Has anyone ever gotten blades past their level? How'd it go? I want to get Pattern 99's for FS 3, but I'm not sure if they'll slow me down, or allow me to progress faster. Any comments on this?

yup! i got club 2000s back when i was in delta (they r good like up until your axel) and they helped me move up ALOT faster then i think i would have if i got a lower level kind.......... i think it only helps though if its not Too far past ur level at the time u get them......... but i then needed new blades at freestyle 4....... so those blades arent that good.....

im just saying that its good to get blades that are slightly advanced for your level.......

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It is important to note, however, that Club 2000 blades are absolute beginner blades meant to be worn by people who barely know how to do a three turn, all the way through most of the single jumps. People find it's best to switch out of Club 2000's and into MK pro's or Coronation Aces after they've worked on the flip and lutz for a while.

Pattern 99's are the second highest level blade you can get. While Club 2000 is the second lowest level blade you can get. Club 2000's are actually very appropriate for Delta. Pattern 99's are not that great for FS 3. Two main reasons: number one, the toe pick: it's straight cut rather than criss-crossed, and it has one precise top pick for spot-on toe jumps. Most people learning basics and single jumps will not be able to hit that top toe pick, and will not get the necessary grab out of straight cut teeth. For this, the criss cross teeth and more uniform toe pick of the Mk Pros or Coronation Aces are much better.

Also, the rocker on Pattern 99's is much flatter. This means a faster blade, but it also means it's much, much harder to center spins and to get them fast if you haven't been doing really good spins for a long time before switching over.

The thing with all this talk about blades above your level is this: it wastes your money. You think it'll take you all the way through to when you actually reach that level, but that's not true. By the time you're ready, the rocker will have flattened, the blades might have rusted, you will need new boots, etc. So why bother? You WILL need to switch them before you drastically need new blades anyway. On top of this, advanced blades are advanced for a reason. While I'm sure that SOME people do great in blades above their levels, they can't really compare because they don't know if they wouldn't have done just as well in lower level blades. Blades are essential, but at the end of the day, it's your technique that matters. If you don't have advanced technique, your advanced blades won't make your technique advanced. It might feel cool to wear advanced blades, but advanced skaters don't look at the brand of blades you are wearing, they look at your skating. If you buy "cool" blades and end up not centering your spins or missing your toepicks, it'll make you look more like a beginner than having a beginner blade ever could.

Truth is, better to stick around in blades below your level longer than you need than be in blades above your level before you need them. Otherwise, you have nothing to graduate to. Be technique dependant, not blade dependant!

I agree with stardust. "Too much blade" is a waste of money, and speaks more to vanity than good skating. And big toepicks and big rockers can make learning some of the lower level skills more difficult than they should be.

Oooh stardust, this detail is exactly what I was looking for in the other thread - wish I'd seen it first! Feel free to ignore me there

What do you think of Coronation Comets? Those are essentially the same as Aces with an 8' rocker, yes?

The 8' rocker is both tempting and scary. I want the faster speed and additional stability, but surely don't need any more difficulty on spins right now...

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Freeskate coach guy has pattern 99's and is still doing triples. When I was getting a lesson on the flip recently we had discussion about the big top pick on the 99's. When he stretches back to pick, that big pick works great for him because he's down low enough that it works. When I try to stretch that far, I need a stretcher. So, there's no chance that I'll need pattern 99's any time soon, my jumping style would never suit that blade. I'm on a MK something blade, will probably get Aces next.

Casey,

The Comet is an 8 1/2 inch rocker - the most you can get. It also has a straight cut toe pick which seems to not be recommended by some - my fitter in particular. However, I skate on them and have no trouble - but it might make more sense to go with the Ace in a more standard 8 inch and criss cross blade pattern. I am a Silver Level skater and am considering upgrading as I start doubles. If I ever decide on any 7 inch blades it would be a huge change! I think I'll look to 8 inch.

Are you talking about the radius ...? A silver skater usually works on axels and doubles, w/ good edge quality and solid centered spins and some flying spins. Most blades are an 8' foot radius not 8 1/2" rocker and rockers on blades are not placed at 8 1/2 inches.

Buying too much of a blade can hurt you. I use a pattern 99 k pick and it took me a while to grow into it. If you don't have solid edge quality and good form you will suffer and the blade will move right along and without you. I recommend the blade highly for skaters who are on their intermediate and novice moves w/ double jumps and especially good posture and really solid power.

So if you are fs 3, that is lower than pre pre USFSA standard track. The pattern 99 is tooooo much for you the classic blade would be the cornation ace you should contemplate the 99's while on the adult gold moves, or the intermediate.

la

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Oh wow, you're right, Comets do have an 8.5' rocker. That's crazy! Can you spin on them? How long have you been skating?

Aces (both Coronation Aces and Four Aces) have a 7' rocker though, not an 8'.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Hi Casey- Yeah I saw that thread when I was replying to this one, but you asked skaternum the questions and not me, even though skaternum hadn't posted in that thread, so I wasn't SURE you were addressing me, and rather than assuming, I figured my tirade would be good here too.

As far as the question of "how do I know the Gold Seals aren't better if I have never tried them", I guess it's because I am very happy with my technique right now, and whatever I'm NOT happy with, I know what needs to be fixed, and it is one hundred percent me. Might I be faster with Gold Seals? Might I have cleaner edges? It is possible- I wouldn't know. But I LOVE my blades, I feel like they definitely don't hinder me, and whatever I could gain out of higher level blades, I could also gain from working harder. I just feel that TOP END blades are for when you are a top end skater, and I've got another level and many competitions to go before I have a chance to call myself one. I want something to graduate to if and when I reach the top. If I've been in Gold Seal for five years before I get there, I won't even feel the benefits of them because I'll have learned half of my technique in them. I also don't want to rely on a better blade to give me better control or better edges, I wanna do it myself and THEN get the better blades, maybe- see if I like the changes. But at the end of the day, I don't really see myself ever switching out of Pattern 99's. They work for me. And if something ain't broke, I'm not going to try and fix it. I'm just sayin'....the most expensive or highest end thing might not be the best one for everybody, EVEN if it were level appropriate.

It's like pants...you wanna get the smaller size first to see if it fits you and THEN gradually get bigger sizes. Otherwise...you grab a big size, and it fits you ok, but you don't realize that the smaller pair would've fit you better, and hey, you could've realized you were a size 6 instead of an 8. Same with skating classes. You start in the most basic class. If you're too advanced, they move you up. They don't start you in the top class and move you down if you can't keep up. It's just....building up to things, in my opinion. Okay, it's late, and I could ramble on about this particular topic for DAYS. I'm stopping right now.

Oh, as a final note though- I wouldn't get the Comets- WAY TOO FLAT. I am a naturally good spinner (much better than jumper, which definitely doesn't come naturally...) and had really, really solid spins before going into the 8 inch rocker of Pattern 99's. I feel that you would benefit from the 7 inch rocker of the MK pros. or the Coronation Aces. I believe you would see an improvement in your spins immediately. I was on a 7 inch rocker for years and years before moving on, and I mainly did so because at the time I really had an issue with curving too much in my footwork and checking out of my jumps on a curve instead of straight...it helped me out there. I wouldn't really consider an 8 inch rocker for someone doing single jumps (ie: not needing THAT much speed) unless they were amazing spinners to begin with and had some sort of issue with too much curvature in their skating (which really just means you're not checking enough, as I eventually figured out). It's also to be noted that the MK pros. have a toepick similar to the Gold Stars which you are already on. The Pattern 99 toepick would probably be a nuisance to you, esp. since you have issues with your flip. Good luck making the decisions, everybody!

...Why do I so enjoy talking about blades?! I have a problem.

Sorry, I just can't stand it, so here is my spiel about radius vs rocker once again, copied right out of my previous post:

Radius can refer to the radius of hollow, which is the size of the groove (hollow) between the edges running the length of the blade. It is measured as the radius of the circle that the hollow is a part of. Picture a penny balanced on the bottom of your blade. If it fits perfectly into the hollow, then the radius of hollow is the same as the radius of the penny. This feature is usually referred to simply as the hollow, so as not to get confused with the radius of the rocker. A deeper hollow (1/4" for example) increases the ability to hold a deep edge, but also makes turning more difficult. A shallower hollow such as 5/8" makes turning easier, but holding deep edges more difficult.

Rocker refers to the curvature of the bottom of the blade, and is also measured as the radius of a circle. Imagine placing your blade (without the toe and heel plates) flat on a circle with a radius of 8 feet. If it fits perfectly on that circle, then that is the rocker of the blade. A smaller rocker means that the blade is curved more and less of it is contact with the ice as you skate.

When you see the term "radius" with a measurement in fractions of an inch (for example 1/2" or 3/8"), then you know it is referring to the hollow. When you see mention of a radius measured in feet, such as 7' or 8', then you know that it refers to the rocker of the blade.

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Hi,
I loved the Comets and kept them for quite a while. From them I went to Phantoms. No problems on the spinning (from the blade that is).

I have been skating as an adult for 4 years but also skated as a child. Spinning is not as strong as my jumping, but I don't think it has much to do with the blade and more to do with my technique. My childhood coach focused more on my jumping - therefore I am MUCH better at that. Who knows the 7's might help, but I think I will play it safe and go to 8's after these. I am FAST, my friend just realized I skated on 8 1/2 inch rockers and said. "ahhh, now I know your secret to fast skating".

Woops, meant 7 for the Ace's - sorry.

How's that? I have a 7' rocker now...

Actually it's the loop that's the most bothersome. The flip has shaped up nicely, and the only thing I'm doing stupidly on both the toe loop and the flip now is not getting the picking leg straight and instead jumping badly-formed jumps because of a bent knee. I don't know why I started doing this - I never used to...but it's a REALLY hard habit to shake.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

I don't know. When I was in a MK5 that came with my Jacksons, I coudn't spin at all. Then I changed to Corination Comets and picked up the waltz jump. Ooo! When I changed boot because the Jacksons did not fit me properly, I had to buy blades because the Comets were longer than my Graf Edmonton Specials. I ended up buying Pattern 99's because of what my then coach wanted me to have.

To the Pattern 99's credit, I had no trouble skating in them even though the toe pick was much bigger than the Comet's. I also was able to get more control in my skating. I also got my spins with the Pattern 99. The only problem I have is on the back spin but that's just because of the boot being so warped that I had to have shimmies put between the boot and the blade to try to correct the problem. I still have to make more adjustments. Boy, if I win some cash from one of the lotteries I am playing, I'll be buying new boots but not without taking my friend Vern Taylor with me to the pro shop. I'm not getting stuck with warped, badly made boots again. When I last left the ice, I had jumps upto a two footed lutz, an almost counting backspin, a camel, sit, sit into back catch foot spin, catch foot spin, sit to broken sit. Most of my spins were centered with up to 8 to 10 revs except the camel two and half and back spin. The camel is a very new spin for me. I had only worked on it 4 sesssions. So what I'm saying is that for some the Pattern 99 can be a good thing and for others, not. I might be one of the few that the Pattern 99 helps. Talk to your coach and see what they recommend.

Brigitte.

I can't wait to be healthy and back on the ice.

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"It's not age that determines but the heart." "Skating is not just a sport for the young but it's a passion for the soul of the young at heart." Brigitte Laskowski

I am a nomadic adult skater who is a member of Windsor FSC (Skate Windsor) WOS SC again since Sept. 1st, 2008.

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I edited my post to reflect this correction. The sad part is that I know the difference between a radius and a rocker, and I have no idea why I typed radius all these times. It was late. Thanks for the post though, it is corrected.

I thought you said you had an 8 inch rocker...my bad. Well, if you have spin issues with a 7 inch, then you DEFINITELY don't wanna get anything flatter. You want to get really good at spins with the rocker you have now. Also, the problem with your toe jumps that you mention is exactly why Pattern 99's wouldn't work for you- what you are doing is exactly what would cause you to miss the toepick. I still think you would do great in MK pros. I stand by what I say, but I know you will never get them.

Coronation Comets have an 8 1/2 rocker. ANYTHING you would have bought would have helped your spins in comparison to the Comets. Since the Pattern 99's are half an inch curvier, of course they helped your spins. But if you had gotten Coronation Aces or Mk Pros, with their 7 inch rocker, you would have probably gotten helped even more, because they are even curvier. The curvier the blade, the easier it is to spin. So in this logic, it's normal for Pattern 99's to have felt like they helped in comparison to the Comets. Does not, however, mean that they were the best blades to learn spins on. Just that they were better than the even worst blade you picked before.

I agree totally with stardust on this one -- don't buy too much blade -- the Coronation Ace or MK Pros are PERFECT for your level!!

This thread has really got me thikning about the whole blade issue and trying to figure out how much of the difference in blades is just a matter of marketing -- like when a lot of people say, "I got such-and such a jump" in this blade, and then I switched to this blade and then I got my axel -- well, wouldn't you have improved by just practicing more and gotten your axel anyway?

I keep thinking about the "old days" when I was a kid, and there weren't that many blades. I remember Coronation Ace and Gold Seal, but not a lot in between. Most of the people (kids) I skated with had Coronation Ace and most of those people were able to progress through all of their jumps and on up to doubles without changing blades. That's just the way it was.

Same with boots. The boots were not nearly as stiff as they are now, and people still were doing all of their jumps and doubles and sometimes triples, and the boots were all just soft... --

I think it's greatly a matter of technique, like stardust as emphasized, and like I always say,

Practice, practice, practice.

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I have the Comets. I got them on the advice of my coach. They were the upgrade from the Jackson Mirage.

I had been just learning the scratch spin in the Mirage. I switched blades towards the end of the season. The biggest difference was the lack of effort it took to glide. Think "hot knife through butter." This meant that stroking and edges went from mediocre to awesome. My spins went from awful to awful-so nothing changed there. Hey, bad is bad!

I can't comment on jumps because my landing blade wasn't mounted right and that was a losing battle, as the rink closed for the season and it just got fixed 2 weeks ago.... (the blade, not the rink)

I will say that the few really good spins I did on the Comets were totally awesome!!! I'm talking revolutions so fast, I got scared! Where before, I was squeaking out 3-4 revolutions on the Mirage blades, the Comets gave me on average, 10. I've been very happy with them! I've been skating for 1.5 years....

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

How do you presume to know I won't get them? Honestly, Coronation Aces are seeming a more and more attractive option the more I hear about them. I'd probably pick the Four Aces over the Coronation Aces though, but that's just because I like the straight-cut toepick more - they're otherwise the same blade AFAIK. Yeah, there's still temptation to get Pattern 99s instead, and since I have a little time before I'll have the money to buy them anyways, I'll probably reserve final judgement until after hearing rf3ray's opinion on the gold seals before discounting them entirely.

One thing I know for certain, investment in training and effort outweighs investment in *ANY* blades.

And hey, if I missed my toepick and had a few falls to teach me a lesson then maybe it would convince me to break the stupid habit. I just don't understand why I'm doing it - I never did before - I think it's related to being paranoid about the condition of my skates affecting my skating.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

OK, I'm a beginner (and brought up in the metric system, so feet and inches doesn't have a whole lot of meaning for me), but now I'm confused. dbny posted an explanation of rocker and hollow (and feet vs inches) which I may have misunderstood, because stardust skies says s/he edited the post to reflect the correction but the post and later posts are still referring to 7 inch, 8 inch, and 8 and a half inch rockers(?). Is there a part of the blade (apart from the length from toe to heel) which would be measured in these dimensions?

On another (related) subject - several of the posters have referred to the rocker being ground down (presumably by many sharpenings). On average, how many sharpenings can you expect from a blade? (*Enables aussieskater to do basic maths to work out how long her blades are likely to last...*)

Mirages are what I'm on. What level were you on when you changed, and what made you change? (Not that I'm anticipating a change any time soon - I suspect I need to get a whole lot better before I go up in blades!)

It should read 7, 8 and 8 and a half FEET. Not inches. A foot is a little less than a third of a metre (30.48 cm)


I've heard that with careful sharpening a good pair of blades can last up to 100 sharpenings. Maybe more. Check the sticky at the top of the thread list to find a link to a very informative article on sharpening.