I was wondering how many people have taken all 3 of the pre-dance dances (dutch waltz, rhythm blues and c. tango) and have passed all 3? I was talking to another adult skater and she mentioned that rarely are all 3 dances passed on the 1st try even though they are just the pre-dance dances...

I took them when I was 9 and passed all three. This was in 1964.

I think it is VERY common to pass all three preliminary dances, in my experience.

I passed all three over the 1994-1995 season, when I was 10. (I did the Canadian Versions though)

The only way I think most don't pass the first 3 dances is if they quit doing dance before they finish the first 3 dances.

I know, I think, three people who have failed a prelim dance. One of them was an adult woman who struggles mightily with nerves and was more than capable of doing the dance under normal circumstances, and the other two were an adult team who were testing with each other instead of their coaches. Had they tested with coaches, they too would have passed easily.

By and large, I think most people do pass their prelims in one shot. It's an encouragement test, meaning that to fail it the judges have to feel that there are pretty consistant, serious errors. Since the dances aren't difficult, I think most failed prelims usually fail because of basic skating technique being iffy. I've trial judged a little, and some of the things that would make me think about failing a prelim dance would be consistant toe pushing, being noticeably off-time for most or all of the dance, a bent free leg on all the swing rolls, lots of problems with the tracking, etc. One of these things by itself would merit comments but not necessarily failing; more than one would maybe be grounds for failure. It would, of course, depend on the skaters' other strengths and weaknesses.

__________________
Shae-Lynn and Victor: We knew you were champions, and on 3/28/03 the whole WORLD found out! Thank you for twelve wonderful years!

I think maybe Txskater means to take all 3 dances at the same time & pass them all? i.e., same test session? Around here, it's pretty common to take all 3, & I also think it's common to pass all 3 the first time out. It is, as CanAmsk8ter pointed out, meant to be an encouragement test.

I took my first 6 (prelim. & pre-bronze) all together, & passed them all that day.

I took and passed the Prelim dances all in one day after only doing dance for about six weeks. I had been skating for six years before that, though. I also took and passed all the Pre-Bronzes together, and two Bronzes and a Bronze and Pre-Silver together.

In my area, most little kids will take two at one test session until they hit Bronzes, more because they can't remember the steps to three dances than they're not ready for the third.

I do know a woman who failed her Dutch Waltz and went on to get her Adult Gold dances.

I also passed all three of my prelims on one day. But the circumstances were not normal--I tested these dances after having skated for over 15 years. I learned and practiced them for four lessons, then tested them all on one day and passed. However, I don't see many of the young kids at our club test all of them at once. Most of them take them one at a time.

__________________
~No thinking, breathing, or hesitation!~

Not quite on topic ........ but in the UK we have to take 2 dances for each test, fail one dance and you fail the whole test and have to retake both dances next time even if you've 'passed' one of the dances

__________________

The best whisper is a click

I think you were misinformed. In my experience, it's the exact opposite. I've been skating for 8.5 years, and have only heard of 2 people failing a preliminary dance test. (out of probably over 100 tested)

I've very rarely seen any US Preliminary Dance tests marked Retry. In my experience, the skater has to have made some pretty serious errors throughout the test to get a Retry. Serious errors including....timing errors throughout the dance, very poor understanding of basic skating (i.e. toe pushes everywhere), and things like that.

I tested my Prelims about 25 years ago when the Swing Dance (US tempo) was still a Prelim, and I passed, even with having the mohawk rushed on at least 1 of the 3 patterns (I think we had to skate 3 patterns back then), and probably off-time on a second pattern. And I remember worrying that I was going to fail the Swing Dance.

In dance lessons this year (my first year) I learned the steps and danced 8 dances, Dutch Waltz to 10fox. I learned or tried to, bits and pieces of other dances too along the way (that Killian choctaw!!!) . However, I have a very exacting coach and only the dances that were perfect were allowed to test, and that was the three preliminary dances, I argued to do the Swing too, but three on one test day was enough. So, because the dances have to be more than perfect, I passed the three of them with goods and excellents (Canada). I worked my behind off to get those tests, I wanted to have good results. I'll probably only test Swing, Willow Waltz and Fiesta Tango next year although I will be working on the European.

I see kids fail the preliminary dances, and it's usually because the coach has put the test out with crossed fingers and it's not ready for testing. Sometimes its because that's when the test day is, and sometimes its poor coaching. Yes kids can fail the dutch waltz, our national lady in our club passed every test in her life on first try with the exception of one, the Dutch Waltz.

As Tashakat said in the UK the levels consist of two dances each which must both be passed to pass the test.

level 1 here is Novice Foxtrot -basically consisting of progressive (x-over), then swing roll to the left and then same to the right repeated all round the rink (surprisingly hard to do well!) plus the Rhythm Blues.

Level 2 is Dutch Waltz and Canasta Tango.

Most people here take levels 1 & 2 together. My coach makes us take them as solo dance tests and wont' skate with us in tests until the higher levels. In fact many skaters here only ever take the tests as solos due to the lack of guys and the thriving solo dance competition scene.

I took levels 1 & 2 together and passed

__________________
'skating is not just a sport - it is an obsession'

I took and passed all three Prelim dances in one session. I think it's very common for skaters to do that, and I also agree that these are encouragement tests and are kinda difficult to fail.

I went on to take and pass all three Pre-Bronzes together, all three Bronzes together, all three Pre-Silvers together and all three Silvers together. I won't be taking three dances at once anymore, though -- the Pre-Golds are kicking my butt! LOL!

That may be true at your rink, but it's not true at mine - people often do them fairly close together, but not at the same test session.

Way back when, when I tested, it was called Novice, and the dances were the Novice Foxtrot (then called the Prelim Foxtrot) and the Dutch Waltz. When they changed the system, I ended up being credited with Level 3 Bronze, which is the Golden Skaters Waltz and Riverside Rhumba - dances which, realistically, I would only have passed within the last year or so.

Back then, all levels above Novice had 3 dances, and you had to pass them all to pass, including at least one dance done solo.

__________________
Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

When I took my prelim before the change before the most recent change there were only two dances in that and in inter-bronze after that change. The old old prelim was Canasta Tango and Prelim Waltz (I think British Waltz).
I passed those just before the first change so I skipped a level and was credited with inter-bronze, so I was working on bronze which was the Bronze Foxtrot and the Fourteenstep. Then the most recent change skipped me over the Bronze Foxtrot as well so I am credited with level 5 (I think). So although the hardest dance I ever passed was the Prelim Waltz I should be working on the Willow Waltz and Fourteenstep, which is really way above my level so I can't compete at a realistic solo dance level.

Sorry for that detour off topic, I would think taking those three dances on the same day would be quite realistic if they were all at passing level.

I passed all three prelim dances on the same test session when I was in my early to mid thirties. I frequently help out at test sessions in my area, and it is very common to see all three prelims tested together, both kids and adults. Also the pre-bronze and bronze dances. It is also not all that rare to see one or more dance not pass. As some of the previous posters have stated, though, the dances themselves are usually not the problem. Occasionally you will see a skater who freezes up from nerves, but more often it's an issue with the skater's basic skating skills. Sadly, at least in my area, we are seeing more and more skaters who are being directed into dance for the wrong reasons (kids couldn't care less about dance, but synchro coach is requiring it; or "take dance...it's easier than freestyle"). Unfortunately too many of these skaters can't or won't put in the time and effort to put out good test dances; they just want to scrape by with the minimum and move on, dance forgotten as soon as it is passed. This has also resulted in more retrys in recent years.

By no means, however, am I saying that every skater who fails a test is not a good dancer or was not prepared. Anything can happen on any given day and sometimes things just don't click.

Ok, rant over. Sorry, but as a competitive dancer who loves dance and has worked very hard to get to my level (trying to finish the pregolds), it is frustrating to see people filling up test and practice sessions (and occasionally denying spots to serious, prepared skaters) when you know they really shouldn't be there.

Although I did all 3 preliminary dances in the same test session, one after the other actually, I wouldn't do it again and am already trying to figure out when to space the next bunch. Although I could do Fiesta, Willow and Swing one after the other, this time around I want to wear different dresses for each one. It's important to me to have the whole package and I want a waltz-y dress for the Willow. My coach thinks I'm nuts but that's the perk of being grown up, I can make some decision of my own.

I know, there will come a day where I will be stuck on some dance and instead of passing 3 in a year, will take 3 years to pass one!

I passed all three of mine in a row.
They aren't hard to pass and it isn't really that rare.

WEll.... I'm the exception to you guys. The only dances I passed the first time were the Dutch Waltz and the Willow. Everyone else took two to three times to pass which drove me crazy since they all felt the same (good) when I did them. I'm working on the European now so we'll see how that goes. Hope springs eternal that I might just get it the first time around!
Of course it will take me forever to pass my Jr bronze free skate also so I guess I really wont' worry about it that much.

Liz.. who is just really slow at learning anything on the ice but it's an interesting and challenging journey!

Thanks for all the input. I've been working on the Dutch Waltz and Rhythm Blues and am testing these at the end of July. We've worked on other dances in my dance class but not in private lessons. I was wondering why but he is rather demanding so I'll leave the decision on what should be tested up to him. One of the other ladies in my class took all 3 dances several weeks ago (she does not take privates from him, only the class) and passed 2. She wants to "hurry up and test" but my coach mentioned that unless you get the proper technique, it will catch up to you soon or later and I figure he has competed at the world level, so he should know what he's talking about... So it's on with the blues !!!

I'm not surprised a "hurry up & test" skater who only takes class lessons didn't pass a test. Your coach is correct about getting the proper technique from the start. It'll save you a ton of trouble later.

Just that; but you also had to do a Prelim/Novice Foxtrot solo. They didn't have an inter-bronze in those days, and Bronze was Bronze Foxtrot, 14-step and European waltz, with one of those to be done solo, at the judges' discretion (and, of course, they always asked you to do the one which you were weakest in).

__________________
Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

AMEN!!! Well put.

Judging from your screen name, I'm guessing you're from Texas... otherwise, I'd probably be asking you if we have the same coach! I'm working on my last Silver dance, but we still do technique work at every single lesson, and I'm expected to do my exercises on my own every time I get on the ice too. Even days I skate twice, I have to do them both times. But, in four months with him I know I've improved tons. I've passed the dance I was stuck on and could probably take my next one now with a decent shot at passing. But my coach's perspective is that "good enough" isn't good enough if I'm capable of better. Our goal is to have scores above the passing average (which I didn't on my last test, but I got really good comments from a panel of very tough judges, so we were fine with that).

Back to the original question, beginning dancers around here generally fall into one of two categories: good freeskaters just turning to dance, and beginnerish adults just starting dance. The former usually take and pass all three prelims at once. (My best friend, an Intermediate freeskater, recently took and passed all three Prelims and her Swing Dance at the same session). They usually do the same thing a month or two later with the Pre-Bronze, and then maybe three months or so later with the Bronze. At the Pre-Silver they usually take the 14Step and the Foxtrot together and the European separately, because around here most skaters fail the European at least once.

Adult beginners, OTOH, are more likely to take one or two dances at a time right from the start, which makes sense to me- as beginners, they're probably spending some lesson time working on technique and maybe don't have time to prepare three dances at once. Of course, it depends on the coach too; some coaches prefer to focus on one or two dances at a time and some would rather work all three and take them at once, even if it means not being ready to test quite as soon. Of course, in an area that doesn't hold test sessions frequently, maybe rushing to get all three ready while there's an opportunity to test makes sense. As long as they get passed eventually and the skater does develop good technique, I say go with whatever works for you and your coach.

__________________
Shae-Lynn and Victor: We knew you were champions, and on 3/28/03 the whole WORLD found out! Thank you for twelve wonderful years!

CanAmSkater
I fall into the freestyle skater starting to ice dance as my knees (age wise) just can not take the pounding of jumping any more, although I still enjoy spinning... I've passed my Adult silver freeskate and took but failed my juvenile moves (those horrid power 3's in a CW direction!!!). I am finding that I definitly get more of a work-out with ice dancing than with freestyle... As for exercises, each time I skate (3-4 times aweek), I spend 1/2 of a session (an hour long) doing different MIF/Dance exercises. In the time that I've been taking this class (since Feb) and private lessons (since April), I can honestly say I feel alittle more comfortable skating in a CW direction... I must say that I am also enjoying this aspect of skating that I previously did not have much to do with. Maybe, it's getting older or just having a cute dance instructor?

This is one of my favorite misconceptions about dance. Ice dance, if done properly, is really hard on your knees. Why do you think ice dancers have boots that allow more ankle flexion? Dancers get waaaay down into their knees, with lots of rise-and-fall action, so the knees take a lot of pressure. Not the same kind of pressure as jumping, but it's just as hard on them.