Just to let any Australian skaters know that the Oakleigh Rink in Melbourne has ceased operations as of today due public liability insurance and being unable to obtain it.

I am incredibly depressed. The other rink in Melbourne at Ringwood is quite a distance for me to travel to and does not have any suitable times. Basically this means that myself, along with quite a few others,

I will be forced to give up ice skating, unless the rink can get insurance or government assistance.

I am not sure how many other rinks in Australia are affected by this. Please let me know by PM.

Just another nail in the coffin for Victorian Figure Skating.

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That sounds awful - I think you need to go on a factfinding mission to try to find a solution ...

For example,
Why were they refused public liability insurance?
How can these factors be overcome?
Why is the rink in Ringwood continuing to operate?
Or is it just an excuse to close the rink because it is not profit-making?
If it is not profit-making, can you get sponsorship or turn it to profit somehow?

Good luck!

Jasmine

I am not sure where you live but in Australia there is a big issue with public liability insurance at the moment. Basically many insurance companies have just stopped providing this type of insurance and many companies who provide activities similar to ice skating have been unable to obtain insurance. Otherwise the insurance providers have raised premiums so high it is becoming unaffordable. So the rink is not the only one affected by this. September 11th has been used as the excuse. This has also affected school fetes and other activities. Even companies who have never made claims have been refused insurance.

As for the Ringwood rink - there are suspicions that they don't have insurance but please don't quote me on that.

So we do know why it has happened. It is now a case of them being able to obtain it.

BTW - the issue has received heaps of publicity in the media which is amazing for a type of sport (including hockey and speed skating) that normally gets no coverage.

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Won't the skating federation & some of the big hockey programs step in & help out with this? We have so many rinks in my area now, it seems like there's one on every other corner. But I remember when we used to have to drive an hour each way in the summer to get to a practice. That's too bad.

Unfortunately this rink is privately owned and operated. The clubs hire the use of the ice from the rink. However even if the rink let the clubs use it then who is going to pay the insurance cover for the zamboni drivers plus the rest of the facilities. The rink is not prepared to let the clubs do this because they are not indemnified. It is very complicated.

The only way that it will be saved is an insurance company will be willing to provide the rink with insurance.

As I said the ice rink is not the only company or organisation with insurance problems.

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[quote:9a88adfd53="Artistic Skaters"]Won't the skating federation & some of the big hockey programs step in & help out with this? We have so many rinks in my area now, it seems like there's one on every other corner. But I remember when we used to have to drive an hour each way in the summer to get to a practice. That's too bad. [/quote:9a88adfd53]

Artistic Skaters,

In Aus there isn't really "big hockey programs"!! Unless, ofcourse it's field hcokey where we are the world champions! The Winter sports here don't get much money or coverage and the skating federation probably doesn't have enough money to bail Oakleigh out, ISA (Ice Skating Australia) is nothing like what you guys have in the US! The skaters here don't get much funding, there just isn't the call for it in Winter sports. And it is much harder if the rink is private managed and owned like at Oakleigh.

Aussie Willy, I emailed you, hope the government and the public stands behind you and the rink gets the insurance. Nothing like that has happened here, if it did I'd have to drive to Sydney! Have the ISA had anything to say?

I wonder if there may be a solution in getting the public to buy individual insurance along with their ticket? In Europe, when you just take a day of half-day's skiing, this is done at your own risk, but you can buy insurance from the lift pass office supplied by Carte Neige or Snow Card. Perhaps you could contact the Australian Ice Skating Federation to discuss this?

Jasmine,

I think at most rinks this is what happens already (everyone pays insurance as part of the ticket price) but now because of the insurance crisis Aus is in (everywhere, hospitals, beaches, fetes etc, the insurance has increased 700% in some cases because claims are so high) the ticket price would be so high that the rink probably still can't make a profit because noone could afford to go. It's really sad, and harder because Oakleigh is privately owned and operated.

I did hear it on the news (radio) though and it looks like corporate sponsors might be an avenue Oakleigh could look at, as well as government funding maybe? Hope it all works out for you Victorians, have fun in Bendigo Aussie Willy.

Well there is some hope. The rink are talking to an insurance company and hopefully we might have some news next week. We all have our toes and fingers crossed.

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[quote:9781004607="Aussie Willy"]Well there is some hope. The rink are talking to an insurance company and hopefully we might have some news next week. We all have our toes and fingers crossed.[/quote:9781004607]

I do hope it works out; keep us posted!

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Just to let those who are interested know that the rink got it's insurance and opens again this Saturday. We are all happy little skaters now.

Time to celebrate and get drunk!!!!!

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[quote:1081ac6afd="Aussie Willy"]Time to celebrate and get drunk!!!!![/quote:1081ac6afd]

Is that all you Aussies think about: drinking, partying, and playing in the Outback? Next thing you'l be telling me is that you carry boomerangs on your hip while you skate and offer 'roos ice time.

Very glad to hear your problem is at least temporarily resolved. It's amazing what a little media coverage can stir up.

If it happens again, I'd push for some corporate sponsorships. You'd be amazed what large corporations will sponsor. All they want is customer recognition and advertising in return. Sounds fair to me.

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gary - LOL - didn't you know we have skating kangaroos and wombats in Australia? They make up most of the ice hockey players.

However there has been a really nasty side to this whole rink debacle.

The other rink in Melbourne has been extremely unwelcoming of any other figure skaters. People who normally skated at our now re-opened rink were basically refused permission to skate in the figure sessions at the other rink. We only have a small figure skating community but why they were so precious about it I just don't know. Even those who skated in the public session were made to feel very unwelcome, not just by the coach who runs the figure skating program there but also by the rink management.

Anyway our rink is open again and we are happy. It is just if this other rink gets into a similar crisis it will be interesting to see what happens then. It will come back to bite them in some way for sure, if not tomorrow then sometime in the future.

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I'm discovering that the rink "rivalry" you describe is not uncommon. We have a dozen rinks in the St. Louis area and most prefer not to help skaters from another rink. They get so caught up in their own skaters and programs that the only time they "invite" other skaters in is when they're trying to coerce them to join their club or team.

Fortunately, one of my coaches is also program director at her rink. She's VERY open with the other rinks and coaches. She refuses to have either a USFSA or ISI club at her rink as it becomes too political. She runs her programs with a balance of public, hockey, and figure skating sessions which include an adult only public session every Monday night (my favorite). Any coach could approach her about using the ice for lessons and she would be most helpful. Her rink has the best ice in the area, the best coaches, and promotes good, fun skating for all disciplines: figure, speed, & hockey (all of which she skates personally).

Because of these "rivalries", there are several rinks where I refuse to skate. They make you feel unwelcome.

[quote:2c913bbb46="Aussie Willy"]Just to let those who are interested know that the rink got it's insurance and opens again this Saturday. We are all happy little skaters now.

Time to celebrate and get drunk!!!!![/quote:2c913bbb46]

Delighted to hear it - bring on the champagne!!!!

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~~~~~~~~
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[quote:61a20fbc43="garyc254"]Fortunately, one of my coaches is also program director at her rink. She's VERY open with the other rinks and coaches. She refuses to have either a USFSA or ISI club at her rink as it becomes too political. She runs her programs with a balance of public, hockey, and figure skating sessions which include an adult only public session every Monday night (my favorite). Any coach could approach her about using the ice for lessons and she would be most helpful. Her rink has the best ice in the area, the best coaches, and promotes good, fun skating for all disciplines: figure, speed, & hockey (all of which she skates personally).[/quote:61a20fbc43]
Having a USFSA club of ISI team at a rink is not what makes it political. It's the leadership, including the rink management & skating director, not only a club or team, that makes it political or sets the tone for a cooperative atmosphere. Personally having been involved in both ISI & USFSA programs, I would consider rinks that refuse to offer opportunities with these groups as not serving the needs of their figure skating community because things like testing are an integral part of it. The rinks where I skate offer both & have nicely run programs. The USFSA & ISI programs are not the cause of discord at local rinks, it's usually certain groups of parents & coaches who can't & won't get along with others.

I have to say you are fortunate to be in a position where you can have rink rivalry. Unfortunately here because of the attitude of this coach who runs the figure session, it basically meant that if our rink was unable to get insurance then most of us would have had to give up skating altogether because we would not be welcome at this other rink and because there are no other skating facilities nearby.

We are not such a large skating fraternity in Melbourne that skating can afford to have this happen.

Actually a friend of mine who skates at Junior level was thinking about boycotting this year's state championships because they are being held at the "nasty" rink and she has been treated poorly by them in the past. Last year when she trained there for the state competition (because our rink was closed for repairs) she was not even able to play her music on the sound system.

BTW - the coach in question used to skate pairs with Elena Bechke back in 84 so some of you might remember him.

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[quote:0717020598="Mazurka Girl"] Having a USFSA club of ISI team at a rink is not what makes it political. It's the leadership, including the rink management & skating director, not only a club or team, that makes it political or sets the tone for a cooperative atmosphere. Personally having been involved in both ISI & USFSA programs, I would consider rinks that refuse to offer opportunities with these groups as not serving the needs of their figure skating community because things like testing are an integral part of it. The rinks where I skate offer both & have nicely run programs. The USFSA & ISI programs are not the cause of discord at local rinks, it's usually certain groups of parents & coaches who can't & won't get along with others.[/quote:0717020598]

I agree that it's not having the clubs per se, it IS the certain groups of parents and coaches as in most sports. Unfortunately, those groups are in almost every club.

You're talking to the wrong guy about testing. I've seen the local judges in action and wouldn't submit myself to their scrutiny. As with the clubs, there are a few that use their judging roles to play politics. So why would I want to pay money to possibly have judges I don't trust decide if I'm good enough to advance across an imaginary line of experience?

It's the ability to perform, not the judging slip, that proves the skater.

If a skater that has never tested, tried out for Miami/Ohio's precision team and outskated everyone on the team, would the team refuse to let that person on because she/he hasn't tested? If regulations say they can't, then the regulations need to be changed.

Sorry, I'm on my bandwagon. I'm bad about that.

Sorry if I sounded so negative in my previous reply.

I love my skating and most of the people I've met through skating. But there are some people that make being in clubs difficult. Not all, but often enough. Too much back-biting and gossip.

I am a USFSA member, but only so I can utilize club ice time (which isn't cheap) for one of my lessons. Had that not been the only time and rink I could get a lesson with this particular coach, I wouldn't have had any need to join the club.

I've met too many wonderful people through skating (like the ones on this forum) that it outweighs most of the negatives brought on by the few.

There are a lot of hard working volunteers in USFSA/ISI skating who are involved for the right reasons & perhaps you should meet some more of them, including judges, before making such blanket generalizations because of some individuals. I have learned from all my time at the rink that the clubs are not the cause of obnoxious skaters & parents at the rink. The difficult people earn that reputation all on their own & their affiliations don't really have anything to do with it.

The example about Miami U synchro is a moot point because the skater would already need to be tested to a specific level in order to even qualify & apply for the tryout. I agree with USFSA's or any team's decision to set those specifications because it ensures they aren't wasting their expensive ice & tryout time & keeps things productive for their team. There's always going to be any number of moms who think their kid has outskated everyone on the team. That's why there is a definitive standard available to measure skill quality. Skaters who are not interested in testing to the standard also make the choice not to qualify & compete in events when that is one of the requirements.

[quote:db0570370d="Mazurka Girl"]Yes, it does sound negative. There are a lot of hard working volunteers in USFSA/ISI skating who are involved for the right reasons & perhaps you should meet some more of them, including judges, before making such blanket generalizations because of some individuals. [/quote:db0570370d]

Actually, I am personal friends with a USFSA Judging Chairperson and National judge and have met several national and international judges and know the hours of dedicated time they put in. I also know a number of club volunteers and realize their hearts are in the right places. And most coaches I know, including a World Gold Medalist - Pairs, are terrific people and instructors.

I tried not to make my comments generalizations. I simply stated "some of" and that is the case with parents, coaches, judges, skaters, etc.

Like the judge that didn't feel like doing tests one day and just passed everyone sight unseen. A coach turned him in and he got caught.

Or the judging team that passed a skater that made three fatal errors.

Or the dad who told his daughter who had failed one of the two dance tests she took "You're lucky you passed the one test, you skated so badly. If it wasn't for me, you wouldn't have passed that test." Dad was known to regularly wine & dine the top local judges one of which is also a national level judge.

Or the synchro coach that refuses to give private lessons to any of her adult team members that move on to a more advanced team. Her attempt to control her students. They are afraid of her.

I can also state some very positive people and incidents that have made skating worthwhile. If not for them, the ice wouldn't be fun.

In fact, my girlfriend is a USFSA club president.

According to your arguement about testing, a skaters ability isn't what is important, it's the certification that counts. Qualification in performance vs. qualification on paper. Hmmmm!

I don't think Vicky Korn at Miami U would turn down an exceptional skater just because she/he hasn't had the opportunity to come through the testing ranks, however unlikely that would be.

Don't get me wrong and think I'm trying to stir up an angry disagreement. This is actually a very interesting debate. I've had similar with several of my skating friends, club members and not.

FYI: I'm 48 years old and don't have any children that skate, so I'm not looking at this from the "skating mom's" point of view.

This may not be the best venue for this debate. If you think not, PM me and I'll give you my e-mail address.

Olympic Advice

"I reconciled myself to the fact that I may walk out of Olympic arena impressing no one but myself. I was no longer competing for them. I worked on the Dinner Roll with myself in mind ... I'm not saying go for fourth place, but be free in the way you measure your success. Don't let it depend on awards, money and other validations. You should own your own happiness."
-- Jonny Moseley, 1998 Olympic champion, freestyle moguls

[quote:fd9a90f3e2="garyc254"]According to your arguement about testing, a skaters ability isn't what is important, it's the certification that counts. Qualification in performance vs. qualification on paper. Hmmmm![/quote:fd9a90f3e2]
What you said above is not what I thought Mazurka Girl was saying at all. Funny how we all read things differently. When you find a pre-prelim skater with a ton of talent & some triples, buy her a membership in your girlfriend's club, & let us all know when she gets to sign up to skate at Nationals against seniors like Sasha & Michelle without ever taking a test. :wink: Progressing through the levels is part of the process of the sport, isn't it similar to the same theory as to why you can't just walk off the streets to play the final at Wimbeldon or why you have to be Level 10 (is that right?) to do elite Nationals in gymnastics?

Hey Aussie Willie, great news for you. I'll have a cold one (ice cold) in honor of your return to your old rink!

[quote:2888ec92fc="Artistic Skaters"] When you find a pre-prelim skater with a ton of talent & some triples, buy her a membership in your girlfriend's club, & let us all know when she gets to sign up to skate at Nationals against seniors like Sasha & Michelle without ever taking a test. :wink: [/quote:2888ec92fc]

Neither will thousands and thousands of other current pre-prelim skaters or for that matter, gold level skaters that WILL be testing. :wink:



[quote:2888ec92fc="Artistic Skaters"] Progressing through the levels is part of the process of the sport, isn't it similar to the same theory as to why you can't just walk off the streets to play the final at Wimbeldon or why you have to be Level 10 (is that right?) to do elite Nationals in gymnastics? [/quote:2888ec92fc]

Progressing through the levels entails learning and being able to perform the requirements of those levels, not necessarily testing them (except by the regulations made by the organizations that are charging money for their validation).

My point is, if a skater can perform all of those requirements and has never tested, does that mean that they really aren't able to perform those requirements? Just because you haven't tested it means you aren't able to do it?

If I could regularly land quads, wouldn't coaches and teams be clamoring to get me to join them even if I have never tested?

Coaching could teach me to land quads, not testing.

(I can't even land a Waltz jump, yet)

[quote:d070cd8521="garyc254"]My point is, if a skater can perform all of those requirements and has never tested, does that mean that they really aren't able to perform those requirements? Just because you haven't tested it means you aren't able to do it?[/quote:d070cd8521]
I haven't read here where anyone has said just because you haven't tested it means you aren't able to do it. So on that note, I'll get off the thread now since there's evidently some kind of communication breakdown.

Except of course, no communication breakdown regarding the original topic which was Aussie Willy's rink.