I'm curious as to whether in your area the skating competitions in low divisions are also broken up into age groups? Like for example, my daughter is in FS1, but she's only 5 years old. In her last competition she was up against kids as old as 10 years old who'd been skating 2-3 years (my daughter has been skating 13 months)......

How do they do it in your parts? Is it strictly by level attained?

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

It totally depends on the competition - some divide by age (our Open does), others don't. I think it does depend a bit, historically, on how many entries they get.

Dance almost never seems to be divided by age - at one competition, not even between adults and kids!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Wow! That would've been a tough gig!

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

Yes, because the kids usually kick the adults butts..lol

Its not that uncommon to see adults competing with kids. However most competitions have age divisions so that if you were an adult competing it would usually be with the 13 and over crew.

It was, although one adult in her 60s managed to win her solo class despite competing against kids! We were so proud of her..... other classes, we just reckoned that the adult who finished highest had won, whatever the medals table said! In fact, in the elementary couples, it was just us and our old friends/enemies (who won again!), and we had a walkover in the free dance as the other couple had to withdraw and our old friends aren't doing one this year.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

In the US all the non-qualifying competitions try to divide groups by age, but it's not always possible because of the number of skaters entered in each level. Most opens state in the application announcement how groups will be sub-divided, usually by "date of birth". It pays to read the announcements carefully.

It is not possible for the organizers to know how long a skater has been skating or how long the skater has been at a particular level.

I completely understand that. But when you have someone who is 6 (weeks away from turning 7) competing against someone who turned 5 only 2 weeks prior, it's hard to explain to the littlies why they don't place so well...

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mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

If those are the only two skaters in the level, it's not as if the club had much choice, other than turning both away.

And that's not really a big gap. In the adult competition I was at over the weekend, the gap between oldest and youngest skaters in one event was over 40 years!

Back in the Dark Ages of Skating when I started, there was a USFSA rule that saidthat the gap between the oldest skater in a group and the next oldest could not be more than five years. Since that effectively eliminated adults from competing against kids, it was stricken from the books even before adult competitions were instituted.

As for explaining it to the "little", I think I'd just tell her that that's the way competitions go and that everybody loses sometimes. As long as she skated her best, the color of the medal or who she was beaten by or how old they are doesn't matter.

Most isi competitions, that I have been to with my DD (mostly CA and NV), divide the skaters by age for their freestyle events if it is a smaller event they will mix ages up to a year or two ie: 5 & 6, 7 & 8. But it is also very common for them to mix not only age but levels for a spotlight event. She should probably get used to being the youngest one in the group if she's moving along that fast.

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Luckey

BTDT
We skate both ISI and USFSA.In ISI, they are supposed to be age related ie 5 and 6 year olds, 7 and 8 year olds.
HOWEVER, this doesnt always work out. We live in a place that is strongly ISI. But there arent a zillon skaters here like in other places.They have no choice but to use wider ages.When dd was 5, she was with 10 year olds.When she was 6, she was with 11 year olds.
Even at 7, she is always with older kids.Guess what, she places above older kids and has for a awhile now.Its just something you have to work though.In USFSA is 10 and under, 11 and older. In june she did an USFSA where she was first in both FS and artistic, 2 in comp moves with 6 skaters 10 and under.
When we went though this at age 4 and 5, we talked alot about how our skaters wouldnt place first since they were with older kids who had bigger muscles memory ect.It was a great lesson, as we all know even the best dont place first always.

make it about the experience, not the prize.

Please note this isn't a rant about the post above or the poster. It's just a personal observation of mine based on a couple of decades in this sport.

There are two ways to take this phrase. One (which is the way I think the poster meant it) is that no matter how how good you are like Kwan and Cohen, you don't always win. You may have an off day or somebody else comes along who has a skill you don't have or is just all round better. And there is no shame in not coming in first if you've done your best. I think this is a healthy attitude for parents and coaches to foster in young skaters, one which will help keep the enjoyment in skating and lower some of the frustration that leads to skaters quitting when they don't always win.

The Second interpretation is what I see as the dangerous one: where the skater is told (and may come to believe) that she/he is The Best Skater Out There and that the only reason that she/he didn't win is because somehow the cards were stacked against her/him; the other skaters were older/younger/been in the level longer/had better skates or a prettier dress or a bigger name coach/choreographer or the judges were biased/blind/stupid/cold/hungry/drunk and just didn't recognize True Brilliance when they saw it. (And believe me, I've heard all of those, from parents and from coaches, who certainly should know better!). Whatever the reason it takes the emphasis away from what the skater actually did and throws it onto something that is outside of the skater's control. I think that the speaker intends to comfort the skater (at least I hope that's the intention!) but the effect is often that the skater ends up believing that competition results are totally whimsical and that nothing they do, and no improvements they make will change them, unles they somehow find the Magic Formula that the winning ones obviously found and are keeping to themselves. And that perception leads to increased frustration and disillusionment and resentment. And then the joy of skating is gone.

For that reason, I make it a point to never focus on a result when I talk about placements. If I ask a skater how they did in the last competition, and she tells me placement, I rephrase the question "But how did you skate?" and try to get her to think about what she actually did or didn't do with no mention of anyone else. And any mention of "the judges" as if the panel is a science-fiction creature with many bodies but one brain I discourage.

99% of all the kids in Learn-to-skate programs will never make it to Nationals, let alone win there. Most of them will never even make it to any qualifying competitions anywhere. So the purpose of the competitions they do do - especially the Basic Skills one - should be on having fun and measuring one's skills, not against another person's, but against oneself. If coaches and parents can teach that skill alone, then I think they've succeed in creating not just a better skater but a better person.

No matter how good you are, there will always, eventually, be someone better coming along sometime. Medals are nice but they're not the be-all-and-end-all of the sport.

End lecture. That's enough philosophizing for a Friday morning.

Indeed, and, as you know, BlueIIIMoon, I totally agree with you! I would remind skaters at any level, from the very first competition right up to senior internationals, that you can't control how the other skaters perform, you can't control how the judges think - all you can do is go out there and try to skate your best. And enjoy it!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

That is how I meant. Everyone falls, everyone has an off day, there is someone always better than you at some point.There HAS to be a first and a last place if you choose to do comps.Dont do it for the medal, but for the experience.
Also just do YOUR best !!

I think it is also important to explain to kids that everyone sees things in different way. What the skater sees standing at the boards waiting to skate can be comletely different from what the judges see from the other side of the rink. We also do not always have an accurate picture of what we look like. Have you ever caught a glimpse of yourself in a mirror, perhaps in store, and not really recognized yourself or been shocked at how slumped over your shoulders are? While skaters work on body awareness and presentation, the reality is is that they can't SEE themselves when they skate. Parents and coaches also have a lot invested in the skater and I think tend to see what they want to see rather then perhaps what another observer might see. It is like proofreading your own work, you tend to read what should be there rather than what is actually written. This is not to say the judges don't have bias and that all is lovely and fair in figure skating! However, I agree with the previous two posters in stressing to kids to do their best and learn from the experience and don't get too wrapped up in the medals.