetwork not to respond to emails, and simply toss customer inquiries into a black hole...not very inspiring, or confidence building. I'm really not interested in being treated this way, and will not give them my very hard earned $$$ as a result.

I think they should do one of two things to placate their unhappy adult subscribers:

Keep the videos up all next year so we can view them over and over, as we would have already if they'd put them up in a timely fashion;

or

Give us a discount on next year's subscription and PROMISE to do better!

You are SO RIGHT. A large part of the problem is "big box" competition with everyone else so they have to cut costs; and to cut costs, they and also the big box companies outsource their phone answering to either automation or India.

There is an opportunity here for locally-owned businesses to step up and offer SERVICE. Since Icenetwork and Local Motion are both locally owned, they should be doing better in this department!

Oh yeah, one other thing -

Why can't Icenetwork.com answer emails? Are they so overworked or understaffed that they cannot extend a common courtesy of answering emails about their product? To be fair, they did respond to one of my emails -- about 4 weeks after I sent it.

Frustrating - a resounding yes. While the video production company truly has some problems, they are a mom and pop, small potatoes operation. Ice Network, LLC is not. The responsibility for developing, managing, operating and maintaining the exclusive, official website and interactive media properties of Ice Network is supposed to be under the control and administration of MLBAM (Major League Baseball Advanced Media), and they are far from neophytes in the production of web based programming. It just makes no sense whatsoever, given the information that we as consumers have been made aware of, why it has taken so long for the videos from Adult Nationals to be put up. It is also puzzling to see that they were able to encode videos of Russian Nationals performances, all the back stage interviews from Sr. Nat's, Evening of Champions, etc, but interestingly only 15 events from Adult Nationals has gone up to date. As you said, that was singular reason why many subsribed to the channel at all. I think all of us would just like them to be candid, and to give us a logical explanation for the delay.

I find the delay with Ice Network more disturbing than the videographer's, because Ice Network realistically should have the resources to make it happen, and to date they have simply have not. We have just had vague promises that there's more coming.......someday. So, I do believe that Ice Network does owe something back to its adult subscribers. At the very least, perhaps an apology and extension of the viewing rights contract.

Can someone explain what's the process of encoding involves? And, for that matter, why of all the other events, only Adult Nationals and Midwestern sections seems to be the only two groups with problems delivering the videos? Is it that Local Motions and CG Videos (or whatever the name of the Midwestern Sectionals videographer) are the only two vendors where they don't have up to date equipment to handle what icenetwork has? (I mean... did icenetwork have to do the encoding for the other two Adult Sectionals too? Or did the videographers have the right equipment where they can do and turn out the other two vendors faster?)

Or is this a logistics reason? I can't help but think that it's a combination of both. The other thing that makes me go "Hmmmm?" is whether USFSA and the MLBAM (who runs icenetworks.com) have a problem with their contracts with USFSA for NEXT year??? I seemed to recall something similar to this happened last year with MediaZone. Anyone knows the going ons about the current status of the business relationship between MLBAM and USFSA?

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Lutzlooploop, I can't agree with you more! Very well said. Here is my understanding of the situation. Local Motion did give the videos to IceNetwork quite awhile ago, and IceNetwork is "encoding" them. This is what Laura Fawcett told me in an email a few weeks ago.

I can't remember who told me this, but the LOC (and I don't know why it would be the LOC) of Mid-Westerns never gave IceNetwork the footage. This info might have come in the same email that Laura sent me. I pretty certain that it did.

I think that this point explains one reason why my perception of the service I've received from IceNetwork differs greatly from others. Although, as I've said, my primary reason for subscribing for IceNetwork was that I wanted to see my skates and those of my friends at adult sectionals and nationals, it was not the singular reason that I ended up signing up. In addition to my adult skating friends, I also have friends that skate the standard track events and by subscribing to IceNetwork I was afforded the possibility to watch their programs. From that perspective, there is no reason for me to feel cheated by the service I have received thus far. I have been spending plenty of time watching skating that I otherwise would not be able to watch.

Also, I don't think that much can be read into the fact that the skates from Russian nationals and the back-stage interviews from US Nationals have been posted. I believe that both of those events took place in January (maybe February) and that content from both of these events was posted just a couple of weeks ago. So there was plenty of lag time there. It wasn't like that content was posted immediately after each of these events took place. It seems that the delay in posting adult Mids and the remaining events at adult Nationals has been perceived as some sort of affront to the status of adult skating. Although everyone's entitled to come to their own conclusions, I dont' believe this is the case. It took about four months for IceNetwork to get that footage from Russian and US standard track senior nationals up so clearly there are issues with Icenetwork and the timeliness of their encoding of footage regardless of whether an event is an adult track or standard track event. It's entirely possible that there are other factors contributing to the delay in posting the adult Mids and adult Nationals vids that we do not know exist other than the implication that they don't seem to care about adult skating. This is where I can certainly agree with everyone else in saying that Icenetwork should be more communicative to clear up any such misconceptions.

I certainly have nothing to gain from defending the folks at IceNetwork. However, what I am saying is that I have made ample use of my subscription, I acknowledge that there are issues and am patiently awaiting resolution of these issues. If others feel cheated or slighted then by all means they should do what they feel is necessary to correct their own situations.

Frank:

I'm glad you are happy with your subscription to Ice Network, and have found it worthwhile.

I personally don't think the delay is some sort of nefarious plot to disrespect adult skating. Truthfully, they could put all the material up on June 29, 2007, and they would be fulfilling their contract. I doubt that many subscribers, regardless of how patient they may be, would be pleased with that outcome.

As to the additional materials, the point being made was that it undeniably took time and resources to encode that "extra" material, which arguably could have been used to process the "contracted" Adult Nationals footage.

Undeniably, a willingness to be more forthcoming and inform it subscribers as to the specific reasons for the delays in providing the footage from Adult Nationals would go a long way towards dispelling a large amount of the discontent being expressed here and other venues.

Hello, again, everyone,
Just wanted to put up another post and let you all know that we provided what USFS asked us for, which was duplicate camera master DVDs and sent them to Ice Network FEDEX. All of the West Rink events were sent during the week after ANs and the East Rink events were sent FEDEX several days later, so they have had all the footage for quite a while. We could have sent them encoded files, which we had, but they didn't want that. I have no idea why they have not posted the events.

As to the DVDs that we are dubbing to send out now of the ANs events, they will be with the scroll of the event name and skating order. The actual event footage is the same as if it were chaptered and had a menu. Also, you will all be pleased to know that we are going to go ahead and finish building the DVDs with all the bells and whistles. For anyone who feels they aren't getting what they paid for with the first DVDs we will send out, we will put a letter in with each DVD informing each of you that if you will e-mail us to let us know if you want us to mail the chaptered DVD when we finish them, we will be happy to send that to you. At least you will have something soon to watch and gather your friends around.

Customer service is and has always been our highest priority and sometimes, as humans do, we make mistakes and life gets in the way of our planned schedule. Again, we apologize for any inconvenience we have caused you, our valued customers, and in many instances, our friends. Mitchell truly thought he was going to have them finished and ready to mail out the end of May. Some things happened that then caused that not to be the case. He would NEVER lie intentionally. Those of you that really know us know that we take this business seriously and want to give our best at all times.

Please accept our apologies for the long wait.
Deb & Mitchell

Yes...agreed.

Deb/Mitchell,

At this point, when are you expecting to be mailing them out?

We are going out of town in two weeks and would need to make some arrangements if it looks like it might be arriving while we're gone.

Thanks!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

jazzpants: It's my understanding that I'm one of the only people who hasn't yet received my Mids DVD. Perhaps I'm wrong but all the skaters I spoke to locally have already received theirs. That's why I'm so irked. That, and I leave messages daily stressing the importance of getting this shipped to me since I'm moving away very soon. At least Local Motion has posted here and responded to our concerns. I can't even get CG Video to call me back! (and what's even sadder is one of the owners coached skating at a club I skated at as a teenager and she KNOWS me. . .that drives me nuts).

I don't suppose anyone else ordered a sweatshirt from AN that they haven't gotten yet either? I'm having the worst luck imaginable with skating merchandise this year.

__________________

"Without Vision the People Perish"
שלום לעולם תמיד

My son just called, and he said there was a dvd in our mailbox addressed to me and marked "skating".

Keeping my fingers crossed that when I get home, it is the AN dvd!

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown