I think you've nailed it, Daisies. Maybe it would be more fair to make it "no more than three different doubles"? Some people have an easier time with the flip and/or lutz than the loop. No matter...

"Never" is a very long time, NoVa - I wouldn't just rule them totally out, if I were you!

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I agree w/ Daisies and NoVa, the premise behind no 2 flip, 2 lutz and 2 axel is to get skater's to focus on edge quality, present, etc and to stop the disparity in points. Also to point out that skater's who have 2 flip and 2 lutz solid can be competitive at the Master's level. And just to mention this in passing a double toe-double toe is worth more than a 2 flip and you can do that at gold. You also need a double double to pass the Novice FS as well as the 2 loop, the limit makes it more fair but still allows for the accumulation of points via other routes.

While the men have clean double flips and lutzes at gold not a lot of the women do, I think a few years ago I saw some excellent attemps but not 100% clean jumps. The NJS counts any double w/ greater than a 1/4 cheat as a single.

I personally would just like to do a clean program w/ 2 or 3 doubles, all loop and below. That would make my day and scare the living day lights out of my coach.

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I think this rule is crazy!!! This will SIGNIFICANTLY even the playing field for the Championship Gold Men...with some skaters, you take away jumps and what is left?
Figure skating is supposed to be about advancement in terms of jumps , not going backwards!

The line between the Championship Gold Men and Championship Masters Men was already blurred - alot of the lower masters men , would probably have been only the bronze medalist in the gold event... to me, taking away the jumps is not going to really solve anything, because if you look at last year and this year, the people that won these events can jump jump jump because they were child skaters but not on ice... passing all the tests required for masters will take years. what does this rule solve?

I say let them all jump all the doubles!

Skating is supposed to be about more than the jumps. If you take away the jumps, there should be PLENTY left - good edgework, nice flow, solid spins - at the Gold level.

That's right, it's a skating competition, not a jumping competition. And once again, double doubles come into play w/ the NJS coming (GC?) then a double double will get more points than the pivot doubles. Of course good spins, higher level footwork, more transitions into jumps could also make the field much more interesting.

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so, because the past 2 years the man who won championship masters only had a double lutz combo and this year the man who won championship gold had a double lutz, they should weaken the technical content of the gold level?

The masters event is open to anyone who has passed their intermediate test. This includes people like Larry Holiday who once competed on an elite level. What will happen when more elite skaters like Larry compete in masters at adult nationals? You will then have one elite group doing triple jumps and another group that may have started as children but are able to do a double flip and double lutz that were pushed out of the gold group because they can do these jumps.. What kind of competition will this be and how fair is this?

They should then have 3 championship events...

Championship Gold - up to 2loop

Championship Masters - up to 2axel

Championship Ultra Masters - triple jumps

Something tells me that this wont happen.....

Not necessarily, there's Masters Novice, Junior and Senior and then Championship Masters.

So....this is just a projection of what could happen

Championship Gold max Double loop

Masters Novice no limit, but probably will see double flip, double lutz

Masters Junior no limit, double flip, double lutz, double axel

Masters Senior no limit, double flip, double lutz, double axel, triples

Championship Masters no limit for triples, double axel

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Masters novice , junior and senior is all good but people want to compete in Championship events... if elite skaters start showing up to the Championship masters events with triples, that leaves the "true" adult skaters who have a 2flip and 2lutz out of being competitive and no chance to ever medal. If these skaters pass their intermediate freeskating test,they are caught somewhere in the middle and there is no going back to Championship gold - ever.

O'dorf has at least considered this "I'm a very big kid now" option.

In the anouncement, it reads:

The organizers welcome the participation of former elite skaters. Appropriate “masters elite” event categories will be added to the competition for such skaters. Masters Elite Free Skating will follow the Masters Free Skating requirements.

But somehow, I don't think we'll be seeing folks like Amber Corwin at Adult Nationals (though I'd love to see her! Amber, don't put down the tiara just yet--come to Adult Nats!!! ).

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I would love to know how they're gonna catagorize "Masters Elite" skaters vs "Masters" skaters! (Like for instance, I would think (for example) giving Edward Van Campen's previous experience at Worlds that he would compete at "Masters Elite," yes?)

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Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Whether or not that's the rationale, I think it makes sense. While I can understand the frustration of the few Gold skaters who are landing or about to land double flips, I have to admit I cringe when I see skaters attempting difficult doubles when they don't have the overall skating skills to match.

What overall skating skills are considered to match double flips and double lutzes?? how do you categorize this?

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The skater's (standard track) that i've seen w/ 2flips and 2lutzes all have double doubles @ least one for the most part and all have lutz 2toe, flip 2loop and the like...these combinations are equal to 2flip and 2lutz in points and show a high level of difficulty and mastery especially if done well.

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Will Nationals eventually have this category making 3 championship events?

Will the USFS wait for elite skaters to show up and the rest of the masters "adult" skaters with only doubles will be screwed until the following year when they eventually make the change?

It doesn't seem like they are thinking too far ahead.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Amber show up in about 5 years to get the national title she has been searching for, so it will be amber with say a triple toe and a triple salchow competing against some of the adult ladies who were pushed out of championship gold.

I might be wrong, but didn't one of this year's masters ladies medalists medal at collegietes (sp) and another skated internationally as a junior?

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I don't think these changes will make things any more fair or unfair. I've been competing 3 years now in Masters events as an intermediate skater and never been all that competitive. We've needed a better division of levels in the Masters group now for years - in other words, it's always been 'unfair' :]