I have MK Professional Blades, and it feels like I cannot get to my toe pick.

Waltz, Salchow is hard for me because of it. I go up nice and high, but I'm far backwards on the landing because I cannot hit my toe pick to take off 90% of the time.

The blade feels like a roller coaster.

What is the deal with that?

Are there other decent blades that won't break the pocket (maybe in a similar price range +maybe around $50 or so) that don't feel as... steep?

Also having trouble with them on spins. Keep rocking back and forth on them.

Maybe it's just me, but I think they're destroying my edges as well. But, like I said, that may be my fault

Is it possible the sharpener messed up?

You might look for a lower-cost blade with a 8 foot rocker rather than 7' as you have now - that should feel more stable and I find it easier for spinning although others feel differently. The more expensive blades have bigger toepicks that are easier to trip yourself up on, but yeah, also harder for picked jumps.

You're not talking about picked jumps though - but of landings. I'm wondering if the real problem isn't that you're ending up at a funny angle in the air from the takeoff... Perhaps try reach your landing foot back a bit farther and make sure the toe is pointed. I'm not sure it's bad to be farther back on a landing as long as you're not falling backwards. You don't want to be too far forward and making a terrible noisy scratch with your toepick across the ice.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

I want to ask... Are your skates too big for you? That will explain the rocking and that the toepick is too far in front etc.

I love Ultima Blades. Legacy and Protege are comparable. Legacy has cross-cut picks but not Protege, that's the difference.

There could be a lot of factors at play in this.

How long have you had these blades?
What blades did you have before these?

New blades take getting used to, especially the different rocker profiles.

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Katz

Saved by Synchro!
I was over it, now I'm into it again !

Skates/Blades are the correct size.

The rocking is because the blade has quite a pronounced curve to it. It feels very far in front not because it's physically out there, but I almost have to fall forward to get to them, because they are like half an inch off the ice. (Excuse the runon). It's not really far out, it's just that the curve makes the distance feel like it is. Even moreso when you're doing a Walt-type takeoff coming all the way from the back of the blade, because of the blade's curvature. See below (my skate), this is how the rocker curves. That seems rather aggressive.



On a Waltz-type takeoff I can squat a little and somewhat get myself to it by sort of really throwing myself forward. That still feels a bit volatile and unsafe for me, though... Not to mention squatting it like that is bad technique and my coach would probably laugh and cry all at the same time if she seen me doing that :<

On a Salchow that's just not possible. Because of how far the toepick feels. I do my 3 or Mohawk and try to pivot onto the toe, and I just can't get there. I'm getting stuck like behind the toepick because it's so far to go (or rather, so high to climb?) to get up to it.

I tend to spin under hte MK Logo at the front. Perhaps if I spun like 0.5-1.0 inches further up that would help a little, I'll try that, and hopefully I don't topple over like a top.

Because I'm having trouble getting to the toe on takeoffs, I'm having trouble getting to the toe on the landings. Also, when I do hit the bottom toe pick, since the blade curves so much I tend to get stuck on the one inch of blade behind the toe pick, which leads to me almost done a Charlotte Spiral or Illusion going backwards on a curve. My coach did mention that I tend to land a bit stiff knee'd, so that may be a component of that issue. I'm still having trouble actually landing on that pick, though, which makes saving jumps which are slightly off-axis (especially to the inside of the circle) borderline impossible, since I can't really "place myself on the landing edge," if that makes any sense...

One of the hockey guys thought that was cool today (the almost illusion). It wasn't.

Maybe if I try to keep my leg lower on landings it would remedy that a bit. I tend to hold my leg up almost parallel to the ice in my landing position (cause it looks better, and I can, and it's easier for me to see how nice a nicely stretched/turned out leg/foot looks in my reflection in the glass at the rink, etc. etc.).

I've had them about 7 months. I can do most things in them no problem (well my spins suck but that's more a factor of not practicing them as much). It's the jump takeoffs and landings that are griefing me at the moment.

Looking at the blades, looks identical to my old Mk21's except for the toepicks. This is what, a 7' rocker? Maybe you need something with an 8'? Comparing them to the site ( http://www.mkblades.com/mk-blades.html ), the blade doesn't seem to be missing any toepicks (actually saw someone take off toepicks once cuz they were in the way, and twice more through sharpening errors)... It's a mystery.

Yep. I even got to take them out of the box when my skates came in at the pro shop. They still had the greasy stuff on the bottom in the groove prior to sharpening.

EDIT: Yea, the curvature of the blade on the site is suspiciously docile.

Is there a way to tell when a blade was manufactured? Notice the MK logo on the website is a different color than the one on my blades. Mine is probably just worn out from being on the ice and being wiped off like 1000 times, though.

There was that post a while ago.. woman had the same problem with her pros.. and it turned out she had like a 5 or 6 foot rocker, manufacturer defect. I mean, really. That does not look like a 7' rocker to me. I have CorAces which are supposed to be similar to Pros, and Aces have a 7' rocker, and my blades do not have that curvy heel rocker and aggressive 'climb' to the toepick. I've never seen any 7' blades look like that.
Take the blades to a pro or contact MK.

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Right Brain: In the distant future, I will land all of the doubles.
Left Brain: HAHAHAHAHA
Left Brain: You can't even do a backspin.
Right Brain: ...

figurekb on YouTube.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I love your signature. That sounds like my own thought process.

__________________
Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

I've got tracings of the rocker of two pairs of Aces on my web site. If you click the small thumbnail, you'll get a larger picture.

Download it and print it landscape. If the resolution tags remain intact (I expect they will), you'll get a life-size print out. Place it on the edge of a table, position your own skates on top, and compare.

The tracings are near the bottom of this page...

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/.../profiler.html

It is just a data point for your investigation, but it's a place to start.

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Bill Schneider

I was the one with the MK Pro problems who started the thread you're talking about.

GoSveta, the pic of your blades looks just like my new MK Pros did. Even when I got MK to send me a pair that did have a 7' rocker, the heel lift/rise to the toe was just impossible for me to deal with. And I'd been skating in MK Pros for decades.

The way it appears MK has resdesigned the blade made it pretty much impossible for me to jump or spin on it. I'd never skated on anything like it before in all my years of skating. Like I'd mentioned in the old thread, I'd compared my new MK Pros to the old, unused display model at the skate shop, and they looked nothing alike.

I'm in a Coronation Comet now (8 1/2' rocker) and that rocker profile is much more like what I was used to in the past.

Are you in knew boots too? How knew are your boots? Are you getting enough bend in your boots at the ankles? I have this problem with only my right skate but it's getting better. Talk to your coach for some ideas on how to get more bend in your boots.

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I am a nomadic adult skater who is a member of Windsor FSC (Skate Windsor) WOS SC again since Sept. 1st, 2008.

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Thanks!

So the blade's really supposed to be like that, after MK redesigned? Well- a lot of skaters are going to be let down- this blade doesn't seem to be working well for anybody.

__________________
Right Brain: In the distant future, I will land all of the doubles.
Left Brain: HAHAHAHAHA
Left Brain: You can't even do a backspin.
Right Brain: ...

figurekb on YouTube.

If you look on the site, Sveta's blades look similarly curved to the Two Stars blades on the website, which supposedly have the same 7' rocker as the much less curved (on the photo, at least) professionals.

TBH, these blades do resemble my old MK21's a lot in terms of blade curvature even though though the toepicks and name are different, and I had soooo much problems with the mk21s. Eventually they just went and bent, they were mounted off-centre at the toes as later turned out (no wonder I couldn't spin in them!) so I guess I can't blame MK for that, but still.

Now the MK21 is *supposed* to have a 7' rocker and the Coronation Aces are supposed to have a 7' rocker as well but I swear, there was a giant difference in how easy it was to do 3-turns on MK21s (and not so on Coronation Aces!), but how much more stable I was on Coronation Aces on landings and edges. It's not all about the rocker and ROH it would seem.

I got the boots and the skates together. I don't think the boots have anything to do with it. Even though they don't seem to have creases in them, I can get down pretty low in them XD

The issue is getting up to the toe pick. The boot/blade is the right size, but since the rocker curves so much it almost feels like I have to fall forward to the tips of my toes to get on them securely, which actually doesn't feel secure or controlled at all.

My arms and leg and coming through, but I cannot get any type of decent timing on the jump because of this issue.

I'm probably going to run this question by my skate guy, and likely look into getting them replaced with something else. In the meantime, I've sent an email to MK. I can't believe these people don't have a 1-800 number to call... ...

The way I feel at the moment... These blades are good for doing turns on the ice, and not much else for me.

Another thought on the new boots, is has the heel height changed? My new boots have a lower heel and it makes the blades (which is the same as before) feel very different and effects my balance on the blade rocker as my weight isn't quite in the right place.

You could probably try Ultima blades. They’re very good.

I jump so badly I can't knowledgeably comment on jumping with your blade.

But look at the pictures from

http://www.mkblades.com/mk-blades.html

Click on the picture of your blade.

I think (but may be wrong) that your blades look like the tails have been rounded off more at the back than the ones in MK's picture. Is it possible your sharpener re-profiled the blades, to be a bit more like hockey skates? If I had your blades, I would be more likely to fall backwards. I personally like blades with flatter tails. A good sharpener could modify the blade profile to be more flat in the back, though it would waste some metal and therefore blade lifetime, so don't ask for that unless it is what you defintely want.

In addition, I think your sharpener killed the "sweet spot" (a cusp or length of small rocker diameter, usually below the ball of the foot, where it is easier to spin stably, just as it is easier to spin on the bottom of a top). A sweet spot also gives you a place that you can feel where the blade changes, which you may have gotten used to. A good sharpener could re-establish the sweet spot. See my boot page for a discussion of how to emphasize a sweet spot where you want it. I may be wrong - sweet spots are quite subtle, and are hard to see in photographs.

On the other hand, if you have been using this sharpener for years, it isn't likely he/she suddenly changed the way he/she does things, unless he/she got a new helper to do the job.

MK sometimes gets blade shapes wrong, so it doesn't have to be your sharpener's fault.

I didn't realize you could contact MK if they get the shape wrong! May I suggest you send or FAX them a photocopy of the blade shape? It is easier to see the complete shape on a direct contact photocopy than on a photograph, though be sure not to scratch the photocopier glass.

If you are having trouble reaching your toe pick, removing the first toe pick would only make the problem worse, so don't.

BTW, if your old blades had worn down, it was probably easier to reach your toe pick both because you had less metal on the rest of the blade, so the picks stuck out more relative to the rest of the blade, and because sharpeners often extend the usable blade lifetime by flattening the rocker curve.

I like fsk8r's theory. If the heels are higher, or the new boots have more back to front slant in the footbed than your old boots, you need to point your toes more to reach the toepick.

You can compensate by applying athletic tape under the front part the insoles, to make them thicker in front. This will mean you have to point your toes less. Be sure that you keep a smooth surface, so there isn't a sudden point where your feet feel an edge that cuts into the bottom of your feet. Of course, the tape will also change the front/back balance of your blades, and it will make it easier to accidentally touch your toe picks, so you may or may not like the effect. It will also reduce the amount of space available for your toes - if that is a problem, you would be better off creating a really thin insole out of something cheap like felt, and starting from there to create a boot bottom shape that meets all your needs.

If you haven't grown happy with your new skates after a few days of skating in them, I would strongly suggest you talk to your sharpener and boot fitter, rather than making changes on your own. Since these are new, they are probably willing to do corrections for free. A good proud professional would welcome the opportunity to make you happier. Though if the sharpener did indeed severely re-profile the blade without being asked, you might find someone better to work on the blade. And if the pros can't figure it out, you have to do things yourself. And do wait those several days - many people find that's all it takes to be happy with new boots and blades.

Isn't it amazing that differences of a few hundredths of an inch in blade and boot shape can perceptibly affect the way we skate?

Good luck!

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Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

I've been most surprised about how heel height affects things. Now I'm getting used to a lower heel height I'm liking it. Makes it a lot easier to roll up onto the toe-pick when jumping but really messed with my spins.

But I'm really amazed how moving the blade a millimeter means that you can go from having no outside edge to having a beautiful one. I've had blades crooked before and not noticed but this time I could barely hold an outside edge.

It's a fickle business this skating.

Another thing that would make it hard to reach your toe pick was if the front of the front mounting plate was closer to the front of your skate than the back of the back mounting plate was to the back of the skate. In principle, moving the mount back or forward has much the same effect as placing padding under the toe or heel, though I haven't heard of any people changing the mount position that way, and I've never tried it. You would need to reshape the outsole shape, or use shims to experiment, because the outsole shape is non-coplaner.

As far as I can tell from your picture, that mount position isn't your problem, but one could only tell from a picture of the bottom of your skates.

But looking at the picture again - your rocker is almost flat in the middle, and curves a lot at the ends. The high curvature at the back is particularly puzzling, as it is not reflected in the picture from MK's site. No really definite sweet spot, but still, rocker changes. The big curvature up front is near the center of the hole in the mounting plate. So that is where the current blade shape is best designed to spin.

I don't know if you trust your sharpener enough to move the effective sweet spot back to where you prefer to spin, or what your coach would say to where you like to spin, but it is possible. In fact, it is possible to change the rocker profile entirely, at which point you've got completely different blades.

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Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

Guy from MK responded to my Email (kinda quick, it was stuck in my Outbox until last night O.o) and said he'll call me to discuss the issue today.

Talking to the rep is a good start. See if they can recommend a good blade technician as well.

I don't think it's the mounting - if the blade were too far forward, you'd be spinning on your toe, not the instep area. However, you should check to see if the blade's mounted straight down the middle with a straightedge. If there's a bend, you'll have a different edge in the front than the back and I always found that spins were very scraped.

From what you're describing, you need a fully qualified skate technician to measure the rocker radius and check for level/balance. There's a few tools they can use to see if the blade has high spots and dips along its length.


You should make a tracing of the blade's profile on paper before you let any sharpening take place, just so that you have a record of what you were skating on.

Good luck!

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I just looked, and the heel height on these skaters seem to be almost half an inch higher than the Riedells I was wearing before.

It it possible that the problem may be because of exacerbated by me holding back a little going into the jumps? Should I be a bit (or a lot) more aggressive going into them? Only Issue I have with that is overrotating and falling, since it will make me jump way higher than I need to to rotate singles. I'm a bit fallphobic.

I put one layer of moleskin on top of the front of my superfeet insoles and will try that next time I go to the rink and see if that helps. Don't wanna pile too much on right now.

Thanks for all the replies. Don't think any post in the thread was devoid of helpful information

EDIT: Here's a pen tracing of the right blade. The left one is virtually identical. It doesn't look as pronounced on the tracing. Hrm...



I hope these images aren't destroying someone's internet bandwidth, or something. If so lemme know and I'll change them to links.

As I'm going the other way, from a high heel to a low heel, you'll have to translate my experience into what you might need to try. For my waltz jump I find I've got a lot more space to rock up onto the toe pick than I'm used to having. This actually means that I'm holding back (I'm a fallphobic as well) as I'm expecting a pick and then not finding it (I had initial problems with 3turns and mohawks but that might just have been from not having broken them in much).
I can see that being used to having to rock up a long way, going to a higher heel and discovering that you don't have to go so far would be very frightening.
What I'm not sure about is how this heel height bit translates into picking for toe-jumps. I suspect I'm pointing my toes a lot more now, especially as I've managed to miss the toe-pick.
My biggest problem really has been spinning as I've found that my weight has moved back because of the lower heel height and I'm deliberately moving it forward now to find the sweet spot (the sweet spot's not moved but my body weight has).
I know that all my problems are heel height as I've switched to exactly the same blades (they're slightly longer on the new boots) and I compared the blades before I fitted the new ones. I was cursing the blades when I first used them as they feel so very different from what I was used to.
I've still not properly switched over (I'm promising myself next week) so I'm still getting used to them, but I've been wearing them once a week or so for the last two months and have got used to the change in heel height and don't seem to have too many problems if I switch mid practice session (once I refind my spin!). I think a lot of my issues are just not fully being confident in the new boots and not having enough knee bend.

Hope this helps.

Incidentally my skate technician was talking about putting rubber heels under the blade to raise the heel height (if I was really unhappy, he'd do this to match the old boots), but we didn't discuss what to do if you wanted to do the reverse.