#1
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Coaches - Caution For New Students?
In the past few weeks, I know of three adults at my rink who have been injured skating. Two were real beginners, and one had been skating a long time, but no prior lessons. Today, a 70 yr old woman I know most likely broke her wrist. I could have told her a month ago that skating is a bad idea for her, because her risk of injury was great and healing is very slow at her age, but I didn't. She is not and has not been my student, although I've helped her a bit, as her daughters were my group students. I just feel awful about it. Of course it was her choice to skate, but now I'm thinking about handing out a carefully worded caution note to any new adult students I take on. Have any of you done anything like this? Is this a bad idea? I don't want to scare away business, but I also do not want to encourage a sport that has a high likelyhood of causing serious injury in a certain portion of its participants. I'm 61 myself, and know how hard it is to get on with a cast and to recover after 50. To clarify, I'm not talking about people who consider themselves skaters or who aspire to be skaters, just thinking of those who want to persue it recreationally, as in skating around and around. There are many other, safer, things they can do.
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"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus - and non-believers." Barak Obama, 44th President of the United States of America
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#2
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I teach beginning adults. I have never had any as old as you mentioned, most are in their 30s, if not younger, and are parents of children in LTS.
We do not really caution them on the dangers of the sport, though if I see their balance is lacking I recommend a helmet for the 2nd lesson (no one ever has one on the first day). I guess my experience is that every (non-athletic- the college student at our rink who got his axel in a year doesn't count) adult is terrified of getting hurt. I have never met anyone who doesn't recognize the danger that goes along with the sport. Personally, I spend more time reassuring them that while people DO get hurt, the majority of skating accidents are not serious. I don't know what kind of warning you could give a beginner in a letter that wouldn't just be fear mongering, because for every broken wrist, rib, or ankle, there are thousands of falls that don't hurt or only bother you for a few days.
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-Jessi What I need is a montage... Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009) |
#3
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Three adults on my synchro team have had injuries involving broken bones - one wrist, one arm, and one leg. All were injured skating, although not during synchro. One woman is in her 40s, the man is over 60, the other woman is somewhere in between - closer to 60 than 40. They're all beginning skaters, and the injuries have affected their confidence to some degree. All did come back to skating, though.
We have not seen anywhere near these kinds of injuries with the kids, although they fall more often. I wonder whether this might be part of the issue? I seldom see adult skaters fall. I've learned to fall without trying to catch myself with my hands. Maybe adults who don't fall much don't get over that reflex and so are particularly vulnerable to broken wrists? That said, we have a gent at our rink who is in his mid-80s and still skates practically every day. Granted, he's been skating for years, but at his age he is pretty fragile. He seems to know his limits, though - he takes frequent breaks, and gets off the ice if the session is too crowded. |
#4
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I also teach adults, though the oldest are in their 40s, early 50s at the most. I assume these are group students. If so, they are probably receiving the same paperwork or release everyone else gets. If they are private, follow the same procedure as w your other privates.
I teach them to fall, stop, and do all of the basic moves kids learn in the LtS classes. I'm sure you do the same. I go a little slower w adults; though, IMO, they learn faster than typical LtS kids. This may be b/c they have longer attn spans &/or are more dedicated, etc. I have suggested helmets, crash gear, etc. I have also given the speech about the low probability of a fall resulting in serious injury. I went 30+ yrs before breaking anything. As adults, I tell them to skate w their heads. Don't skate faster than you can stop, etc. Good common sense stuff. I think it is enough, at least it works for me. Kay |
#5
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OK. Thanks for your input. I've made up my mind. I'm not going to encourage anyone over 50 who has never skated before (any kind of skating) and is not athletic.
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"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus - and non-believers." Barak Obama, 44th President of the United States of America
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#6
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Some group, some private.
__________________
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus - and non-believers." Barak Obama, 44th President of the United States of America
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#7
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Ugh -- I was at the rink when an adult beginner (probably late 50s) broke her wrist. On her writing hand. It wasn't pretty and I, honestly, wasn't surprised she had a bad fall. I assisted with that class occasionally and she seemed to be a very competitive type-A person -- a younger adult was taking the class with her and picking stuff up more quickly, but the older woman was very determined that she progress as quickly, even though she didn't have the balance, strength, or flexibility. Clearly her mind was willing, but her body was not. She hasn't been back...
There was another adult, probably closer to 65, who tried, too. She took an 8 week session and 4 weeks of another session and she never progressed beyond the "beginner shuffle." She spent hours going around the rink, holding the wall, panicking every time she let go. After 12 weeks, she finally decided that no matter how many different types of skates and combinations of padding she used, she wasn't ever going to be comfortable on the ice. I was sooo relieved when she stopped coming -- I really feared for her. And then the next week, her classmate (above) broke her wrist. All LTS skaters do sign a waiver and the above fall, no one was negligent -- she just caught a toepick and went down badly. But I do have to say that I always worry 100x more for adults who are clearly wobbly/scared than I do when kids are out there and wobbly/scared. And that includes my own toddler -- when he falls, he's totally relaxed, just whoosh! and he's on his bum, no harm, no foul. Although you can't STOP an adult skater from giving it a go, I really wish that there was some sort of aptitude test that weeded out the scary-scary beginners -- like, if you can't make a lap away from the wall, you really shouldn't think of this as a viable activity. |
#8
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You know, I had never thought about that before. I don't think I've ever had a student beyond their forties who hadn't skated before, at least on ponds as a kid or with their kids. My dad is 58, and my mom and I were just discussing a few months ago how we wish we had gotten him on the ice years ago, but we agreed it probably wouldn't be safe for him to start now (he's skated twice in his life, most recently in college, and is not super-coordinated).
Having not taught any older-than-usual adult beginners, I'd have to say the one who have worried me the most are the ones who are significantly overweight. Skating is a great way to get exercise and lose weight, but someone who's been very sedentary isn't likely to have the coordination and balance needed to learn to skate from scratch. It also makes it less likely that an instructor is going to be able to ease you into a fall more gently. I give heavy people all the credit in the world for getting out there and making the effort, but doing a few months of walking to get in better shape and yoga to improve coordination and balance will make it easier when you do get on the ice. More importantly, you'll be safer.
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Shae-Lynn and Victor: We knew you were champions, and on 3/28/03 the whole WORLD found out! Thank you for twelve wonderful years! |
#9
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My mother started lessons in her mid-seventies and did fine. She was legally blind, wore thick clothing and a thick knit hat and skated in the beginner group with the little kids (who LOVED her and watched out for her). She did fall a few times but was never hurt and she had the time of her life until she got stuck on mohawks and got too frustrated. I think she was 79 when she finally put the skates away for good.
Personally I never discourage anyone from trying skating regardless of their age. This past year I had a 30-year-old man who was more terrified of falling than the 55-year-old grandmother in the class with him. They both did fine eventually. And they had fun, which is why 90% of people take up skating in the first place. Also having started skating as an adult myself, I know - and I think most beginning adults know - that injury is a possibility in skating. I've had relatively few on-ice injuries myself (three in 25+ years). Also being in my 50s myself, I know that injuries can happen just about anywhere. The first thing I insist all my adults learn is how to fall. I do it off-ice first and then on ice first thing every week. They don't like it and they complain but it's the one thing I'm adamant about. It's also an opportunity to get in a little safety lecture - sooner or later everybody falls; you must know how. Then, when that first unexpected fall comes, they're not so traumatized. (It works with the little kids, too.) Also, as an AARP member, I'd like to say that there's nothing more offensive than being told you're "too old" to try something, or even just getting that vibe from an instructor. So coaches, please be careful. You can't judge what another person is capable of by their age and you shouldn't treat people differently just because they're older. |
#10
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Accidents can happen anywhere and I know as many if not more skaters who have had bad accidents (i.e breaking something) outside of skating than from skating itself.
As long as people are aware there are risks - as with any activity, even getting out of bed (don't most accidents happen in the home?) - then I don't think age should be any barrier to giving it a go. The people whose lives are probaby most affected by breaking something are probably those younger people with kids. At least the older people are probably not needing to look after anyone but themselves. |
#11
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The vast majority of skaters who skate at the same time as I do are in their 50s or older. Most of us will probably never be gold-level skaters, but we have great fun trying, and that's what matters. Most of the people I was skating with this morning started skating in their 40s or 50s, but haven't let that put them off.
One beginner is legally blind, although she does have some vision - she spent the first two years skating round clinging to her coach's arm, and even now doesn't get on much before her lesson or stay on much after it. She is beginning to strike out on her own now, though, and it's lovely to see! I think that there should be no maximum age to start skating; if group lessons aren't suitable, private lessons will be.
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Mrs Redboots ~~~~~~~~ I love my computer because my friends live in it! Ice dancers have lovely big curves! |
#12
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I wouldn't feel comfortable telling someone they shouldn't take a risk because of their age. I'd probably get a lecture about age discrimination. Other than a caution to wear a helmet and padding, I wouldn't dwell on it too much. Definitely not a handout unless it's a welcoming item with a small "awareness" message.
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Isk8NYC
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#13
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I also think people shouldn't be treated differently because of their weight. Someone mentioned over weight people and feeling the need to caution them or to suggest they prepare their bodies before taking up skating. TBH, I have a fair amount of weight to lose(I am not signifigantly over weight...but definately need to shed pleanty of weight). That said, I'm MUCH more active then my 96 pound friend. I'm in better physical condition then she is, eventhough I weigh more. Just because a person is thin doesn't make them more fit then someone who is over weight. I have a friend who is signifigantly over weight, yet she is VERY active. She rides 20+ miles on a bike, ski's, skates, walks, ect. If you're going to start cautioning over weight adults, you might as well start cautioning the skinny adults too. Weight does not indicate how active one is.
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skating mom to 3 angels on earth and 1 in heaven |
#14
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Shae-Lynn and Victor: We knew you were champions, and on 3/28/03 the whole WORLD found out! Thank you for twelve wonderful years! |
#15
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Thankfully, I've only had a few students who ever leaned on me as a coach, so it really hasn't been too much of an issue. Edit to add: I have never ever discouraged someone from skating if they wanted to give it a try. Merely that I know I personally have limitations in my coaching.
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-Jessi What I need is a montage... Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009) Last edited by Skittl1321; 05-22-2008 at 09:01 AM. |
#16
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Geez, I'm glad I didn't get these kinds of lectures when I started skating at age 39 since I had been sedentary and had never been on the ice before my first lesson!
I've had one broken bone from a fall (collision at a public session) in 5 years of skating, and a few other falls that were nasty (all but one from collisions on public session, the other was a spin entry gone bad). I'm 5-10 and 230 lbs, I've never expected a coach to be able (or try) to "ease a fall". It was quite clear to me that falling is a part of skating. I do agree that most adults (myself included) don't fall very often, or perhaps, often enough. If you are a coach I would assume your PSA insurance covers this kind of thing, eh?
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Gordon Zaft http://sk8rboi.blogspot.com School figures are skating's equivalent of the Latin Mass. |
#17
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I have pretty good techniques for shepherding beginner adults safely, and although I'm only 5'3", I've prevented falls by much taller and heavier adults. I'm very confident with students one on one. The problem is when you have more than one at that real beginner level, or when you leave them on their own. Some people get it pretty quickly, and I feel they are safe. Others just keep stepping ahead no matter what you say or do, no matter how you have them shift their weight to feel the skates under them. It's that stepping ahead that I've seen bring down quite few of all ages, and it's a very bad thing for a newbie to be doing. I want my new adult students to pick up their knees and put their feet down in place, I want their arms out and slightly in front, belly button height. I want them to be able to grab for their knees if they lose balance, and not sit back, but push knees down to center their weight. I want their gaze to be ahead and not down. I do allow, and even teach hovering a hand over the barrier, but no weight on that hand. It gives a little extra security, and if the arm is still in front and the right height, then no harm done. I don't expect F swizzles right away and often don't start them until the second lesson. Then I have them do just the push facing the wall, so they can grab it if necessary, and also to allay fear and keep the weight from going too far back, which is the risk in the first half of a F swizzle. You can see I've thought about this stuff a lot, and I work constantly at finding new teaching techniques, but I think I am coming to the conclusion that there are some people who should just not be on the ice.
__________________
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus - and non-believers." Barak Obama, 44th President of the United States of America
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#18
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Yes, it would. My concern isn't over getting sued, my concern is over what's going to give a sedentary, overweight skater the best chance to succeed. Obviously there have been and will be very heavy, sedentary adults who put skates on and do fine, but I've taught a lot who didn't, and the sad thing is, many of them have gotten discouraged at their lack of progress and not signed up again. Why not do everything possible to prepare your body for a new challenge like skating and give yourself every chance to succeed at it?
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Shae-Lynn and Victor: We knew you were champions, and on 3/28/03 the whole WORLD found out! Thank you for twelve wonderful years! |
#19
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And you might not have expected a coach to ease your fall, but many skaters- adults and kids alike will lunge and fall into you so they don't go down as hard. In addition, when you see an adult about to bang their head into the ice, if I can catch them to prevent that hard knock, then I will, I don't want my student to get a concussion. I don't care if my insurance might cover it if I was sued. I prefer to not only NOT be sued, but I want my students to be safe and enjoy skating. I never judged anyone for their weight or for being sedentary- but I do have limitations as a coach when the skater outweighs me by 100+ pounds. A tall man could easily do that- not even getting into overweight people
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-Jessi What I need is a montage... Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009) |
#20
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skating mom to 3 angels on earth and 1 in heaven |
#21
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__________________
Shae-Lynn and Victor: We knew you were champions, and on 3/28/03 the whole WORLD found out! Thank you for twelve wonderful years! |
#22
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This thread's making me think about Jackie Gleason - very heavy man, but incredibly light on his feet.
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Isk8NYC
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#23
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I can only thank God that my long-time coach doesn't subscribe to the the don't-coach-anyone-way-bigger-than me theory. She;'s a former national pair skater less than 5 feet tall and even at nearly 60 years old, she only weighs about 90 pounds. I would make two of her.
But then she doesn't attempt to catch me when I fall, nor does she hold me up - or attempt to - on tricky steps or turns. I don't do that with the skaters I teach - adults or kids - either. Balance is something you learn by doing. The kids in my programs use orange safety cones for support and I've been known to stack several cones to make them tall enough for an adult to hold on to at the start. But I do not hold skaters up, ever. I don't even encourage parents to hold their kids up during family skate. IMO, it's a good way for two people to get hurt instead of just one. I'm not even going to discuss the idea f suggesting overweight people take up another activity. That's just wrong and an invitation to a discrimination lawsuit. IMO. |
#24
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I also don't think anyone was talking about holding skaters up or attempting to break a fall on "tricky steps or turns". Everything I've said has been in relation to a true adult beginner who's never been on the ice before. I do get concerned when I have a student to teach who has never skated before and is much, much larger than I am. I'll have to remember your idea about stacking up the cones, I had never heard that one before.
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Shae-Lynn and Victor: We knew you were champions, and on 3/28/03 the whole WORLD found out! Thank you for twelve wonderful years! |
#25
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I have to say, it never EVER occurred to me, even when I was a beginner, that ANYBODY, coach or no...would think to try to hold me up or break my fall. That would make it worse for me. I don't even like it when my coach tries to help me learn something by having me hang on to her. Just get away from me and lemme do it myself is my attitude.
j |
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