Can't stay on "the sweet spot"

Nikki719 · #1 09-16-2009, 07:04 PM

This is just another of my numerous problems with my spins. I just started working on freestyle 3 but my basic one foot and scratch spins still leave a lot to be desired.

I'm having trouble staying on the sweet spot of the blade after the first rotation. The pattern on the ice is showing that I find it and then end up rocking back and forth between it and my toepick. I feel like it starts when I go to lock my spinning leg straight. My instructor explained that the skating foot should be in the same position as it would be in high heels and I have no problems with wearing heels. My calf muscles have always been very strong so I'm a little perplexed as to why my spins are so weak.

Any suggestions?

caffn8me · #2 09-16-2009, 07:38 PM

Are you subconsciously trying to grip your boot by clenching your toes? That can affect spins markedly. You should have toes relaxed and straight in the skating foot.

Sarah

techskater · #3 09-16-2009, 08:19 PM

You should never LOCK you spinning leg. It should be straight but not locked. Your rise up should be even and relaxed.

Skate@Delaware · #4 09-16-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techskater

You should never LOCK you spinning leg. It should be straight but not locked. Your rise up should be even and relaxed.

My coach has me hyperextend my leg when I'm in position, not lock it.

Are you straight or bent over front/back side/side in any way? I had the devil of a time traveling and there are several things that can make you travel:
-not entering on a deep enough edge, or with the knee bent enough
-whipping around too fast with the free leg (when it's behind)
-rising up too quickly
-bringing the free leg across too fast, keep it to the side a bit until you've centered, about 1 revolution (minimum)
-arms too far back
-core not kept in a strong position
-body not "stretched" out, as in you should feel like your whole body is being pulled from above
-clenching toes or stretching them up can keep you off your sweet spot and get you traveling

If you lose it after straightening up, maybe you are popping up too quickly. Hard to say without actually seeing it tho.

dbny · #5 09-16-2009, 09:41 PM

I have an exercise I devised for that exact problem. It has helped me and now also helped one of my students with the same problem. Skate somewhat slowly backwards, into a 2 foot glide. Then pick up what will be your free foot when you spin, into passe position and rise up onto the spin spot on your skating foot. Hold it as long as you can. This is really hard to do! When you have managed several attempts in which you find the spin spot and maintain it even for just a few seconds, begin your spins.

Nikki719 · #6 09-16-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skate@Delaware

Are you straight or bent over front/back side/side in any way? I had the devil of a time traveling and there are several things that can make you travel:
-not entering on a deep enough edge, or with the knee bent enough
-whipping around too fast with the free leg (when it's behind)
-rising up too quickly
-bringing the free leg across too fast, keep it to the side a bit until you've centered, about 1 revolution (minimum)
-arms too far back
-core not kept in a strong position
-body not "stretched" out, as in you should feel like your whole body is being pulled from above
-clenching toes or stretching them up can keep you off your sweet spot and get you traveling

Oh my gosh, I have all of these problems to some extent. I have a spinner at home that has really helped me get use to the feeling of spinning. I've also been able to notice some posture issues. For instance, I've been that I need to arch my back more in everything I do on the ice and that I also tend have my chin tucked. When I use my spinner and correct the arch and chin, I completely lose my balance. It's weird.

Nikki719 · #7 09-16-2009, 09:53 PM

Skate somewhat slowly backwards, into a 2 foot glide. Then pick up what will be your free foot when you spin, into passe position[/QUOTE]

Sorry for the juvenile question. But can you explain the passe position?

dbny · #8 09-16-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikki719

can you explain the passe position?

Lift your knee up and point your toe down while holding your free leg close to your skating leg. You don't have to lift your free knee high at all, just free toe to skating ankle will do it.

Skate@Delaware · #9 09-17-2009, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikki719

Oh my gosh, I have all of these problems to some extent. I have a spinner at home that has really helped me get use to the feeling of spinning. I've also been able to notice some posture issues. For instance, I've been that I need to arch my back more in everything I do on the ice and that I also tend have my chin tucked. When I use my spinner and correct the arch and chin, I completely lose my balance. It's weird.

I have had ALL of them, so I can speak from experience LOL! I have a spinner but it only helped me for backspins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbny

Lift your knee up and point your toe down while holding your free leg close to your skating leg. You don't have to lift your free knee high at all, just free toe to skating ankle will do it.

So one is standing like a stork does?

Nikki, I read your other post about your jumps being off which makes it sound like your blade mounting is not right. If you are not taking off correctly it can ruin the whole jump and you fight to land it as well.

Do you have the means to video & post the vids for us? Spins (2-foot, 1-foot & scratch) and waltz, salchow jumps too? That would be very helpful.

Nikki719 · #10 09-17-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skate@Delaware

I have had ALL of them, so I can speak from experience LOL! I have a spinner but it only helped me for backspins..

Why does it not help you with regular spins?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skate@Delaware

Nikki, I read your other post about your jumps being off which makes it sound like your blade mounting is not right. If you are not taking off correctly it can ruin the whole jump and you fight to land it as well.

Hmm, I know nothing about blade mounting. How can you tell? Could you tell just from looking at the skate? I've been blaming my inability to rock from my heel to my toe on weakness but I can do this without my skates on just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skate@Delaware

Do you have the means to video & post the vids for us? Spins (2-foot, 1-foot & scratch) and waltz, salchow jumps too? That would be very helpful.

I'm in the middle of a move from chicago to vancouver right now. Once I'm settled I'll be looking for a new rink and instructor but I won't be skating for the next month and I don't have any existing vids - (Only just got a digital camera) Plus, I'd probably be so embarrased by my lack of skill. I could always make some vids of spinning on the spinner so everyone can see my goofy posture.

Isk8NYC · #11 09-17-2009, 11:14 AM

Find a good sharpening professional.

They can check the blade alignment and tell you if your blades were sharpened correctly.
There are nightmare stories about not being able to spin after a sharpening because the rocker was shaved off.

ETA: Also, you should have a discussion about "Radius of Hollow" with your sharpening professional. It might be time to transition from a shallow beginner's ROH (5/8") to a deeper freestyle ROH (1/2")

When was the last time you had your blades sharpened?

kayskate · #12 09-17-2009, 11:16 AM

Your toe pick will probably graze the ice.
Try the spin in slow mo and "explore your blade". Consciously think about your foot and how it is contacting the ice. Alter your balance slightly. Try bending your knee. Exaggerating your knee bend will get you on the sweet spot if you keep your core tight and body erect. Once you feel the sweet spot, try it will a straighter more relaxed knee. I agree w the poster who said do not lock it.

Kay

Skate@Delaware · #13 09-17-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikki719

Why does it not help you with regular spins?
Not for me...

Hmm, I know nothing about blade mounting. How can you tell? Could you tell just from looking at the skate? I've been blaming my inability to rock from my heel to my toe on weakness but I can do this without my skates on just fine.
boots are stiffer, in street shoes or barefoot it's much easier to adjust your weight front to back and side to side. One cannot tell from looking (usually unless it's really bad) at a mounting if it's "off" however, next time you are on the ice, stand at the boards and gently rock front to back and feel for your rocker, then do it again and as you rock, gently wiggle your blades so they scrape the ice. As you do this you will find the spot that doesn't scratch the ice as much...THAT will be your sweet spot. Do this several times on each blade (separately at first then both feet together). Eventually you will get the "feel" for it in a more natural way.
I'm in the middle of a move from chicago to vancouver right now. Once I'm settled I'll be looking for a new rink and instructor but I won't be skating for the next month and I don't have any existing vids - (Only just got a digital camera) Plus, I'd probably be so embarrased by my lack of skill. I could always make some vids of spinning on the spinner so everyone can see my goofy posture.

NEVER apologize or be embarrassed for lack of skill or experience! We have ALL been there and have started from basic skills and worked our way up. Let us see your spinner posture and we can analyze that, it might help you when you hit the ice later on.

Isk8NYC · #14 09-17-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikki719

Sorry for the juvenile question. But can you explain the passe position?

As S@D said, it was a good question - I've never heard of a "passe position" in skating, either. (Is it a ballet term, perhaps?) There are different names for the same manuever. My first ISI coach (a former ballerina) used to call a raised-knee spin position a "Pique Spin." I never found out why and I seem to be the only person who ever learned that name. Must be a regional thing.

The position being described is simply a one-foot BACKWARDS glide in the "pick up" position. You want to do this while moving backwards because (1) you could fall if you rock up to the toepick while travelling forward; and (2) you spin on a back inside edge anyway.

Glide, then shift your weight to one foot and raise your knee in front of you, allowing the toe of your now-free foot to touch the inside ankle of your skating boot. Keep the toe pointed down so you keep control. Holding the edge on the rocker is really tricky, but it does help build control.

I use a similar drill for edge jumps - begin the entry position, check, then hold the edge until the skater stops instead of taking off. It builds upper-body and edge control. Ditto for sit spins - a BI shoot-the-duck is a safer drill than millions of bad spins.

doubletoe · #15 09-17-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techskater

You should never LOCK you spinning leg. It should be straight but not locked. Your rise up should be even and relaxed.

Exactly. On an upright spin, you need to keep your knee a tiny bit bent and press the ball of your blade harder and harder into the ice as you gain speed in the spin. Otherwise, the momentum will pull you right up off of the rocker and onto the toepick.

londonicechamp · #16 09-19-2009, 04:01 AM

Hi Nikki719

Did you always get your one foot and scratch spin before?

Have you changed your skating boots recently? If you have, then the chances are that you are still to get used to the sweet spot. It does take a lot of practice to get used to the sweet spot. I have no problems finding the sweet spot, on my one foot and scratch spin, though I am still struggling to find it on my backspin. I just learnt my backspin recently.

And yes, you should never lock your knees.

londonicechamp

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