After Reading The Responses Of "How Much Is To Much", I Wonder If It Is Possible For Average Working People To Have Thier Kids In This Sport And Be Able To Excel In It. Does Anyone Know Of Any Figure Skaters Out There That Have Made It Far On A Less Then Modest Income? Or Are Our Kids Entering In On A Rich Mans Sport?

In the US, figure skating is an expensive sport. More if your skater wants to test and even more if s/he wants to compete.
You can save money in many ways, but you can't get out of paying for good skates, lessons, and ice time.

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Depending on what you would call successful, there have been a number of examples of successful skaters (say, national medalists) from "blue collar" backgrounds, even in recent history. In those cases it takes a lot of sacrifice, support, and donations. In many cases there is a astonishing level of debt too.

Whether this is a sensible path to take is a topic of fierce debate, even inside those families. I'm familiar with skating-induced divorce, for example. In other cases it seems to draw the family closer together.

Skating families like to joke that they get the learning experience of hovering on the edge of bankruptcy for ten years, and like all jest there is an element of truth in that.

From my unscientific experience, there is a far lower level of wealthy families involved in skating than the general public believes. Like most news, only the outliers are publicized: the ultra-rich and the ultra-poor. In the US at least, I think the core of skating comes largely from the middle class. But skating is hardly an expenditure that is easy for a middle-class family to afford.

Unlike many other elite athletics, skaters don't have the opportunity to earn, say, a scholarship from a division one school. Or, for the most part, sponsorships.

As a result, funding your athletes skating is a real conundrum for many families.

I live on a pretty modest income, although it's all relative. It's a struggle for both of us to skate. She wears second hand practice clothes (and sometmes competition dresses) - most of her skates were second hand and I havent bought any new furniture for 25 years.

j

recreational, once a week Oct to May : Yes for sure

testing : just about.

competitive to higher levels: I doubt it! Of course an exception might exist but 99% I say NO.

I think that the sport progressed so much technically and it picks in such an early age that you have to put tons of money early on. And it is not just ice time: smart choreography, pillates, ballet, personal yoga teacher and the list keeps going on. Never the less it seems that plenty of people afford to do it. I think that can be said for a lot of other sports too. Skiing comes to mind and gymnastics. To be an elite athlete today comes with a big price tag. The cheapest sport right now might be soccer because it is still building up in USA so it's not gone totaly elite yet. In Europe countries have "federal organizations" that substidize clubs expences and most athletes get some kind of help. I am always finding this fact fascinating!!!!! Immagine !

sorry for double post.

Can someone with little spare income afford to have their kids learn and enjoy the sport of figure skating? Yes, absolutely. And I would suggest ISI for this, for a number of reasons. a) it's cheaper to join, test, and compete. b) the tests are less demanding so there is less need for lesson and ice time, as well as the coaches who coach ISI only usually have better rates, and since you can only compete the elements on the test and not higher elements, you have a better chance to progress without needing as much and c) it is geared towards recreational skating, so you won't be the only one with limited funds.

Can someone produce an athlete that has the potential to go to Nationals, or in general have a chance at being competitive in the Novice-Senior divisions in the more popular regions? No. Unless you find a sponsor (which you'll have a hard time doing without acquiring some good results in the levels which you most likely won't be able to get without money to begin with), or unless you have some extraordinary circumstances such as a coach that doesn't charge you or something of the sort...it will be, I would say, absolutely impossible. Skating at the Novice-Senior levels to be competitive costs upwards of 50k per year. There's no way to do it unless you have heaps of help, and heaps of money to spend on the sport. Because the reality of the fact is...that many, many people have that much money to spend. So, considering how much of this sport comes through repetition and muscle memory, even a kid with less talent will go farther with more lesson and ice time than someone with more talent but less of each. And let's not forget that good boots and blades cost about 1,500k a year, and that's just enough for the skater not to get injured.

Yes, skating at the elite levels IS a "rich man's sport", and while being PC and saying there are other ways to enjoy the sport is something many will try to do, I personally think it's better to be honest upfront so that you know what you can and cannot do right from the get go, lest you waste money trying and find out in Intermediate that your kid has to quit because you just can't afford it anymore.

Good luck, and I would suggest that you look into ISI. Their program is very rewarding for everybody, and it definitely doesn't require the same kind of money as the USFS does.

There's always winning the lottery, or the early demise of a grandma/grandpa...

Let's not forget about the cost of lost childhood, also. Right now, I am trying to find the balance between giving her all she needs to succeed, and still allowing her to have a childhood that is not full of lessons and training. That, on top of finding creative ways to finance it all!

Most of the skaters I know don't seem to view it that way. They view their childhood as being enhanced not deprived. They feel they got to do things that other kids never got to do, made friends all around the world, etc. They often make comments about typical childhood being filled with hours of TV or video games or other less than fulfilling activities. They frequently speak of the joy of dedicating one's early life to a challenging and fulfilling task.

Whether your agree with this view or not (remember, I'm reporting what elite skaters have told me), I note also that skaters are disproportionately successful in later life careers. I'm told, for example, that colleges understand that ex-skaters frequently make outstanding students and thus view skating as a attractive feature in admissions.

Certainly you will hear anecdotes about skating having "ruined" someone's life. You will also hear the anecdotes about overdriven parents forcing reluctant skaters to abandon their life to skating. But from my knowledge these anecdotes do not represent the typical experience of elite skaters.

This sport put my parents in debt. I know after I made it past Regionals, my parents took a second mortgage out on their home in order for me to continue skating. My mom also worked a graveyard shift at the local grocery store several days a week in addition to her regular job. THey would always say to me.."anytime you decide you dont want to do this anymore, let us know". When I was old enough, I worked at the rink to help defray the cost of ice time in addition to my coach giving me discounted prices for lessons. It was rough. Now that Im older and obviously didnt make it to the olympics, I have asked my parents if they had any regrets about my skating in the past and the financial turmoil it created. They say absolutly not. They wanted to give me every oppertunity I could have to accomplish my goals. I on the other hand knew that my college fund was liquidated to pay for my skating. I am still paying off my student loans for school. All of which I am grateful for my parents sacrifices. On the same note, not to be harsh, but I as a coach dont make promises to my students parents that are unrealistic. Everyone thinks their kid has olympic potential but the reality is that only one in a big huge number will make it to that level. I make this clear to the parents because someone didnt do that for me. I treat them all as champions because they are, but the 4 hours a week recreational skater understands that there is a better chance of being struck by lightning. The parents are appreciative with my honesty.

In ref. to Goldjudge's post, in the UK, the NISA site has a "Talent ID table" which shows the criteria for identifying talent in kids and therefore how likely it is that they'll go to the Olympics. A US equivalent might be helpful for that.

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I would love to see that. If it's not available to outsiders, can you post some of it, or PM it to me?

Goldjudge3 - Your parents are priceless! My parents did something similar for me, in roller dance, which was truly a sport without a future, even for the most talented (and I was far from that). It was my passion, and they felt it kept me fit and focussed, so they did without more than I ever imagined for me to continue skating until I left for college (when I gave it up completely, on my own).

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I would also dearly love to see that....any chance of pm-ing or emailing?

I googled and found the NISA site and what looked like a talent ID table, but it wasn't criteria for determining talent, but instead showed which tests/comps had to be passed/won in order to progress. It's possible I didn't find the right table (which is an Excel spreadsheet, although it downloads without a file extension).

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It's possible..my parents did it. in fact, my dad was working and my mom was a stay at home mom. But soon my mom went to work and basically her entire income went to paying for skating. My parents didn't have a morgage, so I'm sure that helped.

We never took vacations, we never had a new car, we didn't get designer clothes. I know my parents went into debt. Luckily, over the years my dad worked himself up in the company and was able to get to management.

they gave up a lot but they were so proud of my brother (I quit when I was 13 to pursue music) and what he accomplished in the sport. I got music, and yes, they were rpoud of me when i graduated with my music degree.

JP- I see you are replying from Canada, though. Both the financial situations and level of competition are far different out there. I don't know if your brother won titles in the USA or Canada, but it's a completely different ballgame. At that, it would help to know which country the OP is posting from to have more accurate answers.

My brother was at the senior level. His costs, living at home, were in excess of 30,000. Would have been more if he lived away. As he got higher up, he could at least drive himself to the arena..but because his training centre was almost a 2 hour drive each way, he really couldn't have a job, except a bit on weekends. Basically, my parents paid for the car, gas, as well as expenses any teen/young adult would have.

And yes, my parents also paid for my education...another 10-15 thousand a year.

Are the costs higher or lower in the States ? I am in Canada and am assuming by your reply that they are higher. Why ? ( Just being nosy here )

In response to the talent ID table:

It takes a large pool of athletes to generate a few champions. Nobody knows in the beginning who will truly make it. I do not know the exact statistics but let say for the one Olympic champion 20 (or 100) kids need to be in the system of advanced training. So even if your kid is RIGHTFULLY identified as talented and full of potential still the chances of making it are slim. Usually sports success is a pyramid, large base, very small apex. So everybody needs to be prepared for the scenario of failure not only money wise but emotionally too. And I believe that’s a killer for the kid that is so close, almost there but for some reason things don’t work. Investment wise is bad idea to train an elite athlete, the odds are against you. Having said that I also believe that there are numerous advantages one can get by being an elite athlete that are not measured with placements and gold medals. I think the degree of sacrifice should balance with the benefits and I do not talk about money only. The idea that you do the best for you kid because you sacrifice is equally bad to the one that you can get something but not sacrificing at all!! It is a very difficult act of balancing and my respect to all families that are going trough.

I better not respond to why skating is more expensive in USA …..

I have a friend who is a cousin to a current world level competitor. She seems to be a well rounded young lady who is doing really well in the skating world. I imagine that if she was asked, she would answer exactly this. But my friend has also told me she remembers vacations where all the cousins would go somewhere to play, and the skater would be crying- because she had to go to the rink. She also told me there were many times where the skate said she didn't LIKE skating- though I imagine those might have been childhood fits (we all say things like that as kids) and her aunt was really pushy about making sure the skater succeeded.

For those who do end up succeeding- yep, it was probably worth it.

But is elite level training for kids worth it for those who don't end up doing well? My sister trained in gymnastics just below the elite level. She says she wouldn't trade it for anything, but that she always wonders what it would have been like to get to do a little of everything. Oddly enough, I- who did a little of everything- wonder what it would have been like to be great at one thing.


As for blue collar- I really don't know. I guess I work a white collar job, but I can't see being able to balance a competitive skaters (even at a mid level) expenses with household expenses on my salary. Gosh- I teach LTS so I can afford ice time as is!

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-Jessi
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Why ? I am just wondering if it is cost ? Quality of coaching ? What ?

I think this has been true, to some extent, at least since the 1930s. First it was all the hours and hours of ice time per day perfecting school figures that were necessary to succeed competitively. Later it was off-ice training, fancier costumes, and specialized choreography as well as training triple jumps and now level 4 spins etc. for freestyle success. Probably the 1980s had the highest demands on both ends.

And of course one of the biggest expenses is traveling to competitions.

If you happen to live near a rink where you don't have to spend hours a day commuting just for few hours of ice time, in an area where you can get experience competing at several club competitions a year that don't require plane trips or hotel stays, and at a club where if you do have to travel far to qualifying competitions once or twice a year there will be other skaters to share the coach's expenses with, it will cost a lot less for the same level of success than if you live somewhere more isolated and have to spend more time and money on actually getting to the rinks than you spend on the ice.

Also, I wouldn't think in terms of "blue collar" or "white collar" because at middle income levels (enough to spend money for serious recreational sports, not enough to fund an elite competitive skating career), some blue collar workers earn more than some white collar workers.

I have noticed that the cost of coaching in the US is far more expensive than in Canada. Here, skate canada sends out guidelines that suggest what a coach should charge according to thier qualifications (Level 1-4). For example, my daughter's coach is level 1. She charges 6.00 for a 15 minute lesson. Another of her coaches is level 3, she charges 8.50 for lower level skaters, 9.00 for higher level. If you look at the Mariposa school of skating website, Doug Leigh (who is among the top coaches in Canada) charges $22.00 for a 15 minute lesson.

Check out some skating club websites from clubs that are in the states and you will see that their coaching costs are generally much higher.

Also, in general, Ice Costs here in Canada are more reasonable and a majority of clubs rent ice on behalf of their skaters. In the area where I live, there is no coaching/figure skating moves allowed on public ice time.

I also notice that a little more is spent by american parents on costuming, choreography, etc. for skaters that are younger.

In my region, kids that are in CanSkate do not get to do solo's. There are competitions, however, they all go out and do the same circuit.

I glad that parents think their kids can achieve anything. I think that is a very positive motivator for kids.

Of course, though, on the other hand there are unrealistic expectations too. It's a problem when expectations strongly mismatch potential. It seems like most parents learn to better align the two as the skaters move up the ranks (or don't move up the ranks).

Getting to the Olympics is as rare as getting hit by lightning. It's tough even if you set your sights lower: in the US there can be 120 intermediate ladies at one regionals fighting for one of four to six slots to junior nationals. Those are long odds.

But I don't think unrealistic expectations are primarily responsible for keeping parents paying the big bills. Instead, for the most part, the skaters truly love to skate.

Us skating parents like to chuckle, as we sit in the stands at competitions, about the stereotype about the evil skating mom (or dad) who forces their unwilling child to skate. In truth, most of us are like: "Are you sure you really want to keep skating? If you stopped skating we could maybe get new carpet, or maybe even trade in the junkheap car with 200,000 miles on it and get something newer".

And maybe there is another factor. We your skater gets to a certain level, like say that of being a junior-level or senior-level national competitor, you really like to want him/her skate. It's really amazing to see a kid of yours (who otherwise slouches around the house, has a dirty room, and looks just like every other teenager) do something so beautiful that well. Where does it come from?