Just curious.......what exactly does your coach do for you at competitions? What makes you feel like they have earned their fee?

I'm frustrated with my coach right now, so I want to know what others are getting out of their coaches at competitions.

A good coach will can calm your nerves, get you organized beforehand, guide your warm-up, hold your stuff (guards, water bottle, jacket), and provide you with fair insight after your performance. I like to have my coach there so we can talk about what I did well, what I need to work on, and gauge my progress. Coaches can provide constructive criticism because it is their job and you expect it from them. Sometimes if friends put you out, they don't want to say anything mean to make you nervous or feel bad afterwards, so you won't get the truth from them ("You were so graceful when you fell on that toe loop"). My coaches both charge the price of one lesson when they stand with you at a competition.

A bad coach shows up late, doesn't seem to pay any attention to you in warm-up or during the event, or care how you did. They probably won't care to discuss the competition afterwards, either.

I don't particularly like competing without my coach, but I've done it several times and it wasn't disastrous. The worst part about that is not having someone who really knows you and your skating around to console or congratulate.

Jocelyn

Tangent: I actually prefer to compete without a coach. I know; I'm weird. Having a coach there makes it seem like a Big Deal, and I skate better when I tell myself it's just another skate.

But as for the original question, I think a good coach typically does these things for a competition:

** Before anything** reads the @#$%&! competition announcement and makes sure the skater is entered in the right events and that their program adheres to the requirements in the announcement!!!!! (You'd be amazed. sigh.)

1. Attends agreed-upon practice sessions and actively coaches during them. If the skater has multiple students practicing, divides time fairly.
2. Before the event, makes sure skater has registered & turned in music.
3. Before the event, double checks to make sure the skater has costume, spare music copy, etc.
4. Makes sure skater has checked in (or checks skater in) with the ice monitor.
5. Keeps an eye on the schedule and makes sure the skater is ready at the right time.
6. Makes sure skater has removed guards before taking the ice.
7. Actively coaches during the warmup.
8. Makes sure skater has re-removed guards and/or jacket before competing.
9. Provides appropriate feedback after the event.
10. Makes sure skater picks up tape at the end of the event.

Depending on the whether the skater is a kid or adult (and whether the adult has control issues or self-esteem issues) some of this may be overkill. It really depends on the skater. I'm quite capable of handling the logistics of getting dressed, registering, checking in with the monitor, etc. and get a little peeved if someone tries to do them for me.

Notice I didn't include "makes you feel good" and "says positive things" stuff on the list. I think the psychological approach the coach should take depends entirely on the skater. Most skaters really want positive reinforcement at a comp; others need to have a fire lit under the behinds. I don't want my coach suddenly becoming a "cotton candy" coach on me at a comp if that's not our usual relationship.

When my coach is around (like for test sessions), I do get lots of positive strokes from him/her. I, personally, find that helpful. Others don't.

We have incredibly busy coaches who have top competitors at each level. Our main coaches only come to important events. We might not see them until a couple of minutes before the warm up begins. What I expect (as the parent of a juvenile level child) the coach will do is be specific as to when he will meet my daughter, tell us what he expects us to do on our own prior to meeting him (checking in, turning in tapes, skates on, etc) and to be there and coach the on ice warm up. My daughter and her coaches have a good relationship and her coaches are very encouraging always so I expect they will continue that when they put her on the ice for an event. I hope for feedback about the skate. That's basically it. When we decided to go after a high level coach, we knew we were likely giving up the warm fuzzies.

The coach that puts my daughter on for the smaller events is more of a cuddly, feel good kind of lady. She will likely do an off ice warm up and encouragement talk, on ice warm up and gentle but honest critique after the event. My daughter will likely receive several encouraging hugs. I have hired her because she is an excellent coach and because she is sooo warm and makes my child feel like a million bucks. I don't have the same expectations for all the coaches. They are all fabulous, in their own ways.

My daughter's former coach was a woman who was a total !@#$%^ in lessons but turned into this gooey, cooing, sweet thing once they were at the event. Although this was better than continuing to shriek it always seemed to me that she was putting on a face for the other coaches, not for my daughter's good. It was kind of annoying and I was glad when we moved on to greener pastures...

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Babyskater's Mom

Babyskates,

Thanks! Your high-level pro is exactly my scenario. I think I'm expecting too much. Somehow, I guess I just want something more than I'm getting. I got a lot more coddling from my ISI coaches in the early years, but now that I'm very experienced in USFSA, I don't really need that anymore. But sometimes a little bit is nice to have.

He said he would be there to coach me on the on-ice warm up, handle emergencies, and put back into my lesson from what he saw at competition, but that's it. And over the 3 years I've been with him, I guess that's all he has ever done, but it's really been bothering me now. Maybe I perceive that he is doing less and less? And maybe that's because I have more experience now. But there have been some emergencies that he didn't handle that have destroyed competitions for me. But things happen, and we all make mistakes.

Getting him to give verbal feedback afterwards has been like pulling teeth. Also, he will not help me warm up off the ice, which is fine because he's told me what to do. But he also never stays for results, since the adult events are usually the last one on his schedule for that day.

And believe me, there are definitely NO warm fuzzies coming from him. A "good job" is the best you will get, and if you get a handshake, that's worth far more than the gold medal.

My coach, as well as the coach that team teaches with her, meet me at the competition approximately 45 minutes before my event. They will do a 15- 20 minute off ice warm- up, with jumping rope, stretching and walking through your program and off ice jumps.
They check me in with the ice monitor and hold water and warm up sweater, but no guards!
They get me through the on ice warmup and will stay with me before my skate, as well as give me feedback afterwards, which is also applied during future lessons.

Thus, I continue to work on the salchow, loop, to toe loop- toe loop jump pattern in my program until the next competition!

My coach is not a touchy feely type of guy but he is there. I am expected to do my own off ice warm up, as are all his kids unless you are competitive. He's really good at practice ice and the warm up,it's like a lesson. He makes sure you get on the ice at the proper time etc. Afterwards he rarely says anything but good job etc. This last competition I did get him to sit down like he does with the competitive kids, and actually critique what I did. We'll see if I can get that to continue at the next competition! he never stays for results so that's not a problem. This works for me pretty well. I'd rather have him really helpful at the practice ice and the warm up than anything else!

My coach is a tuff/strict lady, not all warm and stuff like that, but i think its kool cause at competitions, she will charge us a lesson fee for each event, no matter how long it takes. She is the top coach at our rink so i think its a good deal. She will meet me usually an hour or 45 mins before my event, and help me warm up and stretch. she always has a complement to give about costumes or hair or something so i always think that is nice of her to do. it makes me feel important. the koolest thing about her is she is really calm during competitions and will just make small chit chat with me when she can she im nervous. then about 5 minutes before my group warm-up she will do fun excerises like balance and wiggling toes and rolling shoulders, just small stuff to make me forget about the other skaters nearby. then she takes my stuff, and always always has a package of kleenex with her for me,(one of my pet peeves is not having kleenex on hand when skating). the time after group warm-up and before i go on is the time that she fills me with positive words and encouragement, and gives last minute reminders. sometimes we do breathing exercises too. And afterwards she will give construction critizicm. What i like about her is she is strict, but she knows when you tried your best, and even if you fell but tried your best she wont yell or make a scene. it is only when a skater gives up and doesnt give it their best that she gets angry. but yeah, i think my coach is really good at competitions, definetly worth the money we pay.

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~Sk8Bunny~
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"I know you can be overwhelmed, and you can be underwhelmed, but can you ever just be whelmed?"

I don't think we adults really need our coaches with us, not like the kids do. Adults can be, and usually are, there for one another even if they're competing against each other - we chat in the changing-rooms, help each other control our breathing if we're nervous, remind each other to take our guards and jackets off, wish each other luck, and so on. We may or may not have a Significant Other with us to do all that, if we do, so much the better.

For kids, though, often their parents are even more nervous than they are (watching someone you love compete is infinitely worse than doing it yourself - I get so stressed when Robert is soloing!), and sometimes a kid can pick up on that and make a Big Deal out of it, and perhaps skate badly because of it. Especially if said kid is inclined to be prima-donna-ish anyway. A coach can separate Kid from Mamma when it's necessary!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Well I just have to give a very happy report today. After expressing my frustations to my coach earlier this week, he REALLY tried much harder today at my competition to do more for me and be a better coach. And he really succeeded and made me pleased with his services.

When I checked in with him upon arriving at the rink, he already knew my skate order, the time I was to skate, and the warm up groups. He told me everything I needed to know. He gave me good words of advice and encouragement before I took the ice, actively coached me on the warm up, and then gave me positive words when I came off the ice. And then to top it all off, he absolutely shocked me by telling me that he would stay around for my results.

WOW WOW WOW!!!

I was going to try and get my "post competition" feedback, but we got swarmed by several of the little girls that I skate with that were there cheering for me, along with lots of other friends who all came up to hug me and tell me what a good skate I had. It made me feel so unbelievably good today!!

This is probably the most satisfied I have been with my coach at competition in quite a while, and it made me so happy that he put forth the effort to make things better for me.

And to top things off, I won the silver medal today in the Adult Silver Ladies Freeskate at the Florida Open.

Thank you to all of you who contributed to this thread. It really helped me sort things out before the competition today. I appreciate it!

Hmmmm? Wonder if he's been reading this thread???

Congratulations on the Silver at Adult Silver!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Seconded!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Pardon me if this was already mentioned, but the coach should also be rinkside with a back up of the skater's music during warm up and competition.

Someone should have a backup, but it doesn't have to be the coach - it is not his/her responsibility to provide one, either, but the skater's. Even if my coach is there, I always give my backup music to my husband, just in case.

Actually, I always have my back-up music on cassette, which means I can then listen to it before my warm-up starts, and remind myself of the choreography - I keep a small Walkman in my skate bag, and try to remember to take batteries for it.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

I believe the coach should have it, rinkside, to avoid unnecssary delays in the event the original music is unplayable.

Skating over to the coach is far preferable than trying to get to Mom up in the stands. Referees everywhere will thank you!

Most competitions normally require you to sign in a back up copy along with the original copy so that really shouldn't be a problem

Maybe in Canada. Around here, waiting while coach & mom run down a back up happens all too frequently.

I don't think this does the skater any good either.

How much do people usually pay their coach to come to competitions? And how do they settle expenses?
Thanks.

I dont know how much my coach charges....but when he took me to my first compation with him during my worm up he went and sat up in the stans talking to some women! i couldn't belive it! and he didn't even come down when i was wating to skate to talk to me just sat up there and WAVED at me! i thought i was going to kill him! but he olny took me to one compation cause we got rid of him pretty fast! my new coach worms me up and talkes to me before i skate and get's my mind of everything! SHE'S GREAT!

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~*SkYlA*~

Ice T,

As my daughter is a former student of your coach, I know your frustrations firsthand. Quite frankly, I was always happier when he couldn't/didn't come to the various competitions because I never felt he was doing anything that warrented being paid for. He did exactly for her what he did for you (not much). My daughter also PREFERRED it when I put her on the ice instead of him. She has her own ideas of how she wants to warm up and she wasn't comfortable at all with how he did it and I could calm her nerves where he couldn't. She always skated better when I put her on.

He never hung around for her results either so it's not an "adult" thing. He would always say the same "good job" no matter how well or badly she skated. He's a sweetheart of a guy, but she found that annoying because it told her nothing about what he really thought.

My daughter just competed with her new coach for the first time. What a difference! This coach has quite a different philosophy about what coaches are supposed to do than most. For a flat rate (that was less than her old coach's fee for one event) he will coach her on all practice ice sessions, (my daughter has NEVER had anyone coach her during practice ice before and she liked it ALOT) he'll coach ALL events warm-ups and give a full assessment of the performance to the skater and parent. He goes over the results posted and discusses the ordinals, placements and where do we go from here. Then he'll do something her shy mild mannered former coach would NEVER do...talk to the judges! He also doesn't charge for meals or gas mileage. His expenses will only be hotel and airfare (if applicable) divided amongst his students. He doesn't charge for "missed lessons" back home either.

I'm really comfortable with him at competition. I can now send my child with friends to away competitions (if I can't get the time off from work) and feel secure that he'll handle her just fine.

The pizza party he hosted for the kids and parents one evening was a nice touch too. Apparently it's a tradition at competition.

But few adults - and not all children, these days - have their coaches with them.

What makes you think Mom is up in the stands? In my experience, she's usually hovering pretty near..... unless the coach is there, in which case she is hovering if she is a Helpful Mother, and making herself useful tying bows, finishing make-up, etc. If she is an Unhelpful Mother, coach will have banished her, or got Helpful Mother to take her for a coffee.....

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

The thing to do is ask your coach what his/her policy is. Mine, for instance, doesn't charge for competitions held at our home rink, but asks for petrol money for elsewhere. On the other hand, he doesn't usually go if it means missing a great many lessons. For instance, although I don't suppose he'd at all mind coming to Dunkerque (he likes France as much as I do, and French red wine even more than I do, and that's saying something!), he couldn't possibly miss one teatime and two full morning patches, and I certainly couldn't afford to pay him enough to make up for it!

So I don't ask him to go, now. He did come to Bracknell once or twice, but all but the first time he had another pupil as well as me, and we shared his costs. We arranged with him in advance how much would be fair, and split it between us.

As for how they settle, cash or cheque in advance is the best way - perhaps in an envelope when you settle up your lesson/patch fees. "That's this, and that, and this is for next Saturday"

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Mrs Redboots;

In my opinion, humble or no, Mom should be in the stands. Only coaches and competitors should be by the ice.

And re talking with the judges afterwards, it never ceases to amaza me how many coaches & skaters fail to show up after events when critiques by the judges are offered.

Coach charges:

We're usually at the rink first, register, check in music, find dressing room. Get costume on. Coach shows up about that point and takes over (I find a seat in the stands), does off ice warm up, talks through the tensions and puts the skater on the ice. Hangs around until results are called, about a half an hour. Leaves if this is the only skater. If there are multiple skaters, will juggle with another certified coach (we know about this in advance) if there are two skaters on at the same time on different rinks.

For this we pay the base coach one hour of time at the regular rate whether it is an hour or not. If another coach was involved, the base coach settles this, we don't ever pay the other coach.

Then we pay:

Coach mileage to and from the event
Coach per diem (food)
Coach accommodations
Payment for lessons lost at home club while coach is at the competition (yup, this is the killer one)

All this pro-rated by the number of skaters the coach has at an event on that day.

The competition costs show up on the regular bill from the coach.

Having my coach with me at Adult Nationals last weekend was invaluable. I was jittery when I started my warm up, and he noticed it, called me over and said just the right things to get me in focus. He repeated them before I competed, and the skate went very well - no real jitters, no real problems. Anyone can hold my water and skate guards, but having somebody there who knows me and my skating was quite important. I'm really glad he was there!

My coach charges a standard fee for competitions plus mileage. He just adds it onto his monthly bill. If I were to want him to accompany me out of area, then I would pay for his airfare and room.

BTW, my mother, who is an ex-coach herself, would not have been anywhere near the competitors area unless I had asked her to be. I am an adult, not a kid, but she's sat in the stands at all 3 of my competitions. I don't remember her being anywhere nearby when I competed as a kid, either. That was my coach's job.

Congrats on the Silver medal !!!