I had a nasty fall during a spiral sequence that my coach made me do. Let me be the first to say that I hate spirals with every fiber in my being and I see no point for a guy to do them. Well I tripped off my toepick while going forward in a futile attempt to lift my leg higher. I slammed down on my left hip while trying to protect my face. I am in all sorts of pain now and I'm not sure how serious it is. It hurts to put any weight on my left side so now I am limping when I walk. I soaked in hot water for an hour and it feels a little better but my coach is very concerned. I don't want to waste money going to see a doctor if it isn't necessary so I'm hoping that someone on this forum can help determine if I should go to the doc or not. The good news is that even though I fell, I pushed through the pain and finished the exercise. Can anyone offer any advice Thanks in advance.


BlackManSkating

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

Don't use heat right away - it's better for stiffness/soreness than for impact injuries.

R-I-C-E TREATMENT FOR THINGS THAT WENT BUMP ON THE ICE:

Rest: Get off the hip and stop walking around if you can for a while.
Ice: Get an ice pack and do 20 minutes with the ice, 20 minutes off. Repeat for at least a few hours.
Compression: Hips are tough to wrap, but try and put an ace bandage or similar on it to keep the swelling down.
Elevation: Rest on your other side so the blood flows away from the injured area.

If you're still in pain after several hours of RICE, get thee to a doctor, please.

Get well soon!

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I wholeheartedly agree with the RICE and would also add an anti-inflammatory as long as your heart/kidneys are in good shape. Ibuprofen (Advil) 600-800 mg taken every 8 hours with food is effective as is Naproxen (Aleve) 440 mg every 8 hours with food. I would give it a try for a day or two and then hightail it to the doctor if it doesn't help.

Hope you feel better.

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Happily defying the laws of physics when I skate...and not in a good way

If I could meet ole Axel Paulsen, I would kick him in the teeth

President and Founding member of the I hate Toe-Loops Club

Still a member, but trying to get out of the Pre-bronze peanut gallery.

Visit my skating journal

I agree with the above, plus......
Get some padding!! I'm looking into the SkatingSafe fall protection pads. I hope to order the spine protector this week- my butt/tailbone took a beating on both 8 step mohawk and sitspin the last few weeks.
But if you cannot at all put any weight on that hip- GET TO A DOCTOR STAT!!

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

Keeping my fingers crossed that your hip is just bruised and will be better after some R-I-C-E and Advil. (FX!)

Meanwhile, here are a few things that will keep this from happening again:
1. Before trying a spiral, warm up, stretch against the boards, then do a spiral position while holding onto the boards.
2. Consider trying a spiral position backwards before trying it forwards, since you can't have that toepick fall while going backwards (the worst that can happen is that your toepick will scrape and slow you down). If you find yourself pitching forward on the back spiral, that means you need to arch your back more and pull your hips back and push your skating foot forward. Once you feel stable, try it forward and focus on keeping all your weight on the heel.
3. Whenever you do a forward spiral, lift the toes of your skating foot inside the boot. I've never had a toepick-induced face plant since someone told me that trick a few years ago.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Blackman,

Do the "Rice." If you can sleep through the night you will probably be okay. Take some IBProfin to reduce the swelling. However, if it swells to an unbelievable size and you can't sleep, and no matter how you stand, or sit, or lie down it is still uncomfortable...skip the doctor and just go to the emergancy ward. I had this happen to me once and I just tore something inside. Don't worry in the end you will be okay and back on the ice.

Now, when you get back on the ice and start doing your spirals, again, which you will, please follow these rules:

When you are in a forward spiral, all the weight should be back on your skating heal, with your heal pushed out as far infront of you as you can hyper extend you knee on the skating foot...this way there is no way in hell that you will ever trip over your toe, again.

The reverse is true:

On a backward spiral, all of the weight shifts up to the ball of your foot.

I'm sure that you'll be okay...let us know if you get through the night.

Do you have full range of motion in the hip?? Did you actually fall on the joint (ball and socket area) or on the iliac crest?? The reason I ask, is that at the beginning of March I had a bad fall -- normally when I fall(even a bad one) I spring up and just continue -- after this fall, I did immediately get up, however, had to glide off the ice and once on land could hardly put any pressure on my right leg. As my lesson was in 30 minutes, I tried to stretch it out, however, when I attempted to get back on the ice and just do cross overs I couldn't put any weight on the right side when crossing over, in fact, couldn't cross the leg over at all. That evening it was so sore and I had no abduction. Cut a long story short, one week later I finally went to A & E for an x-ray and it showed I had chipped the iliac crest. The actual dx was an avulsion fracture of the iliac crest caused by the medial glutes and tensor fascia contracting so hard that they pulled the bone off the pelvis-- when I fell I actually fell directly on the iliac crest and felt a pop with quite a bit of pain!! In fact, it was very painful. I have been back on the ice for a couple of weeks now (jumping and doing flying camels), however, it is still sore ...let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks so much for all of the input. I have tried the RICE thing already and it seems like it's helping. I also took 600mg of IB so I don't feel a thing right now. Thank goodness there isn't any swelling.

Holy Moly!!!! That sounds crazy!!! I hope that isn't the case with me. It was a sharp pain initially and it did take me a while to get up. After the hot bath it was a dulling pain that only reoccured as I put weight on it. God, I hope I didn't crack or chip anything! It feels like I can sleep through the night with no problems now. I just had to sit down a lot at work because I want to rest it. I'll see how it is tomorrow and that will determine how long I stay off the ice, if I need to stay off at all. It's weird because I normally keep my weight on my heel while doing a spiral. But as my coach was encouraging me to lift up higher, I temporarily lost my edge and I rocked forward on the blade. Fortunately it wasn't a face plant but man it hurt to hit my hip like that. I just bought hip gel pads from my skate shop and I'll start wearing them under compression shorts. Most of my falls come from my jumps and I normally land on my God given padding with no problem. Spirals are something that I don't do often and once I pass this moves test, I hope to never do them again. Thanks to everyone who responded, I feel better about this minor setback already.

BlackManSkating

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

Ooh. . . Let me guess. . . Silver MIF? I think many men hate that test for the very same reason!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

You better believe it!!! I just want it to be over so I can move on with the rest of my skating. I've already accepted that I will not have a spiral like Sasha Cohen. Call me crazy but I think men should be exempt from doing spiral extensions on moves tests. I guess they serve some purpose other than extension. Maybe edge control, but I'm pretty sure they could create another exercise for that. I can do a camel spin. That should be good enough.

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

As another adult male skater, I have a different take on spirals. I decided early on that I was going to test both the standard and adult tracks, so I've been working on spirals from the beginning. Doing the stretching necessary to get a good spiral has helped the rest of my skating. Trying to maintain a good spiral position is a good workout for your lower back and glute muscles. I just passed the Preliminary MIF, which has the FO and FI Edge Spirals, so when I get to the Silver Moves (I also just passed Adult Bronze), the straight-line spirals will be a piece of cake, as I had to do them a long time ago on my Pre-Preliminary test.

Once I had the flexibility, I found that spirals were the most consistent element to put into a program. I find them rather easy, and am somewhat surprised at the crowd reaction to what I think is a simple element. I guess they don't expect a guy to be able to do a spiral. I still need to work on keeping the skating leg straight, though, especially when doing them on an edge.

Here's a forward outside spiral sequence from my last competition:

http://www.metroedgefscphotos.com/Ic...vent16/?page=4

I was told by someone who was on the committee that when USFS was still deciding what should be on the Adult Moves, there was talk of putting the Alternating Spirals on either the Silver or Gold Test/ Apparently someone pointed out that might/would keep a lot of the men from moving up, so the idea was eliminated and they just put the straight-line spirals on the Silver Test.

Besides if those of us who are really inflexible women have to suffer through the spirals, so should the inflexible men.

Yeah, I hate spirals! I'm lucky to HAVE a hip level one myself...

BTW: If you can do a camel, how come you can't do a spiral??? It's the same spiral position, only 10 times harder b/c you have to SPIN with that spiral!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Camels are much easier than spirals because you have centrifugal force keeping you in the right spot!

You'll see spirals again at the Novice MIF test and the Senior MIF test, so learn to do them right now!

Well, I think a male skater performing a strong spiral is a BEAUTIFUL thing! I have worked hard both on and off the ice to get a very strong line. My spiral move on my Silver MIF test was my highest marked move.

I practice my spiral positions off ice and have found when I can hold them steady off Ice, they are easier to perform on the ice.

Focus on the strength it takes for a spiral and not the flexibility, IMHO. I feel this is why so many females have weak spirals.....not enough strength.. You must have strong leg, lower back, and core muscles to perform a strong spiral.

Everything has a reason.....every move we do on the ice is a piece of the puzzle. The tests are designed to develop all aspects of skating. Strong line is very important. Good luck

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Why are you skating so slowly? Get out of my way!

If you skate faster, it makes everything look better!

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Spirals are as important for the guys as they are for the ladies. As MSF has pointed out, it develops several important muscle groups that are utilized in every aspect of skating.

In addition, spirals can be a very valuable part of a program, particularly for the men, if you can do them well because it can stand out for the judges. This year I did a serpentine spiral sequence in my program with four lobes, inside and outside edges on both feet including a Y-spiral. When I competed at the New Year's Invitational in Ashburn a few months ago, I asked the judges for some feedback on my program. A couple of the judges stepped out of the judges' room to speak to me. At first they weren't sure who I was and where I skated in the event order. Once I had told them my name and that I had skated third, one of the judges said to me "Oh, you're the guy that did the spirals." The other judge then said "Yes, they were very nice." They went on to give me feedback about other aspects of my program as well. However, my point is, they didn't remember my name, they didn't remember where I skated in my event, but they DID remember that spiral sequence. lol

Don't worry about being Sasha-esque in your spirals. However, I do believe it's important for guys to maximize their extension as much as possible and present a nice, clean line when they skate. It makes a world of difference.

Amen! Were it not for the spiral move (and the 2.9s that came my way), I would never have passed those silver moves!!!!

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

I was wondering about that, too. I would suggest doing them if for no other reason than to maintain enough flexibility to do camel spins without pulling a hamstring or glute. I pulled (or nearly pulled) one several times when I tried to do a camel spin without warming up first with spirals.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Yeah, I'll believe it when I *GET* a camel, I guess!!! (WAAAAAH!!! I want that CAMEL, darn it!!!)

(Actually, it does make sense for me for the sit spin, since I CAN do a pretty decent sit spin, but there's NO WAY IN HELL I can do a "shoot the duck"/teapot.)

And yes, I do like it when the men do spirals in their program. It's a beautiful thing to watch. (And yes, despite the comments that men are less flexible than women, the OPPOSITE is true here at my rink!!!)

Heck, I prefer watching MEN skate, but that's just me! LOL!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

This was the exercise I was doing. I was doing alternating Forward Backward Spirals on Outside and Inside edges when I took my nasty spill. I guess my legs were starting to get tired so my position wasn't as strong as when I first started the exercise. Yeah I know you are all right about men doing spirals. It is definitely beneficial but in my definition of a perfect world, they wouldn't be. But trust me, I'll get over it.

That is awesome that you include spirals in your programs. I probably won't do it unless by some miracle I get flexible enough to get one higher than my hip with substantially good line and form. If it doesn't look good to me, then chances are I won't include it. I am my worst critic and I am using a standard set by the pros. It's probably better than I think it is. The reason I dislike them is because I don't believe I can do them well. But I am confident that will change over time.

Well when you go into a camel spin at full speed, the centrifugal force almost pulls your leg into position. It is far easier to maintain the line then when you are only using your muscles to hold the position. If you enter the spin correctly, you get a lot of power and it's almost harder to keep your leg below hip level. I hardly focus on my leg position when I go into the camel spin. I focus on balance and centering instead. The spiral position almost happens on its own.

BlackManSkating

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

Trust me Jazzpants, you'll get there. I found that a camel spin easier than a sit spin. For most people I've spoken to, they say the opposite. I'm still trying to get my back sit to be as fast and as centered as my forward sit. So chances are, I would probably be quite envious of your sit spin.

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

Great news!!!! The R.I.C.E. thing helped me tremendously. I went out on the ice today and I was doing axels. I was nervous about the take off because of my left hip, but I had no problem taking off and transferring to my right side. It's slightly sore but it's fine. I don't see a bruise either. I think this one was just a close call. My coach was nervous about me being on the ice so quickly but after seeing me skate at full speed doing mohawks, 3-turns, and a few brackets on my left leg, he let me continue. Thanks again everybody!!!! You guys are the truth!!!!


BlackManSkating

__________________
Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

I'm trying not to laugh about the comment, but I am laughing about it only b/c 1) I've been trying to get a good spiral position for AGES and 2) BOTH my coaches main annoyance about my camel spins is that I can't get the free leg INTO position. Even with the centripetal force going on.

Yes, my spiral positions are THAT bad!!! I doubt I will ever pass Silver Moves just b/c of THAT spiral alone! However, I still try to do my spirals at the wall and on the bar and stretch a lot... It's a little bit better now than before, which is giving me hope that someday I will have a passing spiral for Silver Moves.

Sounds to me like you need to do some off-ice spiral exercises, blackmanskating! Try do this: Do doing a set of spirals where you're lifting and HOLDING the free leg for 20 seconds, then switch leg. Aim for 3 sets to start... then more time on the 3 sets (like 30 seconds.) Then go up a set, keeping 30 seconds on all but the last set (do 20 seconds) and then go up on time to 30 seconds again. Repeat 'til you get to 5 sets.

Also, have your coach watch and adjust you on the spiral position so you can get in the correct position and hold that position so you remember what it's supposed to feel like. (Yes, it's gonna HURT!!!)

Glad to hear that the RICE is helping 'ya!!!

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Well, I guess this was said above, but here it is again anyhow.
Men need camel spins, so you'll need to get your leg to hip height for that. Might as well work on spirals, so you can have good extension on your camel!

I'm glad you're feeling better today. Keep up the anti-inflammatories through tomorrow - you'll feel worse before you get better.


We should really resurrect an old/start a new spiral thread, but while we're on a tangent, here's my advice on beginning forward spirals:

Push into a spiral on a bent skating knee with the free leg lifted behind the skating leg.
...If you go into with a straight knee, you're just asking to perform a trip-and-fall sequence.
Arch your back from your head to your free foot - it should be banana-like.
...You'll feel the tightening in your upper buttocks and back of your neck.
Keep your arms even and out to the side.
...Why? Because it helps you balance. Uneven arms twist your upper body and can start an untimely 3-turn.
Pick up your chin and L K where you're going.
...I know it's scary, but keeping your head down makes you break at the waist and can trigger a trip.
Get your balance, then rise up by straightening the skating knee.
...Trust me on this one: bent knee lift, straighten the knee and lift more.
Keep your weight on/behind the ball of the blade.
...Doubletoe's "Lift Your Toes!" advice is dead-on correct.
POINT your free foot toe towards the ceiling; think of turning out your knee on that leg.
...Even if it's NOT higher than before, it will LOOK higher and impress more people. Good technique is its own reward.

The most important point is that the free leg should be BEHIND the skating leg. Many people open up their hip and put the free leg out to the side. That pulls your center of gravity away from the skating foot and makes you wobble like a Weeble. I(Unfortunately, most people DO fall down.) If you think about keeping it tucked behind you, you'll be able to hold the position better.

Not all of the success in spirals comes from flexibility; much has to do with strength. Try using light ankle weights (you might want to tape them in place for safety on ice.) when you stretch and practice. It helps strengthen those muscles faster.

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