The updated WBP requirements for Bronze through Masters have been posted:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/New_Judging.asp?id=313

An interesting thing I noticed - the WBP for Bronze and Silver singles now allow a spiral sequence to be counted as the step sequence. Before, the only step sequences listed were straight-line, circular, and serp. Spirals weren't listed in the step sequence requirements until Gold and Masters. Is this a typo, or did the rule actually change and will a spiral sequence count as the step sequence in Bronze and Silver? And if a skater does a spiral (1 edge) as a transition early in their program, and then a step sequence later, does that mean that the spiral gets counted as the step 'sequence' (which would be incomplete b/c the spiral wouldn't cover half the ice) and the actual steps would only be counted as transitions? I believe with Gold and Masters the past two years, whichever came first was the "step sequence", correct?

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Last year silver and bronze also had the requirement as spiral OR step sequence.

As for what "counts" if you have more than one, since it's under 6.0 it isn't that big of a deal. My silver program has both a change of edge spiral that covers half the ice surface, and a step sequence that covers about 3/4 of the ice surface. Actually, I have another spiral at the end that probably hits half the surface, too. They can count what they want, I guess, although my step sequence, which is all rockers, counters, twizzles and loops, is a lot harder than a change of edge spiral. If we were IJS, we'd specifiy on our program sheets what would be counted and the other would just be a transition.

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2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

True, under 6.0, it's not a big deal, since they are looking at the program as a whole and not adding up points for specific elements. But in case you end up skating under IJS, the official rule is that if you have both a step sequence and spiral sequence, the first one you do is the one they will count. A spiral sequence is whenever you do more than one spiral position (fairly close together, without any listed elements between them). A spiral with change of edge and spiral with change of free leg position each count as two positions because a new position is created whenever you do a change of edge, position, direction or foot.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Not only last year, but at least since 2005 because I have been doing a spiral sequence since then per the rules.

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This might be a dumb question. When it says Max 5, that does mean 5 jumping passes, not 5 jumps, correct?

Yes, 5 passes. If you max this out, the most jumps in the program would be 9. Eg.:
Pass 1 = jump
Pass 2 = jump
PAss 3 = jump/jump
Pass 4 = jump/jump
Pass 5 = jump/jump/jump

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

Was a combo jump a required element at Bronze before? That seems a bit odd to me to have it as a requirement.

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

I hate that they keep watering down the Gold level! Pretty soon they won't allow any double jumps at all!

I think this was a bad decision IMHO

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Why are you skating so slowly? Get out of my way!

If you skate faster, it makes everything look better!

Why? I think it is one of the smartest decisions that has been made in adult skating. The skill levels between gold and masters - especially in the ladies - was just too huge of a jump for people to make.

Previously, if you had a 2sal, 2 toe and 2loop, for instance, you would not be competitive at masters - yet you would probably be winning gold year after year after year. Your only option if you wanted to compete at the championship level would be to stay at gold. What's the challenge in that?

Now, those skaters have somewhere to move to that has a championship level attached where they will still be competitve and can grow their skating. Meanwhile, those still in gold will have an attainable place to move to as they gain more doubles - and those who cannot gain doubles due to age or other issues can still have a chance to be competitive in gold. They won't eliminate doubles altogether from gold, because that still differentiates it from silver.

It's a win, win, win, as I see it.

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

Exactly!

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Rogue Element, Inc

Are you in Gold? How many doubles do you have, and why would it bother you to move up to Masters Intermediate/Novice?

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

skater1964, you took the words out of my fingers!

musicskatefan, do you know how many skaters move up from Gold to Masters and actually make Champ in the old Champ Masters level? Did you look at any data before making your statement?

And when someone comes next year and lands clean 1a,2t combo and 1a, half loop,2sal combo in gold will those be banned as well?

What is the MISSION of adult skating? Is it to make EVERYONE a MASTERS skater?

Compare what an adult single skater who passes 8 tests(4moves, 4 freestyles) is allowed to do to a standard track skater who passes the same number of tests.

So we tell the adults after you have spent all that money and time on 8 tests you dont have the same ability to do what the standard track students can do. You have to take what at least 4 MORE standard tests.....People would be better off to take the standard track tests to begin with.


I think we are just promoting that the ADULT TRACK does not give an adult the skills to do more difficult elements.

So I guess this is written down somewhere?

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Why are you skating so slowly? Get out of my way!

If you skate faster, it makes everything look better!

The mission is to get adults to participate. The new level was to create a better transition from Championship Gold to Championship Masters. ChGold skaters aren't moving into ChMasters, or not competing at all, because of the leap in competitive skill. IMO, this division solves the problem perfectly. Why the vitriol?

Where is that written down?

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Why are you skating so slowly? Get out of my way!

If you skate faster, it makes everything look better!

The fact is, skaters at every level on the adult track already tend to do program elements that are much closer to their test level than the standard track skaters do. For example, the top Juvenile skaters at Jr. Nationals land one or two clean double axels, while the adult equivalent--Gold--are landing double salchows and only rarely a double toe or double loop (I invite you to look through all of the Gold IJS scoresheets from AN2008, for both the ladies and the men). This was already the case even before the rules were changed, so there are very few adult skaters who will actually find themselves limited by this. However, there are a number of skaters who will now have a chance to place decently if they move up one level, and that is something that is good for everyone.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

In the RFA. Check the Combined Report of Action.

JMHO, I was personally dissapointed the double loop got moved, since it was a consistent jump for me, albiet a little cheated. And I know I'll never be able to do a double toe. But the fact that the new levels create so many more opportunities for all adults to keep competing and challenging themselves far outweights that for me. I think it's a great thing.

MusicSkateFan, how would you like the Gold level to be, just out of curiosity?

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IMHO I think a better solution would be the number of double jumps and not the type. If someone were to do a double, double combo then that would limit any more doubles they could do. Jumps are not an entire program, but the skater should be able to choose what doubles they want to do.

I would think people would be more interested in limiting spins! Under COP certain spins are worth far more than a double loop! And you can get hurt trying to do difficult spins just as much as a double loop or double flip.

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Why are you skating so slowly? Get out of my way!

If you skate faster, it makes everything look better!

It was last year. Can't speak for before that since I wasn't competing in freestyle but I imagine it has been for a long time.

Why does it seem a bit odd? In my group at ANs, most (if not all) of us had more than one combo. A combo (albeit only a waltz toe) is required to pass bronze free.

I think everyone will be happy after the level change has a year or two to sink in. With 3 champ events now (gold, masters int/novice and masters jr/sr), there will be more participation, more appropriate breakdown of levels, better flow from one level to the next for those moving up--not just the progression of jumps but also better progression of program time. Going from 2:40 to 3:40 was a huge change before, but 2:40 one season to 3:10 the next is much better. Some of those intermediate/novice skaters who are very good skaters but don't have the jumps or spin combos to be competitive with the junior/seniors have a place where they can place well and compete at their own level.

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2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

My bad. I was thinking that a combo didn't show up in the tests until Silver, and was perplexed as to why they'd have it in WBP when it isn't on the test.

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

I don't think you can automatically say that the new divided Masters events are going to have more competitors.

So many things come into play for Adult Nats. Jobs, Families, time of year, location, injuries.

I think these factors come into play with the number of competitors first.

I had posted in a previous thread I beleive 11 or even more Men scratched from Adult Nats in just the Bronze and Silver Freestyle events. This had nothing to do with the event categories....it probably had to do with these other issues.

Creating a New event is not going to automatically create new competitors.

If your going to start DIVIDING everything...Are we going to have Pre-Silver and Pre-Gold events for Freestyle? There are various levels of ability and experience in the low levels as well!

I say..do what you can do but for god's sake do it fast and get off the ice!

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Why are you skating so slowly? Get out of my way!

If you skate faster, it makes everything look better!

Masters skaters may all seem the same to you, but that category encompasses 4 levels: Intermediate, Novice, Junior and Senior. If you've ever watched a standard track competition, you've seen what a big difference that is. Having a Championship Masters competition that combined those 4 levels was the equivalent of having a combined Championship Adult competition for all skaters in Pre-Bronze, Bronze, Silver and Gold. Would you like that if you were a Pre-Bronze skater?

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Throwing my nickel in... I for one am glad for the limitation. I do see within my lifetime to land my double sal, double toe and axel. But I really really REALLY doubt I would go behind that at my age. Jumps are hard on the body. (Case in point... me and my lower back have a quota on jumps before it starts hurting!!!) Having that limit on Gold ensures that an older skater like me would have a chance to compete at Champ Adult Gold. It would also ensure that the skaters who medal year after year after year has a place to grow into instead of freakin' out about moving up b/c they don't have their triples and are afraid of competing with the guys with the triples.

BTW: I sense from this change that the thing that separate the girls from the women (or the boy from the men) in the Gold level is gonna be the spins and the in-between skating!!! Should be quite interesting to watch.

MSF: I seriously doubt that the purpose of splitting up the groups is intended to be to increase the number of skaters. I think in the end it's money, work, family, etc. and I think in the end, this is something that is out of the control of USFSA. If you want new skaters... I suggested starting from the skaters that are JUST starting to skate now... 1) make it affordable, and 2) encourage more BEGINNING skaters to move up into the fold and for the existing ones to move up.

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

MSF: I seriously doubt that the purpose of splitting up the groups is intended to be to increase the number of skaters. I think in the end it's money, work, family, etc. and I think in the end, this is something that is out of the control of USFSA. If you want new skaters... I suggested starting from the skaters that are JUST starting to skate now... 1) make it affordable, and 2) encourage more BEGINNING skaters to move up into the fold and for the existing ones to move up.[/QUOTE]


I agree. I think the leap from beginning adult skater to entering the whole USFS adult track is somewhat intimidating. I know that I resisted it for a while, thinking that I just wanted to work on my skating and was really scared of the whole testing/competing thing. It took a lot of convincing for me to want to take the plunge and go the competitive route. I have a lot of time constraints and didn't think I could commit. (Of course, now I seem to schedule the entire rest of of my life around skating!) I also agree that the new levels might encourage skaters of all levels to move up. If some of the top Gold skaters move up to masters, then some of the stronger Silver skaters may feel more comfortable moving up to Gold, and so on. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Regarding the jump limitations, I'm a little on the fence on this one. I'm currently working on double toe loop, double salchow and double loop, and they are all progressing at about the same level (inconsistent and underrotated). If the only double I can really get is the loop, I'll be disappointed that I can't use it if/when I move up to Gold, but it will just make me work on the other ones even harder. At this point in my skating, landing doubles is the least of my concerns - the non-jumping parts need much more work anyway.