Nick Perna and Debbie Prachar are featured on ice and on Pic skates.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvG7cb71nZY

US inline open champion Phyllis McKenzie is skating on the new P-73 Pic frame with Spinner wheels.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwReWdDzD-E

Hey John...

From your public profile you appear to know something about PIC skates. I've owned mine for about 7 years, use them regularly in the summer when there's no ice, and I have a question.

I see that new 3-wheel frames are offered. From a skater's perspective, how do they compare to my 4-wheel frames? Easier spinning? Maybe slower? What exactly are the differences in feel?

I've been curious since I saw them on the PIC skate website.

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Bill Schneider

Hi! I have skated freestyle on inlines. Virtually all of the World Class skaters are using the 3 wheel frames. (Men's champ Eric Traonouez http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EC2at5X8lA Ladies Champ Silvia Marangoni http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hfn0G1ZfA0 Past men's champ, Jayson Suttcliffe (nice clean 3flip! Wow!!) http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhDVKzapULA
Do not know of anyone at the top levels of inline who still use the 4 wheel frame. I heard the 4 wheel frames were harder to skate on. I used the 3 wheel frame (Snow Whites) when I skated inlines. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KENo51j6Byc
To be fair, though, I have only used the 3 wheel frame, so I can't compare other than to note that the World Class are all using the 3 wheel artistic frames.

Whether on 4 or 3 wheels, all Pic frames are rockered, therefore, at any given time you are skating on 2 wheels. Imagine the curve of your ice blade.

The 4 wheel frame comes in sizes 8.75 thru size 12.12 and is recommended for all skate sizes above a womens 8.

Many skaters in the smaller sizes also prefer 4 wheels.

The 3 wheel frame is made in sizes 7.5, 8.25, 8.75, 9.25 and 9.75 and is effective for skaters wearing a boot smaller than size 8. The skate is shorter, lighter, and quicker.

There are 2 3 wheel models the P-73 and P5-53.See products at www.picskate.com.

Additionally we offer a new wheel The 'Spinner' which has a soft inner layre. This allows for better grip and rebound. The 68mm ulta slim 'Spinner' is also faster despite its smaller size. It also reduces the spin angle, thus allowing for eaiser quicker spins.

US Open champion Phyllis McKinzie featured in the above video skates on a P-73 3 wheel frame with 'Spinner' wheels.

There is also a new pic, the power pic P-9 (patent pending),which is rounded and made of natural rubber. Jumps, spins, and footwork all benefit from this new shape. The natural rubber material also aids in eliminating slides when planting a toe for jumps.

The Snow White frame is favored by quad skaters. The competetions conducted by the quad roller skating federations peanalize skaters for using their toes. Cosequently most Pic skaters compete in the 'Paris Open' see www.skateparis.com. There are other new competetions the 'Montpillier Open' and the 'US Open' which follow ice rules.

Thanks! Because I'm larger than a woman's size 8 by a long shot, I'll just stay with the 4-wheel model. I go through wheels fast enough even though the load is spread out over 4 wheels.




I'll have to give some of the new wheels a spin. I REALLY disliked the Hyper wheels shown above. If they didn't shed rubber, they detached from the hubs. Awful.

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Bill Schneider

I tried them and really liked the Pic skates, but have no place to skate (live in the country on macadam roads). The roller rink doesn't allow anything except skating forward (no crossovers, spins, jumps etc. unless you are on roller hockey time-then it's only roller hockey moves...sigh).

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Yes, that is why I am returning to ice. Was on inline. Liked it better than ice. (Can't stand deep ice edges. Like to skate on "flats" much better.) But can't find anywhere to skate except outdoor skatepark (with skateboarders). Nasty!! Wasps, bottle caps, broken glass, puddles. Can't skate in the rain, etc... Only indoor rink that allowes artistic (what figure skating is called on roller) is over 60miles away (one direction).
So I gave up and came back to ice.

btw, The Italians rule this sport (artistic roller). The Europeans seem to take at least some interest in it. The South Americans are also stong, as are the Australlians. And it is starting to make gains in the East (Taiwan and China), well on inlines at least (not so much on quad there)....But the US just doesn't care. Here in the US, if you want to "figure skate" then you skate on ice. Peroid. (At least that's seems to be the public perception.) Can't count the number of people who saw me on inlines at the skatepark and told me I'm "pretty good" and should buy a pair of ice skates. GURRR!!!!!

Then people wonder why roller rinks are disappearing in the US! That's a lot of lost business, I expect. I'm thankful for the two nearby rinks (within 45 minutes drive time) I can use.

I have seen Italians practicing on inlines during one trip overseas in 2001. Impressive!

But I LOVE deep edges on ice though. Wish I had that adhesion on wheels.

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Bill Schneider

Skaters are finding ways.
In Paris, they skate at a local recreation center.
There are 2 or 3 clubs in Paris and another 2 or 3 clubs in France.
The Paris Open www.skateparis.com has been running for 5 years.

The club in Montpillier has over 180 members, not all figure.
The 2nd Montpillier open is scheduled for March 13 and 14. .

Also a club is getting together in the DC area. There is also another club opening at E.Carolina University in N.Carolina.

The first US open was conducted in Chicago last May and a 2nd event is planned for this April.

In Spain there are at least 5 clubs. There is even one on the Canary Islands.
They compete at the Paris Open.

There are also clubs in Cyprus, Japan, Taiwan, China, and several other countries.

Hi picskate! (It's me, firefly)

Yes, it is great that so many countries are serious about roller/inline. Wishing you and Joe the best getting more attention for artistic inline in the US (more clubs willing to give us practice time), and with the Open.

Don't know how some of the top inliners manage to do both. (Urquia, Batrin. Tranonuez even has 2axel on ice on youtube. Wow!!) Does Phyllis do both? (or just inline now?) Give them credit. Don't think I can mange it myself. Have been back on ice for about a week now. Deep edges driving me nuts! Skating on flats. Landing on flats (ouch!) Don't even ask about spins....

I was originally planning to skate both ice and inline in the summer (when skatepark reopens) and ice all year, but may have to rethink this. Don't want to throw off skating switching back and forth...... (Too dangerous on enterences to the higher jumps). Rolaboi once advised me that it is extremely difficult to do both at the same time. (Possible, but difficult, and it is best to choose one.) He was robably right. (Unfortunately.)

For 6 years I skated both ice and inline together, and I had no trouble at all switching between them. It's when I am off-ice for 4 months in the summer and doing only inlines that causes trouble for me. It takes a few weeks to get my "ice legs" back, especially for spins.

I must admit that I prefer ice for upper-level moves and elements, and don't practice jumps on my inlines much anymore.

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Bill Schneider

Bill,
You skated freestyle on ice and inlines?? Cool!!! Did you belong to a roller club and/or compete on roller or just skate for fun???
Not sure how you managed to switch back and forth between them...But admire you for it!
Axel is a completely different jump on inlines. The others are close, (especially now that roller allows skaters to jump edge jumps off toe stops. In the "old days" that was considered bad technique....)
Of course, landings are much different. Flat on inlines vs toe-edge on ice. I am landing flat now on ice and it is KILLING my back!! (Never did have the toe-edge ice landings down that well before and now it's even worse!) Hope this works out before stress fractures show up in lower back. Spins, of course, are much different. (Can't really spin very well on the inlines compared to ice no matter what frame your using. (Put together a video for an ice skater who asked me how to spin on inlines. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo9cNDOExdc
It was the best I could do at the skatepark.
Now back on ice and spins are......weird......Getting dizzy. Been so long since I actually went around more than a few revs....Wow!!! Dizzy.... Gotta get the salchow takeoffs off my deathdrop and flying camel. (Need them for inlines. No pick to catch.)

The difference in technique between now and "the old days" may be due to the difference between inlines and quads. You can't "rock" up to the toe on quads because there's no rocker, so it probably isn't very pretty to jump off the toe stop on quads. When you say that roller now allows leaving the floor via the toe stop, do you mean on quads also, or just on inlines?

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Pandora - WOW! Those are some impressive spins shown in your video.

I see where you are coming from now - you're talking about an order of magnitude better skill than what I have.

FWIW, here's one of my meager spins on (4-wheel) PICs...
http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/...ic_spin_09.avi

For someone like me who does a handful of single jumps and simple spins, I was able to go back and forth between ice and inline with no problem. The only reason I don't switch back and forth now is because the rink times overlap.

However, when you're at a high level (as you proved to be in your video), I can see where the subtle differences between ice and inline could be a factor.

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Bill Schneider

Bill,
Thanks for watching my video.

Yes, on the doubles it gets tricky. Timing a little different. Edges slightly different. Scary going back and forth.....Also, the spins are different (eg. on inlines salchow takeoffs are necessary, but on ice are considered bad technique.)

Saw your video. Very good spin. Well centred and controlled. Great to find ice skaters who have tried roller and/or are positive about it!! A lot of ice skaters think it's "inferior". Makes me mad!! When I first started ice (3 or 4 years ago) a coach told me I "looked like a roller skater out there." I said thanks, but she said it "wasn't a compliment."

You are lucky to have a roller rink within a reasonable distance with actual artistic practice times available. The one roller rink left in my town only wants birthday parties and public sessions. (Can't blame them, that's where they get their $). Told me to my face they don't want "that kind of skating" on the rink. Nice. The club 60 miles away has artistic roller once a week (Sundays). There is also one night (Wed?) but I can't get up there because I work nights. Ice has practice time all day long everyday. Don't mean to be a traitor to roller, but you see my problem. Feel horrible about deserting inline for ice but have to face the facts.

dbny,
I think they are now allowing double and triple edge jumps off the toe even on quads. Back in the eighties (when I skated quad as a teen) this wasn't allowed. But now, I think it is. I know it is allowed/necessary on the inlines. Some of the inline-to-ice even advocate landing on their toestop (as on the pick-edge of ice)!!!! Personally, I don't like this style because it pitches the skater forward and results in slow/no ride out of the edge. Also extremely difficult to do a combo like this. I always landed flat (like on regular quad.) But then that is what I'm used to and I'm continuing to do so on ice....(Ouch!)...So to each his (or her) own......

And like pickskate said, some of the inliners are spinning on the toestops ("ice style") as opposed to the edge (roller style). Personally, I do both on inlines. (Roller edge for OB and toestop front wheel for IB). Seems like there are no solid rules for technique when it comes to inline. And on quad the "old timers" bemoan the deteriation of skill level/sloppiness which has "allowed" the toe assists on double/triple sals and loops......Don't really have a position myself. (Not a big fan of rules. ) I say anyway you can do a triple and survive is probably a good way.....

Luca the King of Roller. The triple loop is at 2:03. (Believe it is clean off the edge. If there is a toe stop takeoff, it's very quick.) Awesome program on Italian outdoor rink. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJIEvwO3fHc Luca is incredible. But a lot of skaters are also using the toe, so......