I saw this on another list and don't know whether we have discussed it but I thought this warranted it's own thread. This is from the US figure Skating website:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/Shell.asp?sid=37811

Very interesting to see all of the proposed changes to our Moves system.

I'm sure skatingforums members will have lots to say about this!!

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Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

Lots of emphasis on twizzles there.

I also see loops (not the jump) are back. I've seen them in competition on TV a bunch this year and wonder if there's a connection.

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Bill Schneider

I've also seen a lot of them at *our* nationals.

Well, they're one of the turns/steps that count for a level feature in step sequences - skaters have to have a certain number of different (variety) steps and turns to achieve various levels.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Yay for spirals!

At least I might have something to look forward to in the distant future if another spiral pattern gets added.

Sounds like the Standard Track's answer to the skills jump of Adult Silver other were discussing, lol.

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Thank the skating gods that I've only got Senior MIF left!! I'd better get cracking and pass them ASAP, because those loops look like an exercise in torture. Is this on the slate for discussion at this year's Governing Council?

The only thing I really would support is the Juvenile spiral pattern. Juvenile MIF is too short of a test, and there's too long a gap between Prelim and Novice spirals.

My concern with making moves more difficult is that the harder they are to pass, the fewer skaters will stay in the sport because it takes too much to achieve the goal - a gold medal. 99% of skaters are not talented enough to ever reach elite competitive levels where this kind of footwork is required. I'm not opposed to introducing twizzles, but I think USFS needs to ask itself what and who these tests are really for.

wait, you mean you can tests MIF's without ever testing freestyle to go with it?

Yes, loops got added as an identified "turn" in footwork this year, so there's your connection. For variety there must be four different types of turns (three, bracket, counter, rocker, loop, twizzle are your options) and for complexity (must be achieved for L4) there must be 5.

Novice test here I come - before they change!

Correct. For example, you could be Juvenile Freestyle, but have passed your Senior MIF.

But you CANNOT test the freestyle without its equivalent MIF test.

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Rogue Element, Inc

I disagree. This kind of footwork is what is required for any event being judged under IJS, and as of now that's Juvenile.

These tests are still a million times easier than figures. I am so happy they are looking to bring back loops, even though it won't be until the senior tests. Loops are the ultimate test of blade control and IMO should be introduced sooner than senior, but beggars can't be choosers! In figures, forward loops are introduced in the 3rd test (equivalent to Intermediate) and back loops are introduced in the 4th test (equivalent to Novice).

Yes. MIF are required for Synchro as well and they don't have a FS test requirement. I know kids who are competitive skaters who passed Senior MIF and are Juv/Intermediate level FS.

From the USFSA's point of view, I think it's a great idea because it will make our skaters more competitive internationally. But from the point of view of a U.S. skater in local competitions, it just means everyone else will be able to do the difficult moves you've gone out of your way to master. Once everyone HAS to be able to do loops and change-edge spirals, they'll be worth nothing in competition and you'll have to find something even more difficult that isn't on the tests.

I'm sure the Junior men are going to be griping a LOT about the spirals on the Senior test. I wonder if the BO variation spiral needs to be a "difficult variation" or just a variation (like a fan spiral). If a difficult variation, they'll probably have to start stretching around the time they pass Novice. . .

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

I have to disagree with you too! (Sorry! ) What they are proposing in these MIFs are not difficult moves. They are only difficult because skaters today don't have the basics to build on to learn them anymore. (Read: figures.) This is an attempt to bring some of that building block back. They will still be worth something in competition -- exactly what they are worth now -- but just like jumps and spins, the judge is going to grade how well you do them, and not everyone will have the same quality.

The junior men have no gripe. There is already a very similar spiral move on the senior test; this is just a revision to incorporate a COE and a variation.

Obviously, I am thrilled that they are potentially incorporating these changes. The MIF tests need to be harder than they are now. Skaters are flying through them and moving up in their FS levels before they are really ready for that level. It's not figures, but it's something!

[/soapbox]

I don't actually disagree with the new moves being introduced, I was just trying to imagine who might not like them as much. I guess if the men already need to be at least somewhat flexible for the spirals on the current test, maybe the new ones won't be more than a slight increase in the nuisance they are already putting up with (since they don't do spirals in their programs).

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

It's the same reason I vehemently oppose putting a double axel on the Senior FS test. If you make the tests really difficult, you're going to have more skaters dropping out because of unachievable goals. How many skaters quit because they never could get their 3rd figure? Of course we don't want to dumb down a program just to keep skaters in the sport, but in all honesty, that's how the money is made and how the elite skaters are able to be supported. The vast majority of skaters in USFS are participatory/low-level competitive. What's up for discussion is, are these changes making the tests more unachievable? I think some of them are. I like the Juvenile spirals. I like the Intermediate twizzles. That's about it.

I think some of the problem is with judging standards. Some of the moves are very difficult when done properly - deep and proper edges, speed, etc. But I have personally witnessed passed tests where the skater can "do" the move, but it certainly isn't "mastered." No matter what's on the moves tests, there are always going to be skaters and coaches who just want to get them "out of the way" so they can concentrate on freestyle.

vesper, I think you nailed it on the head when you mention the can "do" versus "master". The only thing that can be done to correct that is that the judging standard overall needs to be more consistent so that a "can do it without falling" isn't the passing standard for some judges/areas while "performance and total mastery" is in others. How can that be fixed?

Yikes, some of those revisions are HARD! Counters straight into twizzles without putting a foot down, change edge spirals on both feet, and I don't even want to contemplate that loop pattern on senior... I'm all for increasing the difficulty of the moves tests to keep up with competition standards, but it would be hard on some of us who are pretty far along in the current system to suddenly have a bunch of moves we've never done before thrown in (change edge spirals on both feet, twizzles, and loops).

I know I'll be busting my butt twice as hard to test senior moves before these changes go into effect!

I don't think the purpose is to make the tests harder, I think the purpose is to adapt to a changing judging system and skating environment. The byproduct is that, yes, the test is harder. But I am having a hard time understanding what is so hard in these proposals that it makes the tests unpassable. All I see are basic skating moves -- that will, of course, take some effort to make presentable.

Those loops are COOL! I want to learn!

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3turn
The Great Skate Experiment

Here is a public reply by the Chair of US Figure Skating's Singles Committee back on August 3, 2007 about the changes proposed in the link posted at the beginning of this thread:

Thanks for posting that, Sylvia!

Does anyone know if the Singles Committee has made any action on the moves?

If (BIG if) I can find out anything definitive, I will post it here (it may not be until after U.S. Nationals is over).

But as vesperholly pointed out, not all skaters want to or plan to go to Nationals, Worlds, or the Olympics. In fact, from what I've seen, most teenagers who have been skating for a while (like since they were 6, 7, 8, etc) reach a point where they stop competing, b/c they're too old to be in Juv, at least at Regionals, (and wouldn't want to be in the lower levels that they've already spent years in) and aren't competitive in Intermediate or Novice or higher b/c they don't have 2axels or triples. So they keep practicing, test MIF and FS to complete the testing program, maybe take up dance (testing) or synchro, perform in club and rink shows, etc. The Test Track competition program was recently created specifically for these skaters, so the USFSA obviously realizes the money to be made by keeping these skaters in the sport and encouraging them to compete and test, even though they're not competitive in the higher 'standard' comp levels. And Test Track events (and Open Juv) do not use IJS.

My understanding is that figures were abolished not only b/c they made competitions difficult for the average viewer to understand (since the figures comp was never broadcast anyway) but b/c they discouraged skaters from staying in the sport (patch ice was hard to find and expensive, skills were very difficult). Some might say that was a cop-out, but if skating is going to be embraced by the masses, it has to be accessible. And there's nothing to stop elite-track skaters from learning figures (I think I read that Evan Lysacek tested most of the figures tests?).

As every skater (adult and kid) knows, achieving a test level does not make you competitive at that level. There are no 2axels and triples required on FS tests (thank goodness) but that doesn't mean that skaters who want to and can compete at the high levels don't practice them - they know they need those jumps to be competitive. It's the same way with footwork - if skaters want to achieve a Level 4, then they'll need to learn those skills, but that doesn't mean we should require everyone to learn them. Getting a gold medal in a testing track is not the same thing as getting a gold medal at Nationals or the Olympics, and everyone knows that. What the majority of skaters are shooting for is the satisfaction of completing a challenging (and do people really think the current Novice, Junior, and Senior MIF tests aren't challenging?) testing program and feeling good about their years in the sport. I agree with techskater that judging standards vary a lot, but that doesn't mean that the tests should be harder (and there will still be judging inconsistencies).

FWIW, I looked at the link at the time the response that Sylvia quoted was first posted, and I looked again today, and it seems like some of the moves are different. I remember more moves, that appear to be removed, and some new moves that I don't remember (like the Senior quick edge step and the Junior MIF change - does this mean counters will no longer be on Novice and instead on Junior? what moves are they replacing?). It's possible this may be their final proposal (or an updated work-in-progress one).

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!