Quick history - I had to pull out of Easterns in March because I was having terrible back spasms due to a bulging disc. After months of physical therapy and accupuncture, the disc went back into place and the back spasms ceased. Although I mostly concentrated on mitf, I also started including spins and jumps again - no pain. Two weeks ago, I began doing spirals (forward and backward outside, both legs) again, and noticed that old familiar twinging in my back again. It's been increasing each time I skate.

SO: does anyone have any experience with back spasms and spirals, and if so, do you have any exercises or particular stretches that could help me with this? I will do whatever it takes.

As always, I appreciate your help. I asked my PT about it, and she was completely lost as to what would help this.

I had back pain that I attributed to too much spiral practice and had to pull out of a competition too. The only thing that worked for me long term was chiropractic treatment. Physiotherapy didn't really help but the chiropractor was great and I rarely get so much as a twinge these days and if I do, I go back and see the chiropractor and he puts me right.

Of course your problem may be entirely different but it may be worth seeing a qualified chiropractor if PT is not helping you. They have a different approach so whereas PT generally concentrates more on building up supporting muscles (which is all good of course), the chiropractor can sometimes make a more direct 'adjustment' to the position of the bones. And can also recommend exercises too.

I think you should consider learning an Y or I spiral, maybe those will cause less problems for your back than the normal spirals.

I was wondering if that might help. It seems like 2 issues with a regular spiral - the arching of the back along with the muscle in my buttock needed to lift the leg.

I'm wondering if it would help to first strengthen the upper gluteus muscles without arching your back. You could lie on the floor on your stomach and lift each leg behind you and hold for a few seconds, alternating left and right. If that doesn't bother your back, add 2 lb. ankle weights, then 3 lb ankle weights (approximately the weight of a skate). I would imagine it would also be important to stretch out your back afterwards. BTW, what exercises did your PT give you to do?

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Are you sure you are lifting your free leg as high as it will go before bending at the waist? If you bend before you've achieved full height of the free leg, then you're using your back to do some of the lifting and that might be aggravating the condition.

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BTW not sure if this is any help, but I had a whiplash this spring and something in my neck moved. The manual therapist put the neck back in place, but now when I strain my neck muscles, they start pulling the neck back out of place and it starts hurting, giving me headaches, knacking etc. So the best suggestion I've had for it yet was to massage the muscles until they are warm and loose as soon as I notice them getting tight again (e.g. working behind a computer). If you say your disk was out of place in your back, I wonder if maybe the muscles are pulling your disk out of place again and maybe a hot bath and a massage would help? I've got NO clue about physical therapy and stuff, I'm just brainstorming here.

Re: Doubletoe's comments:
That is the type of exercise I was looking for! I am going to try it and see if it causes any pain. My pt has me doing stretches by lying on my stomach and pushing up onto my elbows, then fully extending my arms, holding that for 10 seconds and repeating 10 times. She also told me to start doing pilates, but a lot of the exercises on the dvd I have involve rolling on a rounded spine, which is EXTREMELY uncomfortable and even painful for me, even on a thick pilates mat (twice as thick as a yoga mat).

Re: DBNY's comments:
I didn't realize it, but I just went into a spiral the way I would on ice and I absolutely start bending way before the leg is all the way up. I didn't know that could cause a problem. So the technique should be to raise the leg up as far as I can bring it, and then begin my bend at the waist? I'll start doing that and see if it will help, or at least prevent further discomfort.

Re: Sessy's comments:
Tight muscles definitely affect the disc. I have to perform stretches before even getting out of bed in the morning, and I also am not allowed to do any straight-leg stretches - everything has to be with a knee bend when I bend forward. If I don't do at least 20 minutes of stretches after skating, I pay for it the next morning. And I'm religious about a hot bath after every skating session, as my Beijing-bred acupuncturist said that it was necessary to counteract the effects of cold, damp rink air on my joints and muscles. Don't know if it does too much, but with a few drops of essential Lavender oil, I'm in heaven.

On second thought, it might actually work the upper glutes better if you do the leg lifts in a standing position, like they do in ballet arabesques.
The point is not to lower your chest or arch your back like you would do if you were doing a full spiral position with the free leg above the hip. You don't need to get your leg as high as the girls in this photo, but the point is just to keep your torso still and upright and use the upper glute muscles to lift the free leg. Arabesque leg lifts

BTW, if you aren't allowed to do any forward bends with straight legs, how do you stretch your hamstrings? I can't imagine doing spirals without stretching my hamstrings first.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

A safe hamstring stretch I was given was to sit on the floor, bend one leg inwards (foot to crotch) and bend torso over the straight leg. Apparently this lessens the strain on the lower back, and prevents the disc from popping out as it might if you touched your toes with both knees locked. I also do assisted spirals on my kitchen counter, and hold the stretch gently.

Thanks to everyone for the tips. Doubletoe, I will definitely attempt those exercises and see what happens. I know that strengthening certain muscles is a part of this issue, so hopefully this will help.

What worked for me (so far...)

• Stretching....LOTS of stretching! Legs, lower back, torso, etc...
• Building core muscles, particularly lower back muscles (might want to find a PT or a personal trainer for this.) Pilates is good for this.
• Bend lower to the waist so your torso/chest is almost parallel to the ice. Arch your upper back so you don't tip over on your toe picks... Might want to practice this balancing act on the wall first to get a general sense of where your body should be and that you're comfortable with it before trying way out on the ice.
• Find a good chiropractor that has a background with sports medicine. (You don't want one that tells me to give up the skating....)
• Hot tub/jacuzzi or massage therapist

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Oh, good! That's the best hamstring stretch ever. My PT taught me that one as well. Good luck with everything!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Can some one give me a picture of that stretch please?

I don't have any tips, but I just want to tell you you're not alone. I have a herniated disc in my thoracic spine and can't do spirals anymore; in fact, spirals made it worse, so I am forever doing step sequences! I also can't do Pilates (or yoga) for the same reasons you stated.

Good luck, I hope it all works out for you!

It's actually even more effective if you do it standing, putting your foot up on a bench. Just make sure you bend with a straight back.

Oh, I could think of one more person to talk to on this board....

Where are you, herniated??? I know you can give some good advice too!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

first off ( I work in the area of rehab), I really think maybe you should look into seeing another PT, a PT with good clinical and manual skills should be able to help you better.

having recouped from a car accident this year and suffered my own share of muscle spasms, the best treatment for me was moist heat (heat pack) and stretching---lay on your back with feet down, then one at a time bend your knee and bring it to your chest and hold for 20 seconds, repeat with other foot. then do it with both your feet together brought to your chest. hope this all helps!!!

good luck and feel better.

Here it is:
Seated Hamstring Stretch

Be sure to keep your lower back arched, not rounded, so your stomach is close to your thigh. If this is difficult, you can sit with your back against a wall and push yourself away from the wall. You'll want to work towards eventually getting your stomach and chest flat to your thigh.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

I am thinking that I should find a different PT. She has been very thorough and kind, but her first response to me was 'Well, that's easy - just stop skating.' My answer was, 'Not an option - next!' And she was kind of at a loss from then on.
I'll make some calls tomorrow and see who has knowledge of this type of situation - someone who handles skaters or dancers, sports injuries, etc.

I really appreciate everyone's help in this - it's so depressing to feel this old pain coming back - a pain which kept me from SITTING in a chair for any longer than 15 minutes before having to lie flat on my back for an hour to recover. Not to mention traction, acupuncture sessions, heat packs, and those little electrode thingies 3 x week.

Of course I won't be a psycho and continue to push spirals if the pain continues to escalate, but hopefully I'll be able to head this off at the pass with proper stretches, muscle work and therapy.

One more thing that helps relieve the strain on the lower back is to bend your skating knee slightly just before bending at the waist, as you bend and lift your free leg higher, straighten the skating knee.

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My personal trainer is having me do A LOT of different stretches and exercises for the lower back (and the rest of the core) with a big exercise ball...you can google search tons of them.

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2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

a good avenue to find a PT is to call up your home club and ask them, or call up a highly recommended sports medicine MD office and ask them who they recommend (I was referred to an excellent sports MD by having my home club contact members who put me in touch with him, that MD then reffred me to an excellent PT practice that specializes in dancers and well as skaters)

i see you are in NJ ill pm you the name of my sports MD and PT practice.

Thanks Double! What'd I do without you.