I'm thinking the heels were just left on as a remnant from the "good old days" and to keep me pitching forward when I land my jumps
Thanks for the other info.....
I have the comets which have an 8.5' radius...maybe I can blame that for my inconsistant spinning....
I'm debating now as to changing my roh to the 7/16 (it's 1/2" now, but I like a real grabby edge). Maybe later, once my regular rink re-opens (in 59 days and counting)

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I hope I'm reading this correctly, Stardust, as I am going to argue a little with your explanation of the "rocker". The rocker has nothing to do with the size of circle that you can make with your blade ON THE ICE -- it has everything to do with how large a circle you can make if you laid a whole bunch of blades end to end and then measured the radius of that circle. The 8' radius blade would, placed end to end, make a circle that has an 8' radius (please, some math expert help me!! I don't remember the correct term for this and I can't draw a picture in this window!)

Chuck Wright explains it on his website like this:

As far as the heel height goes, I don't know -- if the heels were flat, like hockey skates, the blades would have to be different and it would I think be that much harder to point your toe. I do notice that my back never hurts when I skate, but I almost always have trouble with my upper back when I walk long distances in flat shoes -- it makes me think I should wear more of a heel for walking, but that is another subject I guess.

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Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

Well, you're talking about things that don't affect your skating one way or the other, things that are only cosmetic besides. You have no idea how much I've given up for skating.

I do take the sport seriously, and that's why I bought the gold stars in the first place, I believed (based erroneously on sticker price) that they would allow me to advance the fastest. Sure, I wasn't right. Oh well.

I WANT opinions, and I WANT to hear people's experiences - that's why I asked. I did not want to be put down for my past choices nor did I want to be yelled at because I didn't immediately say "gee stardust, yes you're right, I'll not question you one bit". I really don't know what made you feel it was justified to just come out and attack me like you did. You can make all the advice you want, but you can't ram it down my throat. It certainly meant a lot more to me before this recent argument - now my trust in you is seriously damaged, whereas before, your recommendations concerning skating equipment meant more to me than anybody else (believe it or not). I'll question any advice and seek more detail regardless of what my inclination is at the time - I want to make as well-educated of a decision as possible this time, since last time I did not.

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

You're couldn't be less accurate. Nobody at my rink even knows what blade I have I don't think, and the only thing it means to me is whether or not I can skate as well. I didn't buy Gold Star blades to show off to my friends, I bought them with the belief that they would allow me to advance the fastest.

My recent posts directed at you have had a negative tone because yours towards me have been extremely negative, there's no other reason. Had you been more considerate instead of attacking me, you might have been surprised by the different reaction you'd have gotten. But advice from somebody who's treating me like crap means NOTHING.

No, I would have wasted the money on something else, and would be in exactly the same predicament now.

I don't have a problem with either, I in fact enjoy them. But I do not enjoy being put down or made to feel bad because of my past decisions.

My only mistake has been letting my skates get in the way of my skating. I don't regret anything else - if nothing else it's all been a great learning experience, and I'm smarter now for it.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Yeah you are reading my post right. I get what you are saying, but then...if lining up these blades one next to the other created this particular size circle, wouldn't riding the natural circle/curve of the blade also trace the same circle as lining it up with more pairs? You could conclude that the pair in front of each pair of blade before it is the natural direction the blade would take anyway. I don't know, that is what I was told years ago, there's a chance it is wrong, but it's always made sense to me!

Casey---

Well as far as for clarifying my last post, all I want to say is that I'm not saying you're buying blades to show off to anybody- I never thought that for a second. I know that sometimes, I wear my most expensive make up and clothes when I'm gonna stay home all night and lounge around, and I do it so *I* can feel beautiful and luxurious and what have you. In a similar reasoning, I think you might have (even subconsciously) bought your high-end blades to make YOURSELF feel more advanced, which isn't the way to go. I just don't see how anyone could reason that a more difficult blade to handle would make them progress faster, so I have to think of another explanation. But what I said is just my assumption, and I'm fine with being wrong. After all I do not know you. All I can do is tell you what appears on the outside, and I'm doing it to try and pinpoint to you why you made the mistake so you don't do it again (because it sounds like you might), NOT to put you down.

What baffles me is not that you don't agree or like my advice, but rather the fact that you think I put you down, or even more..yelled at you. I think you are being really overdramatic- and this is the first negative thing I have said about you as a person....ever. We're talking about BLADES, dude. Blades. It's not going to end world hunger at the end of the day, I'm trying to help you out. I realize you might not want to follow my advice, and that's totally fine with me, but so long as you haven't bought them yet and are still asking questions, I will still try to give you points and try to help you make the right decision, because otherwise I wouldn't be helpful. I'm not trying to shove a decision down your throat- I recommended both the MK Pros. and JW Coronation Aces absolutely equally, because they are similar blades, and they are both designed FOR your level. The only thing I'm trying to shove down your throat is that you should buy the right blade for your level, because someone desperatly needs to make you understand that. If I'm going to be hated for it, that's cool with me. This is just a message board, and I still feel like I'm doing the right thing by trying.

Bottom line though, is that I haven't put you down, and I certainly haven't yelled at you. I really don't see why I'd pull something like that over a BLADE discussion. I think you're taking it wayyyyyy too personally. I would have told anyone the exact same thing as I told you, in the same words. I'm talking about particular situations and equipment- who you are as a person has nothing to do with my advice, and thus I have no reason to put you down or insult you. I don't know why it has to be so dramatic, I'm just trying to reason you out of the wrong blades.

Oh well. A good deed never goes unpunished, and all that. If you need any further explanation of my intentions, feel free to pm me, I think this convo has gone from helpful discussion to soap opera in about three posts.

Nah, I like jumping and spinning too much.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Wait... who said you couldn't do BOTH?!?!


My dance partner does both! started as a speedskater, but has been converted lol (still does both, of course)



(I'm trying to convince my 8.y.o brother to dance with this adorable little girl at this one rink, also 8, but he thinks figure skating/figure skates are the source of ALL evil in the world )

I would love to speedskate! Sometimes I see how fast I can go around the rink!
I am also trying to convince my 9 yo son to also take up figure skating....(in addition to hockey of course) the girls would line up for him-he's cute. He just learned to do a waltz jump in his hockey skates (he told us we had better not tell his friends and coach or else!)

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Oh, I *have* a pair of speed skates - I got them on eBay back when I first started skating, and I don't think they're bad at all as far as speed skates go. But they're sooooo weird to skate on because you can't turn without crossing over, and I can go faster on figure blades (not to mention it lets me dodge the random little kid factor)!

*icedancer1419*, maybe your brother can teach me some speed skating properly one day.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Okay, I get what you mean now. Hmmm.

I guess what made me think that this was not correct way of thinking was that in figures, you can do loops (very small circles) with either radius size. But then again, this is not the natural "direction of the blade" but rather a technique that is learned to control the blade (and body) to go in a very small circle to control the figure.

I'm wondering now about deeper lobes, shallow lobes, like in dance -- does it make a difference what blade you are wearing? I don't know. I don't think so, but then again, I know that technique -- for example, what you are doing with your free leg and toe can really make a difference in the depth of the edge -- again, not really the natural "direction of the blade" per se, but learned technique.

Interesting. Thanks for the discussion.

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Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

Yeah that's exactly what I mean- I was afraid I wasn't being too clear with it. You can control your blade to make whatever circle you want, more or less. But if the blade had its way (tough chance ) where would it go? Who knows. I can't even remember who told me this, I know it was a fitter, but I can't remember who or where. I think rocker size does affect lobes though, I mean if you get a bigger radius, it's probably easier to make bigger lobes because the blade naturally curves less, and with a smaller rocker, it's easier to make smaller really tight lobes, because the blade naturally curves more. I know that's one of the reasons I got an 8 FT rocker, because my footwork in general needed to be bigger and less curved up onto itself. It did help to get a flatter blade for that. It might also explain why a bigger rocker is harder to center spins with- because it makes naturally larger circles, so it's harder to center them and to control the spin to make the small circles it needs to make to be a good spin. Anyhow, that's just my logic. Thanks for the discussion too.

My daughter has been using pattern 99 blades since she was in freestyle 1. We started out buying barely used ones to buying new ones. She had a pair of phantoms once but didn't like them any better and her skating was the same. She has passed all her moves and her novice fs test, consistantly lands her double axel and lands 2 triples depending on the day. I think that by finding a good blade that the skater can grow with takes a lot of the anxiety away from getting new skates. My daughter's new skates always feel the same to her(just a little stiffer) and getting used to them takes very little time.

On those few instances where I've done perfect spins (which has happened maybe 3 times , the circles were so small, you could cover them with a cd. I skate in coronation comets with their 8.5' radius.
As far as my lobes go, sometimes they are big, sometimes not. They seem to be more controlled by my body position and determined by technique-good or bad.
Right now, my obstacle is arm position and knowing where they are supposed to be during a particular move

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I think it depends on how much you lean. There have been times when I've leaned too much into fast crossovers, so much that the edge of the boot hits the ice and the blade therefore cannot, so I go flying. Less blade height would be less tolerant of deep leaning.

I don't know how much of it has to do with technique though - I could see this making a really big difference to female pair skaters doing death spirals...

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Hey, I know of a hockey skater and instructor who started out in pairs. He was last seen a few months ago taking ice dancing lessons so that when his "new mom" wife is ready that he could teach her the steps and they can ice dance together!!! AWWWWW!!!! (And he's probably one of the better ice hockey coaches too from what I've seen!)

Now to convince our speed skater ice guard to convert...

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Lean has something to do with it, but also technique -- an ice-dancers boots hit the ice all of the time and yet they manage to get very deep edges and their blade doesn't leave the ice. They have very good control.

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Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

Well I love my new pattern 99's. They were quite a bit different than my Gam g3 blades. I am doing sooooo much better in the spin department. I am 5'11'' 193lbs solid guy and I think I warranted a pretty high quality blade and boot.

My ultimate goal is all doubles jumps and an axel . I think this type of blade was a good choice for me.

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Why are you skating so slowly? Get out of my way!

If you skate faster, it makes everything look better!

Hey Jazzpants,

Well I actually am just now *reading* this article instead of just the quote, and this guy sounds a bit off, saying that 1/2" to 1" is the normal ROH, and a typical freestyle skater would use 3/4" and most won't even go down to 1/2" (and 3/8" is "outrageously deep").

Ehhhmmmm....this seems totally wrong!

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Well, speaking from someone who has tried 3/8"... it's defintely too sticky for me. I started at 1/2" and found that 7/16" is better for me...

In the end, you'll gonna have to try different ROH and find out which one is best for 'ya!!! I can't make any recommendations for 'ya short of trying factory ROH first and then try another one on your next sharpening and seeing how that feels. Heck, it might be that you might like 3/8"...

BTW: I happen to know Kevin... he was a skating buddy of mine and was starting to land double flips when he quit. He wrote the website back when he was still working on double flips. And trust me, his footwork is nice... very smooth and clean... Sad that he had to give up skating to save his lower back! But definitely someone I trust on skating stuff... (And of course, he also had a great skater and coach too...and w/o giving names out, this coach I definitely trust -- enough that I also had him too!)

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

----------

Sarayani,
the "best equipment" is what is needed for the individual skater to properly learn. Over blading, as well as over booting can make this difficult and frustrating for the skater - no matter what part of the anatomy you "work off".

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Who is Ray? I don't see any posts by a "Ray" in this thread.

And I think you're being overly sensitive. People ask for advice here. Other people give it. If you don't like the advice, oh well. I don't see that anybody here is being "hurtful to others." There have been disagreements and misunderstandings, but Casey is a big boy and can take care of himself. The questions of "What are the best boots" and "What are the best blades" is impossible for anyone else to answer -- by definition, it's going to generate disagreement. We disagree about stuff all the time here. No biggie.

rf3ray, who started some of the other threads asking about gold seals, and whom stardust skies referred to as "your friend" in the above posts. As it happens he's no more or less a friend than pretty much anyone else here, I consider nearly everyone here a friend!

Well I'm actually still just a baby in skating terms. ;-) But I'm not really offended or anything - I just got angry at stardust skies a bit back because I was frustrated and reading her words as an attack on me. We've sorted things out in private discussion though - all's well that ends well.

Sarah, I do agree with you though, and thank you for your kind words - at the end of the day only the skater buying the equipment can make the final decision of what is right or wrong for them. Even if all the better equipment does is instill more confidence, if that allows you to progress faster then it's worth it.

But I wanted to hear other's input, because while I'm certainly curious about other blades, I can't realistically afford to go buy a pair of each, try them all out, and decide for myself. Blades are expensive, and I don't really want to waste a bunch of money on a theory that they *might* work better and end up with something I can barely skate on.

I was actually pondering just saving up and getting another set of Gold Stars, simply because they've worked very well for me and it avoids this whole Aces/Professionals versus Gold Seals debate entirely. But I think I'd do equally well on Aces, and save a bunch of money in the process. If I end up not liking them, well, at least it didn't cost too terribly much to try!

I think the end result of this discussion is that pretty much everyone says Coronation Aces or Professionals are the most appropriate choice for an early level all the way up through the doubles, but if you've got any sort of reasonable determination, you can make do on lesser or greater skates. My gut feeling on the matter is that it doesn't really relate to level so much as what just happens to feel best on your feet, just like the debate about different boot brands. Some people find an 8' rocker easy, others find it unmanageable. Some people love SP Teris, others have sore feet in them.

Just gotta make your mind up and go with whatever feels best to you and see what happens - chances are you'll manage just fine. If not, at least you learned from it!

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

sarahyani,
There's no attack here. There's just a common misconception by skaters early in their career that the "best" blade or boot means the top of the production line. It's not the case and causes frustration for those not in the proper boots and blades for their level. Also, many early skaters get in lots of practice time allowing them to wear out a pair of blades and "grow into" the next pair as their skill increases. Like Casey said, it's difficult to pick something you really can't try out, and it can be an expensive mistake. He and hopefully others are just benefiting from years and years of experience on these boards. Since as you said you couldn't "be bothered reading 3 pages of discussion" you got the Reader's Digest summary.